CXS Centrotec Bit

[semenza]

Some needless rude comments have been removed from this thread. Along with some replies that were based on those comments to keep continuity.

It would be great if the rudeness was left off the forum.

Maybe we could all be POZI-tive rather than bashing. (oh, that's bad  [ban] )

Thanks,

Seth

 

[semenza]

FWIW...this is probably a US problem more than anywhere else in the world. Pozidrive screws just do not exist in the US, and if you want to use a Pozidrive screw, you have to seek them out. So actually, I'd say overall, this would be a pretty common mistaken identity issue over here.

I'd be willing to make a bet, that I could give several of my motorcycle mechanic buddies a Pozidrive bit to remove Phillips screws on their bikes and they'd just dig right in and round out/butcher both the bit and the screw.  [eek]

This surprises me, I seem to remember that I saw an episode of either The New Yankee Workshop or This Old House where Norm Abram did a segment on the different screw head types available.

Pozi drive is certainly available in the USA, but far from common.

Seth

 

[AlexThePalex]

The wiki quote above is 'wrong'. PZ is not an 'improvement' on PH, it just suits different needs.

Well, everybody decides for himself of course what suits him best. But as it is, currently most people prefer pozi over phillips. In Europe Phillips is luckily almost completely phased out. The extra grip pozi provides is seen by most people as an improvement because it saves a lot of cam outs and you can apply a higer torque to the screw. It has also the benefit that the screw sticks better to the bit when you hold it up before sticking it in the material.

PH heads are designed with a taper in the X-slot so that the bit will drive itself out when you try to overtighten the screw. That feature certainly has its place in a shop (especially automotive).

I myself really don't see why camming out has a place in the shop. It is a destructive thing where both bit and screw are damaged, which makes unscrewing more difficult. This design for camming out comes from a time when power drills had no adjustable torque feature. Today all drills have a slip coupling with adjustable torque so you yourself decide when the screw is tightened enough without any camming out. And besides that, I can't help but think that relying on camming out is a sloppy way of working.

I grew up in a body shop so I worked on many cars in the 80's and 90's, taking them apart and putting them back together after they were spray painted. On cars the critical parts are mostly connected by bolts, and screws are used only for small parts where the exact tightening force isn't really that important anyway.

The large improvement of grip you get with Pozi is for most people much more important than the benefit of the cam out function (if any) and that's why almost everybody, including wikipedia calls it an improvement.

 

[Stephen B]

I wish PoziDrive screws were more common down here, very hard to get. The two largest Hardware Chains in Australasia do not sell them, but strangely do sell the drive Bitts. Probably because the quality Bitts tend to be European brands and also one of them sells Blum.

 

[MGB]

I got a ph2 with my cxs in canada

I just recently learned of pozidrive screw/bits. My dewalt(elu) router uses them on the base plate. Plus various euro hardware/ikea stuff.

I really like them they almost hold like a robertson. If I recall correctly a pz2 seems to fit a ph3 quite well.

 

[Bohdan]

I wish PoziDrive screws were more common down here, very hard to get. The two largest Hardware Chains in Australasia do not sell them, but strangely do sell the drive Bitts. Probably because the quality Bitts tend to be European brands and also one of them sells Blum.

The screws that they do sell are all Asian made and are probably ISO not Phillips. The cheap Asian screwdrivers are mostly ISO and though the Phillips screwdrivers fit the ISO screws the ISO drivers don't fit the Phillips screws properly as they have longer points.

 

[copcarcollector]

Sorry to stray off topic a bit, but just saw these at Home depot tonight, LOX bits. Anyone familiar with this style screw?

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]

 

[Cheese]

Well, if my memory serves me correctly...which could be up for conjecture, the Phillips head screw was an improvement over the slotted head screw for the installation of door hinges on automobiles in the early 30's. Using slotted head screws torqued to the proper spec usually resulted in damaged screw heads which then resulted in insufficient torque being applied to the hinge screws.

GM decided they needed to find a fastener that would allow the appropriate amount of torque to be applied to the door hinge while still not damaging the fastener head. Thus the birth of the Phillips head screw with its automatic cam-out action. That was 85 years ago, fortunately, times have changed.

With the advent and popularization of the Torx, Robertson,and Pozidriv screw heads, among others, in the last 20 years, who really wants or needs to use a Phillips head screw that has a built-in cam-out feature?
That's something that was needed 80 years ago, before they invented automated torque limiting screw drivers, so I think the Phillips head screw should be ushered into the dust bin of history as it has long over stayed it welcome, and this includes the drywall variants.

 

[fritter63]

I only use torx screws now just so don't get confused....[emoji41]

 

[McNally Family]

I suspect this type problem could be avoided by also purchasing the Centrotec Installer Set (201312).  I recently purchased both (CXS (564535), and my very first project was to install some under counter lighting.  I took the light fixture and opened my Installer kit and perfectly matched the very small screw heads the light used to secure the fixture.  Fit like a glove!  Now I am wondering if I really need to keep the 35 or so, assorted screwdrivers I have accumulated over the years.

 

[stidrvr]

I suspect this type problem could be avoided by also purchasing the Centrotec Installer Set (201312).  I recently purchased both (CXS (564535), and my very first project was to install some under counter lighting.  I took the light fixture and opened my Installer kit and perfectly matched the very small screw heads the light used to secure the fixture.  Fit like a glove!  Now I am wondering if I really need to keep the 35 or so, assorted screwdrivers I have accumulated over the years.

Believe me, I've been lusting over it. At the very least I need to get the twinbox set.

 

[Cheese]

Get the twin box set, nice bits, pretty inexpensive and it will give you an idea as to how well you like the Festool bits. I've used Apex bits for the last 15 years, made in the USA and available in 2 or 3 different hardnesses. Some real nice stuff.
A few years back I purchased the Festool bits and I think they are the equal of the the Apex stuff. They are also about the same price and more readily available. The Apex bits are usually a special order item as most houses don't stock the full line of Apex bits.

 

[Cheese]

I've used Apex bits for the last 15 years, made in the USA and available in 2 or 3 different hardnesses.

I forgot to add, that along with offering 3 different bit hardnesses, Apex also offers 18 different drive styles, 3-4 different bit lengths and both magnetized and non-magnetized styles. However, none are Centrotec friendly. [sad]
http://products.apex-tools.com/tools/bits

 

[yetihunter]

I can confirm that I have seen US Festool kit supplied with either Phillips #2 or Pozidrive #2, sporadically.
As a matter of fact, of the two I own, one came with PH, the other came with PZ.