CXS 12 electronic clutch versus CXS "Classic" mechanical clutch

[escapegoat]

How does the electronic clutch on the new CXS 12 compare to the mechanical clutch on the CXS "Classic"? I'm considering upgrading, but the e-clutch has me a little worried. There's a warm fuzzy feeling I get when I use my CXS Classic and I'm wondering if the CXS 12 still provides the same magic.

The reason to upgrade would be for access to the extended set of accessories, and a turn-key attic lid Systainer. Curious if the core tool experience is better, worse, or about the same. I do a lot of driving on 1 - 3 on the CXS for #6 and #8 screws.

 

[Hawkeye0001]

I held out long but eventually bougt one, it's still hard to cast a judgement on it.

In my opinion it's greatest strength - providing a lot more power than the old CXS in an even smaller package - is also it's greatest weakness. The new clutch allows you to drive a lot larger screws a lot faster but it's also veeeery easy to drive screws way too far beyond the point where the CXS 10.8 had it's sweet spot and you'd know it sits flush. The old clutch had a very linear and predicatable feel to it, the new one feels like it's more of a curve.

If you do cabinetry I think it's a decent upgrade and you can completely forgo a midrange drill like the CXS 18 or even C18 if you wanted to. But if your work is more delicate (think cigar cases, doll houses, electronics repairs or automotive) 100% keep the old one.

 

[simonh]

I have a CXS original and a big TPC18/4. So, this is not direct experience of the models you asked about. However, I find the electronic clutch on the TPC seems to easily become knocked without me even knowing. That's something that never happens with the mechanical clutch on the CXS.

 

[bwehman]

I love the new CXS and don't regret selling the old one. BUT... my ears disagree. The new one achieves this pitch that is borderline deafening for me. Still stoked on all the other improvements, but definitely keep that in mind if your hearing is sensitive or if you're adverse to wearing hearing protection.

 

[bertv]

There is a great update to the original CXS (and TXS): the bigger battery that superseeds that L-shaped one. Will still work on the original charger, but delivers a lot more juice. I think this upgrade is really worth it. (Did it for my two OG CXS's…)

 

[Imemiter]

Curious if the core tool experience is better, worse, or about the same. I do a lot of driving on 1 - 3 on the CXS for #6 and #8 screws.

I'll just say that having experienced them both, I won't be selling my CXS. (Even tho' I was kind of hoping too.) The CXS12 is bigger, heavier, stronger and yes, louder - with a bigger, heavier Systainer that I don't see as a plus. It's a very nice drill but too close in size to my TXS18. The CXS, otoh, is still exactly what I need in a small drill. Having other 12v Festools on the horizon might give me pause, but if they exist they'd be years out and likely NAINA. 

 

[escapegoat]

But if your work is more delicate (think cigar cases, doll houses, electronics repairs or automotive) 100% keep the old one.

Thanks, this is a clarifying statement. Perhaps the CXS Classic was an answer to the prompt, "design the best driver for cabinetry and other light fastening tasks from the ground up", and the CXS 12 is an answer to the prompt, "wrap our new brushless platform in a 12V CXS format". Unfortunately, even if the old CXS was the better tool, there is a market perception that non-brushless drills/drivers are outdated and they get dissed in reviews. That, and the business efficiencies of a shared brushless platform probably made the retirement of the old CXS/TXS inevitable. I just wish they had gone through some extra trouble to integrate a mechanical clutch into the lower power drivers instead of copy and pasting the e-clutch control algo.

 

[SoonerFan]

I have not used the CXS 12 so I cannot comment on it. I do have the “classic” CXS and it is by far my most used drill. I like the form factor and for my needs (mostly building cabinets) it’s terrific.  I can drive most all screws I used with the CXS. It fits great in tight spaces and the right angle attachment works great for me. I use the mechanical clutch all the time, especially when installing Blum hardware, knobs/pulls, etc. The clutch is terrific. I have used it so much I know the needed setting for the task.  If the CXS 12 is that much better I won’t know until mine dies because it does everything I need. 

