D*mn you Melamine

[ear3]

So on the last day of my installation build, I had to cut some Melamine surfaced chipboard to put in a floor.  It was too late in the day to go out and get the laminate blade from a dealer (I don't truck with Melamine, so it's not something I had on hand), so I thought I could get away with just using the standard 36T TS75 blade -- it was only a single 6 ft. cut right?  Well, just tried to use the TS75 for the first time since then on some regular 3/4 ply, and had the blade really struggle to get through the 8 ft. cut.  When the cut was finished I inspected the edge and found blade marks in multiple places.  Took off the blade, examined the teeth and discovered that a number of them were chipped.  Guess I have to schedule a blade sharpening sooner than anticipated.

So lesson learned, and hopefully a warning to others who might be as ignorant as I was about what Melamine can do to a standard saw blade. 

 

[mike_aa]

Edward,
Sorry to hear of your experience. 

I haven't used either of my Festool TS saws to cut any melamine yet, but before I got them I used a circular saw with a standard big box store 60 tooth Diablo blade to cut about 100 feet of melamine.  Afterwards, I used it to cut through 3/4 inch plywood and didn't notice any difference in the cut quality or damage to the blade.  I even used the same setup later when my TS55 was in the shop to crosscut a 6/4 slab and I got a nice silky cut that needed very little sanding before finishing.

The only time I've ever chipped teeth on a saw blade is when I hit a masonry nail embedded in a piece of wood I was cutting.  What do you think might have caused the chipping?  Is there something about the composition of the melamine you cut (laminate flooring)?  Was it caused by the blade geometry, a problem with the carbide, or maybe something else you cut that day?

Mike A.

 

[Linbro]

I'd be very surprised if it was the melamine that chipped the blade - but it does dull teeth very quickly, if it's not the right blade, which a 36 tooth definitely isn't.

 

[Holmz]

... 60 tooth Diablo ...

Crikey! it sounds like a hydra?

And makes me wonder if Diablo, Melamine, and Idi Amin are all related?

 

[ear3]

Yeah, I was frankly surprised as well. But I had only swapped in that blade about two weeks prior, and had only used it on ply and 3/4 pine and oak, on which it had done a fine job, so the melamine seems to be the only possible culprit.

It ultimately works to my advantage (though to the disadvantage of my bank account) -- since I got that fresh 36t blade, I hadn't yet gotten around to getting the old one sharpened, so this morning I found myself with no sharp blades except the panthrt, which I had just gotten in the post btw for some upcoming thick hardwood rips.  So I made a trip to the dealer and picked up the 52t fine blade and got back to work breaking down the ply. Really impressed with the cut quality on the 52t, and glad to have added it to my arsenal.

I'd be very surprised if it was the melamine that chipped the blade - but it does dull teeth very quickly, if it's not the right blade, which a 36 tooth definitely isn't.

 

[Brent Taylor]

One of the tricks I have used in the past when I was using a regular C saw was to use the old fashioned plywood rail and set the cut depth shallow 2 or 3 mm max and push the saw to the end of the cut, raise the blade guard,  score the material backwards,  then set the blade to full depth of cut and cut the material as usual.  Of course now I use my Makita track saw that has a score cut feature. Also use a jug saw and router on more than one occasion.  Just the fun of being of being a carpenter, always have to be able to think on your feet, that's why we get the big bucks.  (And all those others think they're so smart  [laughing]) B

 

[sae]

One of the tricks I have used in the past when I was using a regular C saw was to use the old fashioned plywood rail and set the cut depth shallow 2 or 3 mm max and push the saw to the end of the cut, raise the blade guard,  score the material backwards,  then set the blade to full depth of cut and cut the material as usual.  Of course now I use my Makita track saw that has a score cut feature. Also use a jug saw and router on more than one occasion.  Just the fun of being of being a carpenter, always have to be able to think on your feet, that's why we get the big bucks.  (And all those others think they're so smart  [laughing]) B

[member=37891]Brent Taylor[/member]
This is the second time I've heard about scoring it backwards, is this really how it's supposed to be done?

 

[Brent Taylor]

It was  the way I was taught a long time ago  by a Swedish cabinet maker and furniture builder, and a sorely missed friend. and mentor. I currently don't do it with my Makita TS, but I use the -1degree tilt and the score function with the big box melamine.  It also works with plywood veneers and regular plastic laminatedo substrates. 

 

[mo siopa]

I would think something other that the typical wear from melamine caused the chipping.  Maybe some debris or even resin balls in the core.  The Big Box stores tend to have a lower quality board with more bark and other debris in the core but even the best manufacturers let some get through the process.  Virtually all of the particleboard in the US uses some recycled material- such as old pallets. The manufacturers use powerful magnets to remove any steel particles and cyclones to remove other debris after chipping up the wood but sometimes things like small stones slip through.

 

[Linbro]

One of the tricks I have used in the past when I was using a regular C saw was to use the old fashioned plywood rail and set the cut depth shallow 2 or 3 mm max and push the saw to the end of the cut, raise the blade guard,  score the material backwards,  then set the blade to full depth of cut and cut the material as usual.  Of course now I use my Makita track saw that has a score cut feature. Also use a jug saw and router on more than one occasion.  Just the fun of being of being a carpenter, always have to be able to think on your feet, that's why we get the big bucks.  (And all those others think they're so smart  [laughing]) B

[member=37891]Brent Taylor[/member]
This is the second time I've heard about scoring it backwards, is this really how it's supposed to be done?

The scoring blade on sliding panel saws spins the opposite way to the main blade. That way the teeth cut up into the underside of the material first, instead of down through the underside face of the material. Hard to explain, makes sense when you see it in action.