Deck Ledger Flashed Wrong - Advice??

[skids]

Ok so What was a simple pulling of a board to inspect some rot turned into a can of worms. i will attach a picture or two so to can see how the builder flashed the ledger on my ten year old deck.

My question is simple: is there a way for me to back this deck off my house while leaving as much in tact as possible? Basically all the structural lumber is still good and want to see if anyone had any nifty tricks on whether I could back the ledger off the house enough with deck structure still attached while I cut out and inspect the rotted sheathing.

I know it sounds crazy. But as to can see the deck was flashed backwards. Yes the flashing goes behind the ledger!! Idiots. I was going to just reflash it close it up and call it a day but I will alway ls wonder what's going on behind that ledger board if I dont pull it out and inspect. Just wanted to see if there is a surgical way to go a out this with minimal disruption and cost.

 

[skids]

Here's a few pics of the screwy flashing and the rotted sheathing

My thought was to 1) remove decking its 12x12

2) to cut joist hangers off ledger and ease to the ground remove ledger the I cut out and replace sheathing (assuming band joist isn't rotted)

3) reinstall longer ledger reflash and expand reinstall joists to ledger

4) expand deck off of larger ledger

Sound like a good plan?

 

[PeterK]

Any idea how far back into the wood the rot goes?
Is it still solid enough under the door threshold?
If it is just that small spot, I know I would just dig out the loose wood, fill it with gobs of caulk, install a new long L flashing under the door opening and put the deck top back on. Had an almost identical situation on my house 20 years ago and that is what I did. Still good to this day. I did use a LOT of caulk sealing up any potential water entry points.

 

[peter halle]

How far off the ground is your deck?

 

[skids]

How far off the ground is your deck?

2 feet maybe 2.5 feet at best

 

[Kevin Stricker]

Build a temporary beam to support the inside of the deck, use rented jacks or doubled 2x4 posts every 4 feet to support it. Remove joist hangers, remove ledger and hope for the best. Good news is you appear close to grade, I have had to replace the entire side of a home before due to improper (none in this case) flashing.  Don't cut back the joists.

Deck surgery is usually not as scary as it first appears.

 

[skids]

Build a temporary beam to support the inside of the deck, use rented jacks or doubled 2x4 posts every 4 feet to support it. Remove joist hangers, remove ledger and hope for the best. Good news is you appear close to grade, I have had to replace the entire side of a home before due to improper (none in this case) flashing.  Don't cut back the joists.

Deck surgery is usually not as scary as it first appears.

Ok good thinking here but I need to know a couple of things

1) how am I going to be able to access the ledger and ultimatey whats behind it freely if I all I have done is essentially removed the joist hangers. That will give me some wiggle room but not enough for a circular saw to make a few passes to remove rot.

2) should I remove all the decking with your technique?

 

[Dane]

Just do it right.  Invariably, when you try to get too clever with things like that, it ends up taking just as long, if not longer than just doing it the right way.  You are already planning to take the decking off, that's going to be the most time consuming part.  Pulling the frame apart won't take any time at all.

Oh, and don't bother with flashing the ledger- use stand offs so the water can flow behind it.  Make sure the structural members of the house are protected, that's way more important.

 

[skids]

Just do it right.  Invariably, when you try to get too clever with things like that, it ends up taking just as long, if not longer than just doing it the right way.  You are already planning to take the decking off, that's going to be the most time consuming part.  Pulling the frame apart won't take any time at all.

Oh, and don't bother with flashing the ledger- use stand offs so the water can flow behind it.  Make sure the structural members of the house are protected, that's way more important.

Agreed..Although I did want to salveage the decking, not sure I can now. But I can't use stand offs (washers essentially) anyway because that requires bolts/nuts, and I don't have access to the entire span of band joist behind the deck inside the house (finished basement). You can't use lags with stand offs. Anyway I would probably just mvoe to timberlocks once I reattached the new ledger..But yes, you're right that is the preferred method if you ask me. Air flows freely and dries things out. Not sure why a ledger EVER touches a house quite honestly.

I still can't believe a builder flashed this way and I can't believe it eluded a building inspector. Why should I pull permits for anything they sure don't know what the heck they are doing.

 

[fatroman]

In case you haven't seen this: http://www.strongtie.com/ftp/bulletins/T-DECKLATLOAD11.pdf

Looks like your builder missed a number of connectors, unless you started pulling them out of the hangers. Which would make me suspicious about any number of details that were missed. Not that you don't have plenty of evidence to that already.

You might consider turning it into a free standing deck, and then repairing the damage to to house.

 

[skids]

In case you haven't seen this: http://www.strongtie.com/ftp/bulletins/T-DECKLATLOAD11.pdf

Looks like your builder missed a number of connectors, unless you started pulling them out of the hangers. Which would make me suspicious about any number of details that were missed. Not that you don't have plenty of evidence to that already.

You might consider turning it into a free standing deck, and then repairing the damage to to house.

