Could I get away with a small Senco compressor and an HVLP system?

[RC]

I've been wanting to get some air tools for years and every time I've looked at compressors it seems that a do-it-all size of a compressor is too large for my available shop space. Therefore I've lately been looking at point products for the use cases that I have for air based tools which basically boils down to two main uses and an optional three others:

Primary uses:
1. Finish nailing (no need for construction type of nailing)
2. Spaying lacquer/paint (most likely no wall painting i.e. Latex, but can't guarantee this of course, my crystal ball is a bit foggy...  [tongue])

Optional nice to have extras:
3. Car wheel bolt opening and closing when changing tires
4. Air pump for footballs, lilo's, tires, etc.
5. Cleaning dust off work pieces/equipment in the shop with compressed air

I've always considered the green Bosch/Wagner integrated sprayers (like the Bosch PFS 55) as a consumer gimmick, but now reading and looking at videos about compact HVLP systems like the Fuji Q4 Gold and the Apollo 1050VR and having seen the small Senco nailing compressors like the 1010 and larger 0968 packaged with a Senco Finish Pro 11 nailer for a reasonable price I'm wondering if I could get separate tools for the primary two needs and maybe stretch the small compressor for the optional nice to have's.

I've always ended up at looking at ginormous tanked compressors because paint spraying requires ridiculous amounts of air and would kill a small compressor next to no time, but if I could take the painting/lacquering (both wood finishing and car paint/lacquer) out of the equation with a dedicated HVLP spraying system could I do the other four things with one of the small Senco units? How large gauge nail guns do you reckon the two Senco units could run in a no hurry single person use? How about running a bolt gun from one one tire at a time? I've understood that they require quite a lot of air to run properly too?

Would spraying a deck with deck oil or Pinotex to a fence make any sense with an HVLP-sprayer or are these tasks that are still easier to do with a traditional paint brush and an extension rod to it?

 

[Brice Burrell]

There's really no way to make a small compressor do what you are attempting.  A small compressor like the small Senco would only work for the finish nailer, inflating balls and cleaning.  You'd need a larger compressor for air tools like an impact wrench for removing lug nuts on your car.  I can't help be thing you'd be much happier with a dedicated HVLP system and a small to medium sized compressor.   

 

[Rocky]

The Dewalt 1/4" 20 volt cordless impact driver is excellent for removing lug nuts (used yesterday to do brakes).

 

[RC]

Well, I have three cars and only two of them get a regular winter/summer tire change twice a year (third one is my VW Bug that's museum registered and only sees daylight on beautiful sunny summer days so it runs only on summer tires) so a bolt gun isn't so much of a need than a nice to have vanity. I've managed to change my tires with a X-wrench and muscle power for the last 20'odd years so I think I can still do it by hand in the future.  [cool]

One of the local hardware stores has a finish nailer package of a Paslode Proline 160 and finish nailer FN 1850 for a reasonable price, but I couldn't really find any info on the compressor... I know Paslode is a brand name in gas nailers, but is this set any good/better than the Senco ones would be interesting to know - at least it has a 9l (~2 gallons) tank vs. the 3.8l (~1 gallon) one on the Senco 1010.

Found the the Senco kit on Amazon that I saw at the local store as well. And the Paslode kit seems to be some sort of a Nordic kit since I only got hits in Finland and Denmark on it here's a link  to my local stores description of it.

What I'm looking size wise is something not much larger than a couple of systainer 4's so that it can be storable on shed shelves since the floor space in my shed is at such a premium that nothing more can fit in there. That pretty much knock-out anything larger than the two smallest Senco's that are available in local hardware stores for me or some other 'space miracle' that I don't know of yet.

Correct me if I've got the wrong impression, but I've understood that Senco and Paslode are good quality air tool manufacturers, right?

 

[tiralie]

I can't help be thing you'd be much happier with a dedicated HVLP system and a small to medium sized compressor.   

Agreed.
Reiska:
Because you guys run 220, I would have thought that you could get some small >5hp,100% duty cycle compressors, that can do 8 or 9 cfm @ 40-50 psi without too much problem.

One of the painting contractors in the area runs a pressure pot and a cheap automobile spray gun off a DeWalt 1.6 HP 4.5 Gallon Compressor to paint exteriors. He burns out a compressor every 9-12 months.
I think it's a total waste, but that's his business model...buy cheap use it till it's toast, go to the store and buy a new one.
Going to buy a new compressor would drive me nuts.
Tim

 

[mastercabman]

I have used the senco 1010 with my jr CAT sprayer,But only for touch up.
The compressor does not keep up and you get uneven spray pattern because of psi drop.
I now use the rolair jc10 and i have use it to do small spray project.works really great.But no production please!

