CT36 and Incra Cleansweep

[yangwoodworking]

Hi everyone,

I am pretty new to the woodworking hobby. I am looking for some information on dust collection.

Currently I have Festool CT 36. My Incra Router table has a Cleansweep enclosure on it. Cleansweep has a 4 inch port. With an adapter, I managed to connect an 2 1/2 hose between CT 36 and Cleansweep.

What I found was the suction power seems not to be great. While it can work, but I can see some wood debris got left on the table surface. Opening the Cleansweep, I can see some debris at corners. Basically it is not 100% clean.

I am thinking of buying a 1 HP portable dust collector, such as this one:https://www.rikontools.com/product/60-105
It come with a 4 inch dust port and 660 CFM, where CT 36 only draws 137 CFM.

Can someone tell me if Rikon will make big improvement? Also can someone recommend a good 4 inch dust collector if Rikon does not work out?

Thanks!

 

[PeterK]

One issue with enclosed box routers is that there is normally very limited air available to suck through the box. By that I mean the opening around the router bit is not enough to allow enough volume of air to clear the dust and chips. I have an older Woodpecker router enclosure and have to leave the side “window” wide open to get enough air to cross flow and carry the wood chips away. I am successfully using a CT22 vacuum with the 4” dust port connection and it works quite well. Not as good as when I had a 2HP cyclone hooked to it but definitely well enough.

 

[Joelm]

I recently bought a cleansweep as well. I was using a 650 cfm dust collector but it was clogging. I then purchased a cyclone to catch the big chips. It worked but I noticed a big drop off in suction. So I just upgraded to a new rockler 1250 cfm collector and am very impressed with collection now.

 

[RKA]

So, you’re on the right path looking at a dust collector instead of the dust extractor. Your Festool works well with smaller fittings on handheld tools because it can maintain sufficient velocity the draw the dust in.  The second you expand the 2” hose out to a 4” opening or a large cavity inside that clean sweep box, the velocity near the cutting edge takes a nosedive. 

A dust collector can maintain velocity airflow around the cutting edge provided you don’t restrict that 4” opening.  The restrictions add static pressure which kills airflow and velocity.  The Incra with its clean sweep plates allow more airflow than a solid plate, so you should do well here.

The other thing you want to research is single stage vs 2 stage.  Single stage uses a bag or pleated filter to “clean” the air before it goes back into your shop.  A bag like the one you linked doesn't do anything to clean the air.  It filter chips and spews fine dust into your shop.  A two stage adds a cyclone to collect the chips before sending the air through a fine filter.  Better cyclones will also collect a lot of the dust, limiting what gets past and extending the intervals where your filter needs cleaning or replacing.

Finally, lots of people buy inexpensive single stage units a put together their own 2 stage units with cyclones available.  It can be cheaper, but you have some design and assembly to do.  Lots of videos on YouTube of people buying a harbor freight dust collector and adding an Oneida cyclone and some form of hepa filter (there are your search keywords).

If you plan on adding other machinery to your shop with 4” ports, take your time and do your research.  Dust collection can be as expensive as any other machine in your shop.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Putting the router in a box, then attempting to suck all the debris into that box, past the router (including the top of the router where cool air is supposed enter the router) seems backwards to me.

The debris should be intercepted as close to the source as possible. It should not get past collet.

An extractor works just fine with this well designed system

 

[PeterK]

Somewhat similar to the Amazon gizmo I use 2 Festool vacs. One hooked to the router enclosure - CT22 with a 50mm hose and a Midi hooked to my fence with a 36mm hose. Absolutely no doubt that a cyclone does work far better but you use what you can at the time.

 

[semenza]

Welcome to the forum!  [smile]

    I use downdraft box enclosure that I built my self. Same idea as Clean Sweep except that I don't use the slotted insert rings. I have the Woodpeckers insert rings. Everything just gets pulled through the ring opening. There is always some dust left in the inside corners in the box. I think that is going to be the case unless the enclosure doesn't have  corners.

    As others have said you need higher CFM volume  than what vacuums will move. I notice on the Incra info that they say to use a minimum of 350CFM for the Clean Sweep. My DC is rated as 1300 CFM.

  You will also find that many (most) routing operations will fill the CT bags quickly.

Seth

 

 

[grbmds]

I have used the Incra table/fence with the Clean Sweep for several years.

Originally I tried using my CT for dust collection but the suction/air movement isn't sufficient to handle the volume of chips produced at the router table.

I use my Oneida cyclone and, while there are still a few shavings/chips that remain on the top (especially when routing dadoes), the vast majority of chips and dust are removed.

I would recommend -

1. Use the Incra table insert kit they sell for use with the Clean Sweep if you don't already use them. They are designed to create more air flow from the top down and they do a good job of increasing the air flow to create more downward suction (at least that has been my experience).

2. As was suggested, take some time to research dust collection and the various 2-stage dust collectors available, especially if you either own or plan to own other larger machines like a jointer, planer, bandsaw, or drum sander. The CT won't handle dust collection for these tools adequately.

3. While doing research on dust collectors, also do research on the filters with which these collectors are equipped. I personally wouldn't buy any collector that doesn't either come with a HEPA filter or have one available as an option. I have always believed that filtering out the finest particles possible is essential. Otherwise the air that gets circulated back into your will put back into the air the particles that are the most harmful to your health. Problem is that higher end cyclones don't come cheap.

Good dust collection isn't cheap, but keeping your lungs healthy is very important to a long-healthy life.

 

[rst]

I've been using the Milescraft Dust Router for at least as long as it has been available.  I use tape attached velcro to attach the silicone undermount sleeve to fasten to my throat inserts.  The above table extraction is through an Incra wonder fence.  I use a Festool's router table dual extraction hose to connect my vacuum.  There is minimal chip release under the table and my 7518 gets all the air it needs for cooling.  I rout plastics more than anything else so efficient chip collection is a must.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Plugging a dust extractor into a big volume box like a Clean Sweep greatly reduces the velocity of the air entering the box. It’s no match for the speed of the chips coming off the router bit. With a Clean Sweep you do need a dust collector.

The Keen/Milescraft kit maintains directs reasonably sized hoses to the exact locations needed so it maintains sufficient velocity from a regular dust collector (with Cyclone in between) to do pretty well catching router debris and it keeps the router clean and happy.

 

[yangwoodworking]

Thanks everyone. Just an update in case others have the same question.

I bought the Rikon 1HP dust collector. I also bought a $15 wind detector from Amazon. I did a comparison tests like this. I hold the wind detector at the mouth of the router lift without any plate. I checked the wind under the following 3 conditions:

1. CT 36 via a 2 1/2" to 4" hose to Cleansweep. The wind was about 4 m/s.
2. CT 36 + Festool Cyclone via a 2 1/2" to 4" hose to Cleansweep. The wind was about 2.9 m/s.
3. Rikon 1 HP via 4" hose. The wind was about 9 m/s.

What I can see was there was a huge improvement by using the dust collector. I also believe that the 1HP dust collector consumes less power than CT 36.