I think iirc is the reference up here not Simpson. They just want to sell you a ton of fasteners!! For the time period they attached it to the house right they just flashed wrong. Overall shoddy builder grade deck. My turn to re detail it

 

[Brice Burrell]

It's hard to say just what is going on over the internet but here's a guess.  I think the problem is not bad flashing for the deck but rather the sliding door.  The rot along the bottom of the slider, does it go all the way to the left edge of the slider and towards the outlet?  I think it is possible water is getting in someplace up higher, possibly at the top of the slider, running down the side under the Protecto wrap to the bottom of the slider, where it's trapped and rotting the sheathing.  If that is it, then I'd look to stop the water infiltration, determine the scope of rot to get a better sense how to proceed.  If you think I might be on to something then I'm afraid you may need to strip siding off around the slider.  If the rot is limited to the bottom of the slider like we see in the pictures then I might do nothing to repair the sheathing. But let's see if I'm on the right track first.  

Is the top of the slider still water tight?
Can you see any rot to the sheathing behind ledger from the basement?

You might find these video from Gary Katz helpful, This is Carpentry: My New Home: Installing Windows & Doors and Waterproof Window Installation.

 

[skids]

Boy a ts 55 would be nice about now

 

[skids]

It's hard to say just what is going on over the internet but here's a guess.  I think the problem is not bad flashing for the deck but rather the sliding door.  The rot along the bottom of the slider, does it go all the way to the left edge of the slider and towards the outlet?  I think it is possible water is getting in someplace up higher, possibly at the top of the slider, running down the side under the Protecto wrap to the bottom of the slider, where it's trapped and rotting the sheathing.  If that is it, then I'd look to stop the water infiltration, determine the scope of rot to get a better sense how to proceed.  If you think I might be on to something then I'm afraid you may need to strip siding off around the slider.  If the rot is limited to the bottom of the slider like we see in the pictures then I might do nothing to repair the sheathing. But let's see if I'm on the right track first. 

Is the top of the slider still water tight?
Can you see any rot to the sheathing behind ledger from the basement?

You might find these video from Gary Katz helpful, This is Carpentry: My New Home: Installing Windows & Doors and Waterproof Window Installation.

Fair enough I will inspect that..although i installed the slider and I am fairly certain it's not
The issue but worth inspecting.

What about the goofy flashing job at the deck?

 

[skids]

Here is the top of the slider. Toight like a tiger

 

[peter halle]

Regarding how to get enough room.  Measure 1.5 inches back on the joists and strike vertical lines on your joists.  Cut your joists back after installing temporary bracing underneath as already suggested.  Now you get get the ledger off.  If you go this route you will be installing two ledgers to make up the difference.

I am tending to agree with Brice about the possibility that the damage might be localized to the door area.  One of the culprits that I have seen with sliders in my area is the threshold / jamb intersection.

Good Luck!

Peter

 

[skids]

Regarding how to get enough room.  Measure 1.5 inches back on the joists and strike vertical lines on your joists.  Cut your joists back after installing temporary bracing underneath as already suggested.  Now you get get the ledger off.  If you go this route you will be installing two ledgers to make up the difference.

I am tending to agree with Brice about the possibility that the damage might be localized to the door area.  One of the culprits that I have seen with sliders in my area is the threshold / jamb intersection.

Good Luck!

Peter

I may not remove the ledger...It's going to be a complete pain in the arse. And quite honestly there isn't so much rot that a proper flashing job won't allow to dry out. If the rot were worse I would rip it all out but I think it's isolated to those two spots on each end of the slider.

My plan:

pull siding, hit what little rotted areas there are with Petriwood
expand ledger another 8 feet

reflash

reinstall decking and at slider I will shim the last board up an 1/8 inch to pitch water away

Lastly, never open a can of worms like this again. My wife is none too happy with me..Three kids 5 and under that can't use the deck when the sun is shining will do that to a woman.

 

[Kevin Stricker]

I think your idea is a good one, as long as you are sure that the sheathing is not rotting under the ledger.  Removing the ledger is easier than it sounds though, so don't blow your chance to fix things right.  Once you have removed the joist hangers, remove the lag bolts and use a small sledge to drop the ledger out the bottom.  It doesn't look like their is any siding below so it should be pretty easy.  Easier than replacing a rim joist beam 10' above grade on a 500sqft deck like I had to do in the snow just last month. Now that was a blast.

Make sure you are utilizing the 2009 IRC deck guide for a baseline on your new construction.  Also you want to use Ledgerloks not timberloks to attach the new ledger on your expansion.  

Good luck, looks like you are busy at it.

 

[Bikeboy80]

Are there any windows above the slider? I tend to find leaks always start higher up then expected.

 

[tjbnwi]

The flashing in post 2 appears to have the wall leg of the flashing is tucked behind the ledger. The leg should be up and tucked behind the WRB. I also add a secondary flashing that goes over the deck planks.

When you installed the door, the lower siding should have been removed a Z flashing fabricated that tucked under the Protect O Wrap, down the face of the wall, then over the deck planks.

Tom