 

[Cheese]

There is a great update to the original CXS (and TXS): the bigger battery that superseeds that L-shaped one. Will still work on the original charger, but delivers a lot more juice. I think this upgrade is really worth it. (Did it for my two OG CXS's…)

This is what Bert was referring to. The new battery has 75% more power compared to the original battery. It also has a wider base that allows the original CXS to remain upright when a larger drill bit is placed in the chuck. It's definitely worth the additional $$.

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[escapegoat]

There is a great update to the original CXS (and TXS): the bigger battery that superseeds that L-shaped one. Will still work on the original charger, but delivers a lot more juice. I think this upgrade is really worth it. (Did it for my two OG CXS's…)

This is what Bert was referring to. The new battery has 75% more power compared to the original battery. It also has a wider base that allows the original CXS to remain upright when a larger drill bit is placed in the chuck. It's definitely worth the additional $$.

Yep, I have the newer style battery. By CXS Classic, I meant the final iteration of the brushed motor CXS with the improved battery. However, the brushed CXS is mechanically identical across the two battery geometries as far as I know.

I just used my CXS Classic to repair a panel on my Bosch dishwasher. Can't think of anything I would change, except maybe making an eccentric chuck available.

 

[Jim_in_PA]

Yep, I have the newer style battery. By CXS Classic, I meant the final iteration of the brushed motor CXS with the improved battery. However, the brushed CXS is mechanically identical across the two battery geometries as far as I know.

I updated the batteries for my 'original-original' to the newer, better, flat pack batteries when they became available. My second CSX is the same tool outside of some minor updates, including a better battery condition indicator. Both of these drill/drivers have been very reliable and they are my go-to for most things.

Now I do have a concern about the CSX18 I bought to compliment them as it seems to only be providing one speed (slow) at the present time and I need to address that with Festool.

 

[fritter63]

I've had a CXS for years, probably my favorite tool. I now have two (long story, bought one from my brother and he never used it so he sent it to me). So now I have an old barely used one too!

I recently bought a CXS 18. Power and torque is incredible but I have to say I'm still not used to the clutch and seems like it still overdrives even on like 2 or 3.

I have to say that I much prefer the old "click click click" when the clutch activates. I plan to keep them both and use the CXS for most screws especially pocket screws.

 

[mrboult]

There is a great update to the original CXS (and TXS): the bigger battery that superseeds that L-shaped one. Will still work on the original charger, but delivers a lot more juice. I think this upgrade is really worth it. (Did it for my two OG CXS's…)

This is what Bert was referring to. The new battery has 75% more power compared to the original battery. It also has a wider base that allows the original CXS to remain upright when a larger drill bit is placed in the chuck. It's definitely worth the additional $$.

Yep, I have the newer style battery. By CXS Classic, I meant the final iteration of the brushed motor CXS with the improved battery. However, the brushed CXS is mechanically identical across the two battery geometries as far as I know.

I just used my CXS Classic to repair a panel on my Bosch dishwasher. Can't think of anything I would change, except maybe making an eccentric chuck available.

I’m pretty sure the Max RPM increased by 50 or 100rpm when they updated to the ‘new 2.6ah flat battery’ version.

 

[Cheese]

I’m pretty sure the Max RPM increased by 50 or 100rpm when they updated to the ‘new 2.6ah flat battery’ version.

You are correct,  [smile]  the smaller battery was rated at 0-400 and 0-1200 rpm while the new battery is rated at 0-430 and 0-1300 rpm.

 

[serge0n]

The new electronic clutch is great. In terms of repeatability I think it's better than the old mechanical clutch.
However, the new CXS has 2 problems:
1) It's way too powerful
2) It's loud

Driving #6 and smaller screws is annoying as the new drill will strip or overdrive them even with clutch set to 1. I could drive #4 screws with my eyes closed using the old CXS. Even #8 screws can sometimes be problematic on the lowest clutch setting with the new CXS.

And yeah, it is loud. Not ear splitting loud as some people report, but loud enough to notice.

For me, the biggest issue with the old CXS was its obnoxious length. I couldn't use it inside some cabinets without switching to the angle adapter which is far from ideal. You are already working in a tight space with very little room to maneuver and now you need to use both hands to drive the screw. New CXS solves that problem.
That and a much faster drilling speed (1600 RPM!) was why I upgraded and sold the old CXS.
If I wasn't hard pressed on shop space, I'd keep both.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Thanks [member=50918]serge0n[/member] I had not heard about that. The sound has been mentioned quite a bit, but never the clutch settings. For my use, that's a deal-breaker, since I like the friction clutch.
The size of the main body could be shorter, but it's not worth the other issues.
From what I have seen, they just changed the length for height and added weight.

