crosscutting with festool guide rail

[russ_1380]

Hi guys

I've just made a quick shelving rack for my garage with my domino and ts saw, rail.

They are great tools but I've come across a slight problem (me not the tool).  Perhaps you guys could offer some advice/tips:

When cutting a square panel, I scribe the shape and use my rail.  I can get the two edges near enough parallel (or as near as you can factoring the human error; ie positioning the rail).  That works great.  However when I want to cut the adjacent? edge (the one at 90 degrees, a crosscut if you like) I struggle to maintain an accurate cut.

The reason i struggle is I have the long saw board (1400) and say I want to cross cut a section that is 12inch wide, i find it hard to keep everything lined up correctly.  I scribe the line using a square to ensure true 90 degree mark up, but my human error always makes the cut not as accurate as i d like.  Its because the rail is too long for a comfortable cut.

I suppose the MFT table would be the answer for making true, accurate 90 degree cosscuts, but this is way out of budget for the time being.

Are there any shorter rails I could use?  say

 

[tbellemare]

There's an 800 mm guide rail. There's also an Angle Unit for Guide rails.

Though the Parallel Guides are meant to measure off the ends of the work piece, you can use only one of them and it makes a very accurate and useful square when abutted to the side of the work piece. It makes your guide rail sort of like a big framing square.

Tom

 

[score0matic]

Hey R

I haven't found a good solution yet.  but I have often wanted a short rail my self. Just long enough to use on 2xs and trim.
The idea being you dont have to dig out yous smcs at the job site just to make a cut or two.
If you are up for it... I would be happy to pick up an fs 800 and slice it in 1/2  we can split the cost of the rail $63.00 and shipping it to you.  Total cost should be less than $40
IMO There is nothing wrong with modifying a tool For the better of your work.  If we do this, i will mount a permanent 90 deg lip to the bottom of mine.

PM me if you want to do this
Thanks Craig

 

[score0matic]

Russ I just realized you were in England,  Shipping may be just a tiny bit more : :.  If any one else wants to cut one up let me know.

Craig

 

[russ_1380]

cheers guys

I bought the parallel guide system but sent it straight back, i couldn't get on with it at all. I think its best suited to the MFT, if Ihad the table then I coul perhaps of got on with it.

Scorematic, thats a very kind offer, but I'm in the UK so I guess shipping would make it unfeasible.  

How would you mount a 90 degree bracket?  That sounds a top idea to me!  I'm just not sure how to fix it to the rail, any ideas?

cheers

Russ

 

[tbellemare]

The Festool Angle Unit is what they sanction for registering their guide rails at an angle (90 degrees included) to the work piece.

They don't suggest using the Parallel Guides. Mine are quite useful as I described above but I'm told they aren't all so they don't sanction them for that use.

Tom

 

[Aegwyn11]

I got the guide rail accessory kit:

http://www.festoolusa.com/products/guide-rails/kits-and-other-accessories/guide-rail-accessory-kit-492396.html

Includes the tool Tom referred to (works great!), along with a few other nifty things all in a Sys1.

 

[sw1211]

This attachment from Dewalt works well with the Festool tracks.

http://www.cpopowertools.com/products/dws5027.html

 

[score0matic]

OFF TOPIC
By the way I reconciled my name on several different forums to charimon. having a different id here and there didn't matter much while i was a lurker but now that i am starting to post more i need to have a single identity  

ON TOPIC
I think the best way to do it is:
1.  for your 90 deg stop use alum 1.1/2" wide 1/2" thick by 10" long
2   rout or mill a 1 17/33 wide slot (triming just the bottom protrusions, rubber and al,) at 90 deg  on the bottom of your "Shorty" rail about 5 " up from the starting side
2.1 drill and countersink 2 screw holes in the rail with matching holes (taped for  #8 by 32) in the stop.
3 mount the cross bar
4 check for and adjust for square by the cut and flip method
5 when adjusted secure with with industrial mounting CA glue

Thanks Craig

 

[russ_1380]

Thanks everyone

The angle guide looks useful.  I forgot Festool made that.  I saw it a few months back and wondered if it would lock up tight enough to ensure a nice true 90 degree.  I think someone used a bit of sandpaper inbetween the two pieces and it seemed to work.

