cutting routing and machining dibond, aluminium composite material

[sucker 4 tools]

hi i need as much info as i can on working with ACM, i realize that a cnc is prob the best thing, but i want to look into other areas such as the ts saws and routing with the track rail etc. i see that festool make a specialist blade for it to use with the ts saw, can anyone give me any feedback on it ?
regards

 

[doug_m]

Hi,

The ACM's I've worked with are Dibond, Alucobond and E-Panel.
The Dibond material is the strongest and stiffest, the other two seem about the same.
You can score and snap the Alucobond and E panel with a utility knife. Doing the same with the Dibond is harder.
The aluminum sheets on the top and bottom are pretty thin like .008" to .012" and I find the standard blade on the TS55 works fine.
I almost exclusively use the 0.125" thick sheets in 4' x 8' or 5' x 10' white painted alumium on both sides but it is available in other colours.
You do get a pretty sharp edge after cutting and when you rout the little square chips are staticky (is that a real word?) and stick to your work and you. This only happens when I use a router without dust collection.
I don't have any experience with the Festool aluminum blade so I don't know if it gives a better edge than the standard 48T blade on the TS55

Doug

 

[Peter_C]

Make sure any blade you use has negative rake. Some may get away with using a blade that has positive rake, but it can kick back without warning. Other wise slow the blade speed down a little and work it like a hard wood.

 

[Phil Beckley]

Hi
  In Europe Festool produced the P.F.1200 that had the cutters for these materials - I think production has ceased but will check and get back to you.
rg
Phil

 

[overanalyze]

I have cut tons of ACM panels with the TS55. I use a TCG blade from Tenryu. Works well. Dust collection is just ok. The static build up clogs the chips in the front of the saw and in the dust port. I dress the edges quick with a file if they are somewhere someone could touch them. They are sharp. E-panel & Dibond are the two I am most familiar with.

 

[Stephen B]

[size=8pt]

Hi
  In Europe Festool produced the P.F.1200 that had the cutters for these materials - I think production has ceased but will check and get back to you.
rg
Phil

[size=13pt]

[attachimg=1]

Still on Festool AUS website -
http://www.festool.com.au/epages/to...ooltechnic/Products/574324/SubProducts/574324

But around four times the price of a corded TS55.
___________________________________________________

EDIT: and here it is on the UK site -https://www.festool.co.uk/Products/...e-milling-machine-PF-1200-E-Plus-Alucobond-GB

[size=8pt][member=41214]Phil Beckley[/member]

 

[Tayler_mann]

hi i need as much info as i can on working with ACM, i realize that a cnc is prob the best thing, but i want to look into other areas such as the ts saws and routing with the track rail etc. i see that festool make a specialist blade for it to use with the ts saw, can anyone give me any feedback on it ?
regards

My sign shop goes through about 100-200 4 x 8 sheets of dibond a month. There really is nothing special you need any cutter or blade will do the trick. I Just make sure I grab a blade for cutting metal as they stay sharp longer. Also no matter what you cut it with you will need to file the edges to take the edge off OR IT WILL CUT YOU. We use our MFK and OF 1400 a lot for simple shapes or lots of the same shapes with patterns. If it's a very unique shape we put it on the CNC. They both do just fine. Dibond is over priced and I suggest not buying it. I buy Alupanel out of the UK and their product is as rigid square and easy to work with as any other and costs me less than any other supplier.

 

[sucker 4 tools]

thanks guys that is great will have to give it a go ! i am in the uk so will have to see if i can find some blades, as i like the idea of having a specialist blade for the job. I am also using the TSC55 so i am hoping that it wont be to much for the cordless? i will still use an extractor though.
the sharp edges could be an issue maby i can find some sort of flexible U shaped trim that will sit over the edge ?
the festool v grooving tool is £1800 so i wont be getting that, but i have seen that you can get purpose made v groove blades for circ saws so will look into that, it would be awesome to groove it then i can just bend it up. What i would like to make amongst other things is a lot of different shape box's

any links to suppliers in the uk for blades or sheets would be awesome there is a lot of choice in the sheets and it is expensive
regards

 

[Tayler_mann]

thanks guys that is great will have to give it a go ! i am in the uk so will have to see if i can find some blades, as i like the idea of having a specialist blade for the job. I am also using the TSC55 so i am hoping that it wont be to much for the cordless? i will still use an extractor though.
the sharp edges could be an issue maby i can find some sort of flexible U shaped trim that will sit over the edge ?
the festool v grooving tool is £1800 so i wont be getting that, but i have seen that you can get purpose made v groove blades for circ saws so will look into that, it would be awesome to groove it then i can just bend it up. What i would like to make amongst other things is a lot of different shape box's

any links to suppliers in the uk for blades or sheets would be awesome there is a lot of choice in the sheets and it is expensive
regards

Just use a router with a v bit and a track. We have a router that's mounted in our panel saw with a v bit in it and we use it all the time. Doesn't matter how good the router is the stuff cuts like butter even with a hand saw. It is seriously probably one of the easiest materials I have ever cut, bent, painted, and about anything else you can imagine. I wouldn't get to hing up on blades you'll be re sharpening them so much it won't matter if it is a special blade or not. The part that dulls the blade is the poly inside not the aluminum shell. Even with a dull blade I honestly don't know if you can tell the difference of the cut if you would have used a sharp one.

