CT-VA-20 with CT26 - Poor Suction

[louder]

Hey all. I found this older thread and not much else, first and foremost was curious to know what others are experiencing and what you've tried to improve the situation.

In short, when I use the CTVA, my dust collection from my Bosch miter, Kreg foreman, Festool track saw, or Bosch router table, go from pretty good to atrocious. With a minimal cut like taking the factory edge off a sheet of plywood, I end up coated in wood chips when using the cyclone. It's doing a substantially worse job than a PRO dust separator on a bucket connected to an old RIDGID shop vac.

Unfortunately I didn't realize Festool has a 30 day limitation on returns. I bought at Rockler and thought I had 90, so I took the time to see if I could improve the situation with tape in a few spots, but to no avail. I do end up with shavings in the bag, but it's sort of hilarious to compare the shavings in the bag vs on the ground.

I'm all ears for suggestions. Festool support has been a non-help so far, sending me what appears to be stock copy-paste answers to FAQs.

 

[woodbutcherbower]

My CT26 + CT-VA works just great. There’s a definite drop in suction compared to the straight CT26 for sure, but as the picture will show - it’s still plenty enough to get the job done. Pretty much flawless actually - and with heavy machining I'm emptying the bin 2-3 times a day - occasionally even more. There's virtually nothing making it through to the bag, even when I'm generating crazy volumes of superfine dust as per the picture. I have to say, though, that mine got way better when I upgraded to a 36mm hose, so I'd definitely suggest that you look at the the extra airflow provided by that. I’d also add that when you’re taking a few mm off the edge of a sheet - dust collection will be practically non-existent no matter what you use.

Are you sure you've got the hoses connected the right way round? If you look closely at the top Systainer housing, one of the ports has a small extractor picture moulded into the plastic above it. That - unsurprisingly - is the port you connect the extractor to, and your tool connects to the other one. My apologies if this is an insult to your intelligence !!! I mention it specifically because that's exactly what I did first time around ....

How's the secondary filter on your CT26 looking? If that's clogged, it will have a pretty dramatic effect on the suction. Are you using proper Festool filter bags which collapse inwards and de-cake the internal surface when the machine gets turned off? The generic eBay or Amazon-style ones are invariably terrible.

Oh - and don't use the plastic bag. It's about as much use as an ashtray on a motorcycle.

Kevin

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[Crazyraceguy]

I minimal cut, like "taking the factory edge off a sheet of plywood" is a worst-case scenario for dust extraction. There is no out-board support, which lets the debris get away.
The drop in suction, is only an issue when you are running the CT at full power. Since that is not always the case, in may not be that big of a deal to most users. They might need to turn it up slightly, from the usual spot, but it works.

 

[louder]

I minimal cut, like "taking the factory edge off a sheet of plywood" is a worst-case scenario for dust extraction. There is no out-board support, which lets the debris get away.
The drop in suction, is only an issue when you are running the CT at full power. Since that is not always the case, in may not be that big of a deal to most users. They might need to turn it up slightly, from the usual spot, but it works.

I didn't really think about it that way re: worst case scenario. I do often run the CT at full power , suction w/ the separator is essentially non existent with much less than max.

Are you sure you've got the hoses connected the right way round? If you look closely at the top Systainer housing, one of the ports has a small extractor picture moulded into the plastic above it. That - unsurprisingly - is the port you connect the extractor to, and your tool connects to the other one. My apologies if this is an insult to your intelligence !!! I mention it specifically because that's exactly what I did first time around ....

How's the secondary filter on your CT26 looking? If that's clogged, it will have a pretty dramatic effect on the suction. Are you using proper Festool filter bags which collapse inwards and de-cake the internal surface when the machine gets turned off? The generic eBay or Amazon-style ones are invariably terrible.

Oh - and don't use the plastic bag. It's about as much use as an ashtray on a motorcycle.