I may try it.

I am leaning towards the mft now!  What have i started looking at tools i can't really afford lol!   ;D

Anyway, the trouble I have is the mft is around ?400-500 over here in the UK.  That money is really for my future  table saw (budget of around ?800-900).  I know the pros and cons of each, but i definitely want a table saw in the near future for cabinet making, where dead on accuracy is a must.

The other appealing bit of the mft though, as well as crosscutting, I could use it for routing dado rails (for shelves, drawers etc).

For mft users: can you rip as well as crosscut?  I.e. move the saw guide 90 degrees whilst keeping the fence in the same position?  
                     

I need to think......

 

[tbellemare]

For mft users: can you rip as well as crosscut?  I.e. move the saw guide 90 degrees whilst keeping the fence in the same position?

Yes, you can or you can leave the guide in the same position and angle plus move the fence.

Tom

 

[russ_1380]

cheers Steve,

Does that one fix rigidly to Festool tracks or does it flop around a bit?

I think I'd prefer to have a fixed 90 degree stop, as tbh I never really cut anything else at the mo.  (I'm a beginner lol).  At least then it is minimising the risk of slop or movement.

I'm not very good at machining accurately so I might ask a friend to see if he could fix me an ally bracket at a true 90 degree angle.  (He is an engineering college teacher, so has access to a full engineer's shop).

Its all good advice though people, than you

 

[MarkF]

Try lightly tapping the corner of a razor blade into the line at each end to act as stops for the cutting strip to gently butt against.  Clamp the guide, remove the razor blades and make your cut.  Thanks John Lucas!
http://www.woodshopdemos.com/fes-sq-2.htm

 

[woodshopdemos]

Mark, thanks for the mention.  And to Steve, spend some minutes (hours) in the Festool section of my website. Here is the link: http://www.woodshopdemos.com/men-fes.htm  There are many stories on parallel and perdendiculor cutting.
  Now, this is what we use all the time for crosscuts in my shop:

and here is the story:  http://www.woodshopdemos.com/Fes-Parallel-3.htm

 

[sw1211]

cheers Steve,

Does that one fix rigidly to Festool tracks or does it flop around a bit?

I think I'd prefer to have a fixed 90 degree stop, as tbh I never really cut anything else at the mo.  (I'm a beginner lol).  At least then it is minimising the risk of slop or movement.

I'm not very good at machining accurately so I might ask a friend to see if he could fix me an ally bracket at a true 90 degree angle.  (He is an engineering college teacher, so has access to a full engineer's shop).

Its all good advice though people, than you

No slop at all, real tight fit, one knob snugs it up so it won't move.  Mine was a perfect 90 degrees when tested with a Woodpecker precision square.

 

[ForumMFG]

This seems to be a popular thread.

I've asked before on tips on how to cut narrow stock such as 3" wide.  It would be nice if you guys could chime in on the best way to do this.  I've received some good tips but not many and I'm sure there are plenty of ways to do it.  I think cutting narrow stock with the TS and rail system is not fun at all.

 

[mhoy]

This seems to be a popular thread.

I've asked before on tips on how to cut narrow stock such as 3" wide.  It would be nice if you guys could chime in on the best way to do this.  I've received some good tips but not many and I'm sure there are plenty of ways to do it.  I think cutting narrow stock with the TS and rail system is not fun at all.

As long as your strip is shorter than your rails it should be an easy cut.  The story board method I've seen commented on seems ideal for a lot of cuts.