 

[Cheese]

...the sharp edges could be an issue maby i can find some sort of flexible U shaped trim that will sit over the edge ?

Just purchase a deburring tool and run it along the edge, it's fast and it prevents cut hands.
http://www.vargus.com/shaviv/

 

[Holmz]

It sounds like the sign board in Australia which is 3 or 5-mm thick with the Alloy faces very thin.
I used a track saw with the OEM blade and did not have any issue. The 'dust' has static.

 

[mike_aa]

[member=42383]Tayler_mann[/member]

[member=22025]overanalyze[/member]

I don't mean to hijack the OP's thread, but do you have any suggestions where to look to obtain a small quantity of this material?  I'm a hobbyist in the Cleveland, Ohio area.  I've seen ACM mentioned here on FOG and I thought I'd try my hand at fabricating some small panels to extend to the ceiling the fronts of a wall of cabinetry.  I'm trying to match aluminum framed glass doors to go on the fronts of the cabinets.  There are 4 doors and each measures roughly 24 by 80 inches.  The finished ACM panel size would be 10-12 inches high by 23-24 inches wide. 

Thanks in advance for any help you might give.

Mike

 

[rvieceli]

[member=30413]mike_aa[/member]

Are you anywhere near these folks? You could check and see if they have any drops. Alucobond uses them in some of their project galleries.

Carroll Glass 

21721 Tungston Road
Euclid, OH 44117
Phone (216) 261-4965
Fax (216) 261-8172
E-Mail info@carrollglass.com

 

[Tayler_mann]

Not sure where to buy acm unless it is from a supplier. I've always purchased it in such quantities it's really never been hard to find. It actually tends to find me to be honest.

 

[sucker 4 tools]

thanks guys that is great will have to give it a go ! i am in the uk so will have to see if i can find some blades, as i like the idea of having a specialist blade for the job. I am also using the TSC55 so i am hoping that it wont be to much for the cordless? i will still use an extractor though.
the sharp edges could be an issue maby i can find some sort of flexible U shaped trim that will sit over the edge ?
the festool v grooving tool is £1800 so i wont be getting that, but i have seen that you can get purpose made v groove blades for circ saws so will look into that, it would be awesome to groove it then i can just bend it up. What i would like to make amongst other things is a lot of different shape box's

any links to suppliers in the uk for blades or sheets would be awesome there is a lot of choice in the sheets and it is expensive
regards

Just use a router with a v bit and a track. We have a router that's mounted in our panel saw with a v bit in it and we use it all the time. Doesn't matter how good the router is the stuff cuts like butter even with a hand saw. It is seriously probably one of the easiest materials I have ever cut, bent, painted, and about anything else you can imagine. I wouldn't get to hing up on blades you'll be re sharpening them so much it won't matter if it is a special blade or not. The part that dulls the blade is the poly inside not the aluminum shell. Even with a dull blade I honestly don't know if you can tell the difference of the cut if you would have used a sharp one.

Thats great thanks ! not sure what you mean with the router though, does your panel saw take a router ? sounds like a good bit of kit ! is there anything i should know about the v bit like how deep i should cut ? the proper saw's seem to cut a groove with a square bottom so that you can bend the stuff right over easily.

 

[sucker 4 tools]

can anyone advise me to a festool router that is small and works with the rail system ? do the routers come with the guide rail attachments ?

 

[Dane]

@  mike_aa .  You can buy it on ebay in small sheets.  I buy 2'x4' for about 30.00/sheet.

 

[Tayler_mann]

can anyone advise me to a festool router that is small and works with the rail system ? do the routers come with the guide rail attachments ?

I believe the MFK router is compatible with the track system. I bought one and absolutely love it profiling and actually doing pattern work with ACM.

When I groove the material I usually go about halfway through or not quite. I've found it depends on the material you are using some have thicker or thinner aluminum which causes it to snap if your not careful.

Also you need to get the premium material if you want to do any grooving if you buy the economy grade it will just snap. On every sheet there should be a few different logos imprinted on the protective masking; rivit, drill, saw, paint, hot weld, and if it's possible bendable. They are all very self explanatory. The economy grade will just have rivit drill paint and saw.

 

[Holmz]

can anyone advise me to a festool router that is small and works with the rail system ? do the routers come with the guide rail attachments ?

Bosch amd Mafell routers work on a Bosch rail, and Festool and maybe Makita work on festool rails.
The Bosch/Mafell use the Bosch OFA-FSN or something like that.
The Festool have their 32-mm system which is the same (just green instead of teal).

A "V" shaped bit can be set to go almost all the way through.

 

[peter halle]

can anyone advise me to a festool router that is small and works with the rail system ? do the routers come with the guide rail attachments ?

Bosch amd Mafell routers work on a Bosch rail, and Festool and maybe Makita work on festool rails.
The Bosch/Mafell use the Bosch OFA-FSN or something like that.
The Festool have their 32-mm system which is the same (just green instead of teal).

A "V" shaped bit can be set to go almost all the way through.

I think the question was which Festool routers work on the rail system.  The Festool 1010 and the 1400 are the most used routers on the rails.  The guide rail attachments are an accessory because not everyone uses this aspect.

Peter