CS 50 / CS 70 or CMS/TS55/TS75

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boisetmetal

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hello,

A question about choosing a side CS 50 / CS 70 and the other side CMS OF / TS55 / TS75.

In France, we are certain to have either a TS 55 or TS 75.
The question that we find on forums French or Belgian, is whether the economic solution + go + on CMS saw stand holds up?

What I think without being able to work with any of the two systems!
Having a CMS package + TS
Personally I rather tend to think that a saw that comes apart and goes back with TS 55 and TS 75 risk over time to tire a little and lose accuracy.
But on the other side go on a CMS allows you to go into the CMS management OF for a router!

Having a Precisio:
Although the PRECISIO solution costing more, but I think there really is all for stationary. The radial aspect is in my opinion a big plus!
And the advantage of retaining its TS 55/75 on one side and have a PRECISIO the other is so in case of failure of one of two saws, always have at least one depending !

My 1 question :
Precisio users, what are your opinions?
Find you a lot of advantage to a Precisio compared to other saws in table or not?

QUESTION 2 : CMS vs PRECISIO:
Those who were fortunate to work with two systems that can be said?

Thank you all can give me some info and your experiences!

Take care of you

eric
 
Well I speculate that there is not much repsonse to this thread is that few N. American based users own the precisio saws as they aren't available over there yet.

I personally only own a TS 75 and a MFT 3 had it about a month now.. My thoughts would be it would be a good solution to go with CMS module if you will also use it with the router, if your not planning on getting a router module then it makes sense to just invest in the PRECISIO and save the hassle and inflexiblity of having to take the saw in and out of the table for just a few cuts.. Watching the video on the process for putting the TS 75 into it's CMS module appears to my mind to be somewhat fiddly, especielly the part where you have to remove the riving knife and attach the modules dust extraction, guard and riving knife.. In a workflow situation where time is short I'd prefer a dedicated machine. In a small workshop for hobbiest etc. it could be acceptable though..

The great thing though is the CMS setup is compact and portable if space in the workshop, or truck is limited.. I think the CMS is interesting mostly if you plan on getting most or if not all of the modules.. TS 55, TS 75, Router, Jigsaw and beltsander.. Would be nice if they could make a drilling attachments module and dedicated machine  for cylinder/disk sander, doweler..

 
I don't have the space for a Precisio 70 so I went TS55 + CMS-TS55 + MFT-VL + MFT/3 + Incra LS25 supersystem (metric) and TSC55 (handheld) for sawing and I have the CMS-OF currently in the CMS-GE base it came with and move it to the MFT-VL for precision work with the Incra fence. (I would have gone TS75 if I had bought these new, but since I got a good deal for the CMS-system second hand I'm stuck with the TS55 in it.)

I've tried the CS50 when our kitchen contractor had one onsite during the house renovation and even that felt really nice and quality and actually was my initial brush-up with Festools. Since then I've fiddled a bit with a CS70 at the local Festool showroom and I do think its even finer a machine than the CS50 - less portable, but more solid in some odd way.

If space was not an issue I would probably rather have the combination of CS70 with extension tables and a long Incra fence installed like this with custom profiles for sawing and more table saw like controls on blade tilt and pull saw capability and then have the CMS-OF2200 in the MFT-VL with a shorter LS-positioner on a Precision Plate attached permanently to your MFT/3 for routing.

Alex here has a full CS70 set so he is probably your best bet for a great opinion on it.
 
PreferrablyWood said:
Watching the video on the process for putting the TS 75 into it's CMS module appears to my mind to be somewhat fiddly, especielly the part where you have to remove the riving nice and attach the modules guard and riving knife.. In a workflow situation where time is short I'd prefer a dedicated machine. In a small workshop for hobbiest etc. it could be acceptable though..
Click to expand...

I've never bothered to change the riving knife of my TS55  to attach the blade guard/dust port as then you can't cut dadoes on the CMS-TS with that attached. The saw works just fine in the table with its integrated riving knife.

Actually the attachment of the saw is easy and quick compared to the attachment of the router, but even so I have gotten a TSC55 to act as my handheld saw and dedicated my TS55 permanently to the CMS-module to save the hassle.

I just found myself coming up with weird ways of cutting stuff on the table when the saw was attached to the CMS to not have to remove it, do a trivial cut on the rail, re-attach it, fight with the silly springy clip that is corded to the trigger holder, re-calibrate & re-square it to the fence. Way too much hassle for that one handheld cut. 

And I'm a hobbyist, but I prefer having fun when making something and re-calibrating tools is not what I find fun.
 
I do have a CS 50 Set version, TS 55R and Kapex. With some jobs I use them all three!
The TS 55 comes handy when breaking down sheet goods to sizes which fits the CS 50.
Hard woods till 50 mm can also be done on the CS 50 although it has to work harder and you have to use the right sharp! saw blade with lesser teeth. Planing or sanding it afterwards is recommended.
For smaller cuts I often use the CS 50. And for specific cross cuts the Kapex. They all have their specific tasks.
I really like the CS 50 although it has it's limits. No complete sheet of plywood will fit easily and is not recommended.
Unlike the CMS the CS 50 also has the pulling saw mechanism, which comes in very handy. The sliding table can be attached to both the CS 50 and CMS is also handy although the tabletop is too small.
I could not live with a CMS-TS 55 when constantly removing and installing the saw.
Like Reiska has, 2 TS 55 saws is better when using one permanently in the CMS.