 

[RC]

For some reason the compressors here have a maximum power rating for a single phase 230V socket connectible model is about 2.2kW (3hp or 230V@9A) and anything larger is built around 3-phase 400V electricity. I guess this stems from professional establishments having 3-phase power always whereas most home garages are wired only for 1-phase 230V behind a 10A or 16A fuse so the manufacturers are doing their hobby models according to the smaller standard fuse and professional models are made for 3-phase electricity by default.

So the largest single phase models available (since I don't have 3-phase available) would have specs like this one which translate to something like tank: 6.6 gallons, power: 3 hp, airflow: 7.23 cfm @ 87 psi counter pressure. Of course you could get larger tank capacities than 25 litres (6.6 gal) to give you a longer time between refill duty cycles but the engine would still be the same.

The unfortunate reality for me is that size wise the missus has overruled the entry of anything that large into the house hold (physical tank size that is) so I can't discreetly get one and stash it in the shed [sad]

That's the reason I'm looking into taking the painting away from the compressor with a HVLP system and seeing if I could find a small size/ reasonably good quality & performance compressor for mainly nailing purposes and the couple of other nice-to-have things if possible. Portability is a must too since in the winter time I will be carrying my tools to the houses hobby room that's some 100 yards away from my front door.

Sure it would be nice to be able to sand blast cars and use air sanders, impact wrences and such, but I've resigned to the fact that I don't have the facilities to do anything like that properly and therefore I'll leave whole car painting to professionals who have the painting booths, closed air circulation, air drying appliances, etc. available.

Unfortunately I'm a total n00b with air tools so I don't know is there a tangible difference between a compressor with a 1 gal, 2 gal  or a 4 gal one for the applications I have in mind other then the longer gap between refill cycles that comes with more tank capacity.

 

[VesaS]

How about Wagner W650 -type systems?
There are many manufactures for this kind of equipment.

I have W650 and it performs well, my skills are the limiting factor..

Vesa

PS. I have a small compressor too

 

[Tinker]

I have the Senco (small compressor /don't have the size available at the moment) for stapling and small sized nailing.  For outside work on small landscaping equipment, i have the Rolair JC 10.  It is great for what i use it for but don't know anything about spraying.  I have had much larger units that are no where near as satisfactory for removing & retightening nuts and bolts as the buildup time is much longer period than with my little JC 10.  That compressor takes less than a minute to get back to full steam from zero pressure. 

Another responder stated he uses the same compressor for small paint jobs.  Maybe others have more info. 

I did a review of the Rolair JC 10 here on the FOG
Tinker

 

[Kev]

I keep looking at bigger and bigger compressors. It's a real trap, the old "what if I need to do X" question gets you every time.

I've convinced myself that I need 300 litres per minute of free air delivery with about a 60+ litre tank ... needing a 3hp motor to crank it out. If I wanted to I could spray something significant without running out of air with this size.

Stupid thing is, the other 95% of the time I could use something half the size and quieter. Is the trick to hire something on the odd occasion? But then a week of hire is more than the cost differential [sad]

I feel incomplete without a compressor - I only recently said goodbye to my old 30 litre 2hp unit ... there was a fair bit of rust and I didn't trust it!

 

[Harvey]

Well, I have three cars and only two of them get a regular winter/summer tire change twice a year (third one is my VW Bug that's museum registered and only sees daylight on beautiful sunny summer days so it runs only on summer tires) so a bolt gun isn't so much of a need than a nice to have vanity. I've managed to change my tires with a X-wrench and muscle power for the last 20'odd years so I think I can still do it by hand in the future.  [cool]

I use a 24 inch breaker bar for this. It's much easier than using a lug wrench.

 

[Tinker]

I have used a breaker bar with pipe added (the pipe for breaking tough nuts lose) for lug nuts.
But i like my little Rolair much better.  [poke]
Tinker

 

[gnlman]

I had the same issue. Wanted a compressor to do it all......had a big compressor and then my wife gave me a small one for my birthday. I found that 99 percent of the time I used the small one....(pin nailer, stapler, cleaning, inflating) Got rid of the big one and bought an electric impact to handle changing tires on 4 cars. It has a built in torque setting and works like a charm......big compressor is gone now and I now have a Makita Mac2400 in the shop.....quiet and very nice. I made the decision that I will paint with HVLP which helped make the decision to get the large compressor out of my shop much easier. Now I have room for a decent large dust collection system!!