Kevin

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I was originally using the bag, I've removed it though. And no insult - sometimes even the most obvious of facts bear restating I did check that out, because I too have been known to skip the directions and just go for it, but I have been using it with the correct hookup arrangement. The vac has the original Festool filter (I only bought this stuff in the last couple of months) and I see a small amount of debris in it, but nothing major, and definitely no caking.

 

[rst]

On my original TS55, I fastened a NGP 1” brush to the gap at the bottom of saw to narrow the opening around the blade.  If you have ever cut plastics you’ll know how the electrostatic chips go everywhere.  This works great at reducing escaping chips.  I mostly use my TSC rather than the corded.  I’ve been just closing the gap with 2” painter’s tape that works just as well. Every time I use it this way I wonder why I don’t take the hour to sell and tap the two holes and fasten a brush the same…

 

[woodferret]

If by shavings, you mean anything larger than 1cm, (eg: curly splinters from the edge cut) then you probably clogged the 32mm bends of the VA-20.  I'd take it apart and check for partial blockages.

 

[James Carriere]

Hi Louder,

You should double check that the black cyclone (round) element is fully seated in the bottom of the upper housing.  One time after driving to a job site it had rocked slightly out of firm contact and that considerably reduced its effectiveness.  Subsequently I have sealed all of the internal joints / connections with foil tape and that seemed to help a little.  Overall however you should expect some minor diminished suction when using the CT-VA as per Festool.  I saw a table once that they published where they compared various hose diameters and lengths in conjunction with the CT-VA and listed the expected CFMs with each combination.  Perhaps you can track that down and compare their published results with your findings. In reference Woodbutcherbower's photo, mine also looks like his when it has been in use so that is what you should expect.  As he said, a 36mm hose will certainly help.

 

[woodbutcherbower]

[member=82099]louder[/member] You’re using a standard CT26 with no bag? Buy a new filter and put a bag in - I’m pretty sure that’s your problem. The filter is only there to catch the microscopic particles which make it through the pores of the bag. The only Festool extractors designed for use without a bag are the ‘AC’ versions which automatically empty out the filter using mechanical vibration.

 

[GarryMartin]

[member=82099]louder[/member] You’re using a standard CT26 with no bag?

He means no bag in the CT-VA-20; you can use them without or with a plastic bag to make emptying easier.

 

[woodbutcherbower]

[member=82099]louder[/member] You’re using a standard CT26 with no bag?

He means no bag in the CT-VA-20; you can use them without or with a plastic bag to make emptying easier.

Of course. I feel a bit of a chump now  [huh]

 

[Cheese]

I saw a table once that they published where they compared various hose diameters and lengths in conjunction with the CT-VA and listed the expected CFMs with each combination. 

Is this the table you were referring to?

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[louder]

If by shavings, you mean anything larger than 1cm, (eg: curly splinters from the edge cut) then you probably clogged the 32mm bends of the VA-20.  I'd take it apart and check for partial blockages.

Checked - there was no buildup or anything anywhere.

Hi Louder,

You should double check that the black cyclone (round) element is fully seated in the bottom of the upper housing.  One time after driving to a job site it had rocked slightly out of firm contact and that considerably reduced its effectiveness.  Subsequently I have sealed all of the internal joints / connections with foil tape and that seemed to help a little.  Overall however you should expect some minor diminished suction when using the CT-VA as per Festool.  I saw a table once that they published where they compared various hose diameters and lengths in conjunction with the CT-VA and listed the expected CFMs with each combination.  Perhaps you can track that down and compare their published results with your findings. In reference Woodbutcherbower's photo, mine also looks like his when it has been in use so that is what you should expect.  As he said, a 36mm hose will certainly help.

Thanks - I didn't think about the hose size. Are the Festool hoses sufficiently superior to justify their high cost? I'm not opposed to getting the 36.

I tried sealing up the top of the baffle all the way around with foil tape and did see a small improvement. How did you go about taping other areas? It's surprising to me that even when fully seated and properly situated, you can see daylight all the way around the cyclone housing where it sits in the systainer above the bin...