It was a gift having my rail system yesterday. I was doing some of the trim pieces in my remodeled kitchen. Sure enough, I have to cut a piece 3/4" on one end and 1" on the other and 30" long.  Put a shim on one side of the rail, put the rail on the line with the good side under the rail, clamped one end to be sure and away I went. Came out perfect. Mind you the wall curved at the end so I sanded inside the house with my sander with 80 grit along with my vacuum and very little dust.  A short time later a perfect fit.  This would have been painful with my table saw and ugly with my jig saw.

Another piece was 1 1/4" on one end and 1 1/2" on the other. Once again a simple cut with a perfect edge, no clean up required.  ;D

Mark

 

[Tinker]

If you are just starting in, I would advise to stay away from that Angle Unit.  There are several threads within this forum that will show just how frustrating that item can be.  John Lucas used sand paper with some success.  i believe he also used a seperate screw.  I used extra washers with limited success.  It seems that whatever method has been used, the angle will eventually slip.  It is fine for one setup. but for repeat cuts, forget it.  It can be very frustrating.

So far, the best method I have seen (not invested in as of yet) would be the parallel guides for a portable situation.

I use the MFT 1080 with fence and guide rail and make sure it is locked into square tight enough not to move.  Periodically, I check for square.  So far, it has not moved since a year or so when I had whacked the fence with a heavy 1x12 piece of white oak.  I now have more trouble keeping bottom plate on my ATF 55 square to blade (vertically) than keeping fence square to guide plate..  Every time i reset for a bevel cut, It takes several trial cuts to line it up perfectly.  Not a problem.  I had as much trouble when I had my old table saw.
Tinker

 

[fshanno]

Blow your budget and get an MFT.  Honestly you'll never regret it, it's an absolutely super piece of equipment, as valuable as a table saw.  Especially if you don't already have a nice workbench.  Plus if you're familiar with the AdapTableTool products it's also potentially a job site table saw and a router table and a band saw and who knows what all.  It's portable but it's not just a job site tool.  Mine has been invaluable and it's never left my shop.  Why are you still standing there?  Go get one!

I also have one of the little DeWalt T-Squares and I have to admit that it's a great little accessory for cuts under 16", especially on smooth material.

I also have an angle unit and it's also a nice accessory.  I tend not to use it when square matters because you have to check it about every two cuts.  But it can work and it's very useful for making angle cuts when 1 degree accuracy is acceptable.

A simple little framing triangle can also work.  You can get one and make it absolutely square by filing it a bit.

When possible you can cut more than one board at the same time by laying them side by side.  The boards need to be straight, flat and the same thickness.  In effect you make one wider board.

I needed to cut eight 11-1/2" wide boards for shelves 34-1/2" long from a sheet of plywood.  I laid the 4x8 sheet down on 4 horses.  I ripped four 11 1/2" x 8' strips and split them in the middle to make 8 boards 11 1/2" x roughly 4' long.  I butted 4 boards side by side and clamped a 1400 guide on each end.  I make sure the guides are square by checking the diagonals before I cut.  Didn't worry about the ends of the boards, just let them run wild because I had 6+ inches to play with.  I clamped both the guides down and cut both ends of the four boards with two cuts on the same setup.  Then I did the same thing with the remaining four boards.  I never lifted any of the eight boards up from the 4 horses until all eight were cut.  It was a little tedious to get the guides square and the right distance apart, quite a bit of tapping but really it was kind of fun.  The diagonal is particularly easy to measure in this scenario because the guide and boards form a corner where you can hang you tape.

 

[score0matic]

I think we have wandered slightly off the path here.  (NEVER thot I would be saying that )

Setting up a Mft, or in my case a Walko, is over kill to make a single or couple 90 deg cuts on shelves,  Just as setting up an SCMS is over kill.  The utility of a short rail with a 90 would be huge to anyone who has to bring the saw to the work,  (Deck builders,  Remodelers,  Tile Setters who have Festool habits :  ) 

Outside the shop the angle guide leaves LOTS to be desired, the fs-pa cumbersome, and even the fs 800 is too long to cross cut a short piece without support.

IDEA  an FS 400 with integral square.

Thanks Craig