 

[Tinker]

The problem I found with large compressors was that the larger the tank size, the longer it took to build pressure back up.  It was nice to have the longer term capacity, but when pressure was too low to do the job at hand, i had to release air to get down to the coming back on point. The compressors had a range between cut off and coming back on.  If I raised the low setting, the high setting would be too high for the use to which the tools were to be used.

With my little Rolair, the tank pressure drops much quicker, but it builds back up much faster.  much less inconvenience of waiting for air at right level.
Tinker

 

[Alan m]

The problem I found with large compressors was that the larger the tank size, the longer it took to build pressure back up.  It was nice to have the longer term capacity, but when pressure was too low to do the job at hand, i had to release air to get down to the coming back on point. The compressors had a range between cut off and coming back on.  If I raised the low setting, the high setting would be too high for the use to which the tools were to be used.

With my little Rolair, the tank pressure drops much quicker, but it builds back up much faster.  much less inconvenience of waiting for air at right level.
Tinker

i saw a post on a forum about this issue. one member conected his/her large compresser to a smaller tank and fed it from the larger tank. the larger compresser was turned up so that it filled up straight away . a regulater betwwen the two tanks kept the pressure in the smaller tank at what ever presure was needed. they said it worked well for low pressure jobs , also you can take air straight out of the first tank for other tools

 

[mwildt]

The compressor you found from biltema would fit the bill for regular hobby work including an impact wrench. Nice to have it oil lubed for that kind of operations since its more quiet. That said a good filter is key. Tank wise its ok, just let it catch up once in a while. Impact wrench see if you can get something similar to Ingersoll-Rand 2135TI. That impact hasn't let me down yet.

I did tire changes with 24" breaker bar etc, for years, but its nice with the impact when you have to do 2 cars twice a year. Also comes handy for all other automotive repair work.

oil less compressors are nice as well, but they are very very loud. That said you should be able to find a small one with some nailers as a combo kit. Though its only good for nailers and filling a tire. Forget about an impact wrench.

From my experience get something like what you found as a minimum. Anything less wouldn't work for what you want. Spraying I would stick with the Fuji style you mentioned for wood working. Latex spraying just rent one the few times you need it.

 

[Tinker]

That little Roliar JC 10 is oilless AND quiet. Very quiet
I am using it for all sorts of tire (lug nuts) work.
Car, mowers, large and small, tractor and even truck tires.
I have only had to get out the breaker bar with extension for loosening an obstinate nut once.
Tinker

 

[Christopher Fitch]

I can't provide you with answers...but I can give you info on what works for me.

I have a medium sized compressor (4.5 HP 26 gal - HP rating is a lie of course)  and I have a  porter cable pancake (1.5 HP 6 gallon).
PC 6 Gallon Compressor - Mine is slightly older.

I have the bigger compressor in a cabinet....I treat it like a stationary but I hardly use it. I could easily spray with it but it's a hassle to spray in the shop (Mine is small...13' x 19').

I have this HVLP gun:
Wagner HVLP Conversion Gun

and it works fine with my pancake compressor. I can even spray latex with proper thinning and the correct tip set. Last weekend, I just sprayed a coat of primer on a loft bed I'm finishing.

Also I have a full set of nailers: Framing, Finish, Brad, Staple, and Pin Nailer. I also use my pancake for airing up things and blowing out dust.

I don't use it for an air powered wrench but I have plenty of other tools for that.  I'd advise getting a pancake. I think you will be happy with it.

 

[Tinker]

I had a pancake years ago when i had a large crew working.  I could keep two wrenches going.  every morning, the crew had to change mower blades and clean off mower debris from decks.  My son used it for some spray painting of equipment also.  That compressor lasted for several years until a pinhole developed in the tank.  For a one man operation, i think that would work for anything Reiska wants to do.
Tinker

 

[sancho57]

Im a little late for this thread. But I use a accuspray spray gun with my 4 gal emglo compressor. It works great.

Its called a versamax.  Since Accuspray was bought by 3M I dont think they make this gun anymore.

How ever Im sure there are guns out there that can be used with a small compressor.