CT shuts down after three minutes without any obvious reason

[CTPootie]

Recently the CT-22 (not many hours on it) started shutting down after running for about 5 minutes.
After perusing the forum and not noticing anything amiss - such as clogged bag or pleated filter and no obstructions in the hose, etc. I registered at this forum and decided to post this note, as I have not found any obvious reason why this is happening.

The vac is not used for trade.
Except the occasional sanding with the Rotex, it is mostly used around the house for cleaning.

The vac has a new bag - just checked it and it is still mostly empty.
Did notice the fold of the bag was up against the entry point where the bag connects to the connector tube.
Expanding the bag and clearing that did not help.
Vac shut down again after about five minutes.

The vac also has a pair of brand new HEPA pleated filters, which was installed after purchasing the Oneida cyclone.
(Which works great, by the way, but see note below.)

Another clue that may assist in diagnosing this puzzle.
I recently bought the Oneida cyclone that is made for the CT - the one that has the Systainer notches.
That is when I started experiencing the thermal cut-off shutdown.
But this could be just a coincidence.
After that I ran the CT-22 without the cyclone and it has continued to shut down after 5-10 minutes.

I usually keep two boxes of bags in the house and usually switch in a new one when bag is little past half full.

Also, these days the vac is used for general house cleaning, so it's mostly light dust.
We do not have wall-to-wall carpeting.
Hardwood floors and a few oriental rugs.

Before I call Festool tech folks, would it be at all possible the thermal cut-off switch for the motor could be faulty?
At this point I do not believe there is anything during operation that is contributing to this problem

Sorry to be so over-winded with this post.

 

[Brice Burrell]

Recently the CT-22 (not many hours on it) started shutting down after running for about 5 minutes.
After perusing the forum and not noticing anything amiss - such as clogged bag or pleated filter and no obstructions in the hose, etc. I registered at this forum and decided to post this note, as I have not found any obvious reason why this is happening............

Welcome to the forum. 

You've checked the obvious now it's time to call Festool.  Their staff are very helpful and will probably trouble shoot over the phone first so you may want to have the vac handy when you call.

 

[CTPootie]

re - will probably trouble shoot over the phone first

Thanks for the reply and I will give them a call Monday.

This is actually the second CT-22 for me.
First one was used fairly heavily - including lots of sanding - without ever encountering the shutdown.
A friend borrowed that one and instead of returning it, bought me a new one.
This one has not been used anywhere near as heavily as the first, which leads me to believe something is going on with the thermal sensor or related component.

Stumbled upon this forum after the shutdown symptom appeared and read about the temp protection.
Most of my stuff dates back to the days when Festo was still selling direct and shipping out of regional distribution centers.
Have the 1100 router, rotex and 150 sanders, TS-55 saw, table, 32mm jigs, several different length saw guides, etc. and never gave it much thought about any of this ever having repairs or service unless I did something stupid and caused damage.
And of all things the vacuum/dust collection was the primary reason that was the most appealing and the decisive factor.

Thanks again.

 

[Alan m]

[welcome] to the fog.
did you run it with not bag or filter with not dust to see if those caused it
you checked the obvious causes so calling festool (number in shane hollands signiture ) is the best bet.

 

[CTPootie]

re - did you run it with not bag or filter with not dust to see if those caused it

------

Actually, that is a good suggestion and I did not think to try that.
Easy enough to do, so thank you for that tip.

 

[CTPootie]

As suggested by "Alan m", ran the CT-22E without the bag and filters.
No hose attached.
Excellent air flow to cooling grills and also plenty of suction and exhaust, as is the case with bag/filters.

Unit shuts down after about three minutes, which appears to be the pattern.

With apologies, also posted at "Ask Festool" forum.

 

[semenza]

Hi CTPootie,

Welcome to the FOG !  [smile]

Here is the Festool service number 800-554-8741

Seth

 

[CTPootie]

An update:

Called Festool support at number posted at this thread, and the story ends on a very positive note.

Less than a minute to reach a helpful voice.
After a brief chat with the support person, was referred (transferred) to a technician.
Since I am not sure of the protocol at this forum I will not mention the name.
Left a voice mail - Called shortly after 8 am Monday morning EST.
Later in the day got a call from California.
After about 10 minutes of troubleshooting the shutdown issue was traced to a small temperature sensor in the motor cradle.
A tiny brass probe with two very thin white wires that plug into the circuit board.