If sheets sizes are too big or too thick, I have the opportunity to use an Altendorf panel saw from a friend. That's a real saw!
 
You need to list out the reasons you would need a portable rip saw set up as most things can be done using the saw on the guide rail system, at almost €1000 for the CMS and a TS mounting plate you need to be doing a lot more than just a few ripping cuts to justify the cost and my experience of using the TS module is that it feels more bricolage then Festool.
 
Eric,

Having come here from the states I got used to not using a table saw. I would use a TS 55 and guide rail for everything. After moving here, I bought a TS 75 w/ module for my CMS. The reason I chose to go with a saw in the CMS is because I could do everything with a guide rail but using a table saw is a lot easier for me. I dont need a stationary one (as I got rid of all my stationary tools when I moved here).

I find its very easy to change modules, outer to saw and back. Takes just a few minutes. The reason I went for the TS 75 is because I use my TS 55 for most cuts the TS 75 is almost permanently mounted in the CMS module. But if I need a saw to cut some thick material I have one.
 
jobsworth said:
Eric,

Having come here from the states I got used to not using a table saw. I would use a TS 55 and guide rail for everything. After moving here, I bought a TS 75 w/ module for my CMS. The reason I chose to go with a saw in the CMS is because I could do everything with a guide rail but using a table saw is a lot easier for me. I dont need a stationary one (as I got rid of all my stationary tools when I moved here).

I find its very easy to change modules, outer to saw and back. Takes just a few minutes. The reason I went for the TS 75 is because I use my TS 55 for most cuts the TS 75 is almost permanently mounted in the CMS module. But if I need a saw to cut some thick material I have one.
Click to expand...

I think I'm might end up getting a TS 55 and use the TS 75 predominately in the CMS too.. This again because I'm thinking of getting the CMS for routing, jigsaw, beltsanding functions..
 
One advantage of the unterflurzugkreissäge  saw style is it can be used to cut segmented curves  and tapers for fitting work in a pinch by ripping with a pull, repositioning the work/guide and repeating.  The can can be done with  track saw of course but the track saw doesn't switch over to some other cuts in as friendly a manner.  Considering the unterflurzugkreissäge  can also miter and crosscut adequately with minimal switchover time, it's a tool that packs a lot of versatility into one unit.  If I were in France I'd look on ebay for any bargain on such a saw and buy it to try it out, no matter which maker.  Mafell, Elektra Beckum and Metabo have made them as well as the Festool.  I've never read comments that implied any of them were bad saws.
 
How likely is it that you want to mess with putting the TS into the table and taking it out? If you would buy another TS for the panel cuts... better get a Precisio then. The pulling is very nice on a Precisio. You could do that with Basis 1A of the old Basis plus system, but it's not available in the CMS flavour.

Also the depth setting is nicer, it handles better overall.

But really, precisio NAINA too?  [eek]
 
Ole Festool friends !

I think the same thing
for CMS solution :
1 TS saw with rail and 1 TS to go with the CMS Module!

Or TS 55/75 with rail/FS and a Precisio 50/70

In my case I know that my next two big tools OF 2200 with CMS CMS + OF and the other a PRECISIO.
I would wait a bit for a Kapex!

In any case thank you for your many and complete answers!
 
I will search this for showing you later ! No problems ! I go to breakfast and just searching after !
 
PreferrablyWood said:
I'm a little unclear on this pull saw technique is there some video showing in action?

Thanks in advance...
Click to expand...

Not in english - go to about 12 minutes in

 
Nice videos. I like the CS 50 but would I change my CMS for one? No not really. I like the versatility of the CMS being able to change out modules.
 
It's true that Festool hasn't really introduced its table saws in the United States as far as I'm aware. Probably for several reasons but one may be that one can buy a portable table saw here for less than $200 and they really do rip quite well and some have rip fences that extend to more than 600mm.  All in all we have a lot of very decent power tools available at prices so low they would probably shock most Europeans.  The main downside is the kit is more cumbersome to load, carry and setup.  I still think the unterflurzugkreissäge is a remarkable design for a craftsperson working alone on a job site, but until some manufacturer figures out how to make one at a reasonable price for the N. American market I don't think it will ever catch on.  We have very low import tariffs on goods from Asia and this allows a company like DeWalt to sell an effective portable table saw with a rack and pinion rip fence for $300.  It can't crosscut impressively, but sliding compound miter saws are getting lower in price every year and the market is flooded with brands spec'ing them from Asian factories. 

People do sometimes manage to bring  Festool table saws over from Europe.  I've seen them for sale on ebay and they sell for collector prices. 
 
It is certain that the purchase price is important!
And we know in Europe that you're lucky to have lower price than ours !
Maybe a solution for Festool to sell more products in the USA, would to produce the tools directly in the USA!

In any case one thing I know for myself, I certainly do not have significant resources, and I prefer to wait a few months for have better tool!

So I look for results, not a prize !
So rather than buying an entry-level and mid-range and high-end product, I jump directly to Step upscale!

And I can see from other products I have bought before discovering Festool, how there are limits, and how it's not possible to do many things as limited and without options ! Other trade are good too, but i prefer Festool.

Thank you again for your answers,

eric
 
The price hike in the US for Festool products is a lot less compared to European prices of US-made stuff. So before you complain ;)
 
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