 

[escapegoat]

The new electronic clutch is great. In terms of repeatability I think it's better than the old mechanical clutch.
However, the new CXS has 2 problems:
1) It's way too powerful
2) It's loud

Driving #6 and smaller screws is annoying as the new drill will strip or overdrive them even with clutch set to 1. I could drive #4 screws with my eyes closed using the old CXS. Even #8 screws can sometimes be problematic on the lowest clutch setting with the new CXS.

Good to hear some partial positive feedback about the e-clutch. When it strips #6 screws at the lowest setting, is the drill running near top speed? I'm wondering if motor and gearbox inertia are to blame*.

*The mechanical clutch isolates the driver end from the powertrain the moment it kicks in. The e-clutch isn't a real clutch in that it doesn't isolate the driver end from the powertrain. It requires a non-zero amount of time to stop. The braking force can come from (a) a negative torque commanded to the motor, and (b) mechanical work applied to the material in the form of over-torque. Case (a) can be modeled as an RPM-dependent over-rotation of X degrees. Case (b) can be modeled as an energy transfer to the fastener.  Running the drill at a lower speed would reduce X, and reduce the rotational energy available to be transferred to the fastener. If they wanted to be more sophisticated, they could make the torque threshold RPM dependent to compensate for the decel time. However, the threshold for "early braking" is dependent upon material and fastener properties, which the drill has no visibility into. I think I've just talked myself into the sad conclusion that an e-clutch can never truly replicate the behavior of a mechanical clutch, and that this is especially problematic at low torques in soft materials at high RPMs.

 

[mrboult]

I rarely use/trust a drill clutch as a stopping point, variation in wood density/hardness will stop all results being equal, regardless of perfect torque/clutch performance. In my experience.

I will use the clutch more as an ‘assist’ to regulate the power more to the task in hand. The ultimate stopping point is always decided by me.

That said, i hated the old cxs clutch, and while loving the drill, i ultimately thought it was feeble af. I don’t think the new drill could be called overpowered, but it is no longer feeble. I haven’t yet stripped a single screw with the new CXS that wasn’t entirely my fault. . Just my experience/opinion

It’s too loud though! And that is the only thing stopping it being my fave drill. So the T18 remains my fave drill ever. . It’s laughable how much quieter it is than the new CXS despite being in a different realm of power.

I set my new CXS to 5 on the torque, where it is quite all the time and still powerful enough for the little fiddly hardware jobs that a CXS shines. And if I need more power for a second, this drill has it. But if I have more than 2 big screws or holes to do, I’ll get the quieter more powerful T18.

 

[Cheese]

There are some strange electro/mechanical things going on with the new CXS 12. I sent mine in for service about 5 weeks ago but Festool is still waiting for several parts.

The 1st issue is that the speed would change by itself. If the speed switch was set to low, sometimes it would change to high, then back to low and then go back to high. Not all the time but  intermittently on a project. The same thing would happen if the speed switch was set to high, the drill speeds kept changing or NOT at all.  [huh]  This was relatively easy to notice because as the speeds changed, the sound of the drill changed also from the "nice" sound to the "scream".

The 2nd issue is that I could be driving in a screw and the clutch would kick in prematurely and beep. If I released the trigger and then pulled the trigger again, sometimes the clutch function would change to be proper but sometimes it would remain premature and continue to beep. At one point I pulled and released the trigger 6 times, without removing the driver bit from the screw, before the clutch worked as it should.

I hope Festool sorts out the CXS 12 product line as I use it more than the CXS 10.8 because of its power and size.

 

[Kevison]

I totally understand your hesitation about switching to the CXS 12 with the electronic clutch. I had a CXS Classic for a while, and when I upgraded, I was worried about losing that familiar feel. But honestly, once I got used to the e-clutch, it felt really smooth and reliable. I do a lot of driving for #6 and #8 screws too, and I found the CXS 12 handles it well. Plus, the extra accessories and that Systainer are super handy! You still get that precision you love, just with a bit of new tech to adapt to.