I had taken apart the motor housing and the motor was already removed for examining the motor brushes, which had plenty of wear  left in them. They are listed as shut-off brushes and there are two, so these were suspected first before I called Festool.
This may have helped the over-the-phone diagnosis that quickly led to the above mentioned probe.

Especially after he determined mine does not have the second temperature sensor that is directly attached to the outside of the motor. (My CT-22E is a 2004 model.)
There was mention the probe installed during that period were somewhat problematic and known to cause symptoms I was encountering.
Detailed images of the motor and brushes were emailed to him and we determined the motor is in good condition with no signs of degradation or heat damage.

So, instead of needing to ship the motor/lid section for diagnosis and repairs, the temp sensor is on its way.
After poking around and being careful during dismantling, it should take maybe 10-15 minutes to install the new probe and have it up and running.

Note: A Torx T-25 driver will take care of all the screws that will expose the circuit board and motor housing.

Thank you for all your helpful suggestions and hope this information helps.

 

[Steve R]

Thanks for letting us know how it was resolved. Also nice to know I might want make sure I have a A Torx T-25 driver around.

Cheers,
Steve

 

[bobbobbob]

+1  ;D

 

[CTPootie]

I will report back after the new temp sensor probe is installed.

The unit is very easy to dismantle and it obviously was designed with ease of service in mind.
Figuring out which screws to remove at each step is not a problem.
For those who might have to, a bit more info:

After separating the lid from the vac, flop the thing upside down on a table with some room to set aside stuff.
First set of T25 screws you remove will allow you to lift off the motor housing cover.
There is also a smaller cover to the side (two T25 screws) that is over the circuit board and some wires passing through that would need to be unplugged.
The motor itself has a pair of plastic housing that are simply fitted on opposite ends with a large and squishy o-ring.
No screws holding them, so after unplugging the two power leads to the motor, the whole thing lifts out.
Just in case, I marked various pieces 'top', including the motor itself.
After the motor is lifted out, the cradle for the motor is revealed underneath. (black plastic with foam sound insulation)
This is where the temperature sensor is, poking up from underneath.
Very tiny brass probe, sticking up maybe 1/2".
Two white wires plug into the circuit board underneath the cradle and the connector is visible but very tricky to remove as it is a locking type.
Before lifting off the cradle, there are couple of other larger wires that need to be disconnected that are easy to reach.
Several more T25 screws and the cradle is lifted out, with the temp probe white wires dangling.
Carefully press down on the top tip of the probe to remove it - It is pressure fitted.
Help it get down further into the hole - maybe using a blunt toothpick.
Gently tugging on the wire will remove the probe. (Picture attached)

 

[CTPootie]

Amazing...UPS just dropped off the new thermal sensor (452149).
Two days, shipped out of Indiana.

 

[CTPootie]

Last post on this thread, at least for me.

New thermal sensor probe installed.
It was not difficult to reinsert it - just have to press through carefully.
Few minutes to get the motor assembly seated properly in the cradle.
Lost count of T25 screws - maybe less than 10 total.
Sensor connector plus five other wires reconnected.
Actually, another set of wires that plug in the board.

Just to make sure, reinstalled a barely used bag that was replaced with a new one when the trouble started.
Instead of the HEPA, swapped in the regular pleated filters.

Vacuum ran past the 3-minutes and kept running while it was used with hose and floor attachment.
For good measure, left it running for about 10 minutes at lower speed.

Come to think of it, the vac typically is run for only a minute or so at a time with a plunge cut saw, even when ripping a full 8' length sheet.
Even with a sander, I can't see running mine for longer than 10-15 minutes before I have to stop and take a breather.
Besides, probably not a bad idea to pace the motor despite all the safeguards and bypass cooling.

Thank you all at the forum for the kind words and especially to Festool for exceptional service.
A dream ending indeed.

 

[bobbobbob]

Great to hear the problem was solved!  Nice follow up.  This could be very helpful to others in the future...

 

[CTPootie]

Thank you.

The thermal probe, by the way, is shared by CT11, CT22 and CT33 models.
Mine is a CT-22E, but not sure what the E is for.

 

[ajones]

+1 aways interested in the cause and outcome thanks for taking the time.

 

[CTPootie]

re - thanks for taking the time.

It was my pleasure, and all the more so because of the way Festool handled it.

 

[CTPootie]

A quick followup:

Been running the CT-22E without the (false) thermal shutdowns.

Do need to test it with the Dust Deputy after which I will post another update.
No reason to expect trouble.