 

[woodbutcherbower]

[member=82099]louder[/member] Festool hoses are worth every penny;

1 They’re made of rubber so you don’t feel like you’re wresting with a boa constrictor which has rigor mortis.
2 They have a smooth fabric outer skin so there’s no snagging.
3 They’re completely antistatic so you don’t keep getting zapped.

Since swapping out my old 27 for a 36 a year ago, the dust collection of every tool I run has improved dramatically.

 

[louder]

[member=82099]louder[/member] Festool hoses are worth every penny;

1 They’re made of rubber so you don’t feel like you’re wresting with a boa constrictor which has rigor mortis.
2 They have a smooth fabric outer skin so there’s no snagging.
3 They’re completely antistatic so you don’t keep getting zapped.

Since swapping out my old 27 for a 36 a year ago, the dust collection of every tool I run has improved dramatically.

Good to know, thanks! Will I need adapters for my tools for the larger hose? I'm new to the whole Festool ecosystem, sorry if this is a stupid question.

 

[bobtskutter]

I just bought a CT36 and the cyclone module.  The standard 27/32mm hose has a rubber fitting which goes inside the dust port of the track saw and router (OF1400) and over the top of the dust port on the sanders/Domino500/Carvex.  The hose fitting on the Vacuum and Cyclone are standard size, you dont need any adapters.  The 36mm hose will fit on the outside of the dust port on the track saw and router, you'll need an adapter to make it fit the other tools (768135).

Bob

 

[woodbutcherbower]

Good to know, thanks! Will I need adapters for my tools for the larger hose? I'm new to the whole Festool ecosystem, sorry if this is a stupid question.

What Bob's saying is that in the case of your tracksaw, the 27mm hose fits inside the port, the 36mm hose fits over the outside of it. It's very well thought-out. Everything at the extractor/cyclone end is the same. And after insulting your intelligence once - I'm going to do it again. You do have the turbine speed set to max, don't you?

 

[louder]

Good to know, thanks! Will I need adapters for my tools for the larger hose? I'm new to the whole Festool ecosystem, sorry if this is a stupid question.

What Bob's saying is that in the case of your tracksaw, the 27mm hose fits inside the port, the 36mm hose fits over the outside of it. It's very well thought-out. Everything at the extractor/cyclone end is the same. And after insulting your intelligence once - I'm going to do it again. You do have the turbine speed set to max, don't you?

Got it. That makes sense. I'm good swapping out hoses to use the sander vs the bigger tools.

I have tried running at a variety of speeds but I have, in fact, left it on max for the last... week or two. Is that no bueno?

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Got it. That makes sense. I'm good swapping out hoses to use the sander vs the bigger tools.

I have tried running at a variety of speeds but I have, in fact, left it on max for the last... week or two. Is that no bueno?

Running the CT at full speed is fine most of the time. The exception is with sanders. Too much suction with sanders can cause problems. It can cause the sander to "stick" to the surface, which feels jumpy, plus it degrades the finish you get, by causing swirl marks. Definitely turn it down then, with other tools, it's fine.
Save the smaller hose for the sanders too. Not only does it feel better in the hand, you don't need the extra volume of the bigger hose anyway. Plus, you would have to do some adapting to make it happen. The sanders don't have that dual fit connector that the others mentioned, nor does the Domino.
I stick with the smaller hose on my track saw too. It has always done fine, for the sheet goods, where I use it most. I will use the 36mm hose when cutting thicker hardwood though.

Hope that helps

PS,
There is also a difference between volume of air flow and static pressure.

 

[James Carriere]

I saw a table once that they published where they compared various hose diameters and lengths in conjunction with the CT-VA and listed the expected CFMs with each combination. 

Is this the table you were referring to? 

Yes that is the table I saw.  Its certainly helpful and takes some of the guesswork out of the equation.

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