Dewalt Top 17 Voting is open - need some support

Mike,

I've followed along with the DeWalt Top 17 Carpenter Contest; I've reviewed each project entry, and read the blogs. I am, to say the least, perplexed at the current results of the voting process. 

I've read your tool comparison reviews you've posted and other critiques of yours.
As a man that represent himself as knowledgeable enough to share his opinion, and open minded enough to comparing apples to apples, I'm sure you and you followers can respect my review of your "Play kitchen Project".

First and foremost your design and execution of this "Play kitchen" Project is riddle with Design flaws, Hazardous, Unsafe and potentially life threatening defects and an almost total disregard for safety.

  I will briefly outline the major Red Flags and ask that you and your followers simply reflect on the reality Your project does not compare to those of the ?professionals that think they have this contest in the bag.

Unsafe design: The sharp and pointed edges & corners on every door, drawer, face frame and box edge should have been softened with a rounded over edge. It's apparent in the video, that a 22 month old child is unstable on their feet and prone to tripping and falling into any of the sharp edges you left on this "play set".

Hazardous and potentially fatal design flaw:
There was no consideration taken with the respect of any "Anti-Tipping" features included in the design.
Children have a natural curiosity nd need to climb in, on, over and through nearly everything.  With the door to the refrigerator open and the lower drawer extended it shifts the center of gravity to a fulcrum point focused on the two front adjustable feet.
It would take very little downward force, such as a child merely sitting, standing or climbing on the drawer to create an off balance forward tipping motion.  I'm sure this will be met with the argument that, (Hopefully) it doesn't happen. Had you actually thought of this in the original design, you most certainly would have disclosed it in your blog, don't try now, you know it was never considered in the design.

Pinch points, Finger traps and Clothing Catches:
The selfclosing euro hinges you used have a spring loaded snap point that, although not very dangerous, presents an unpleasant experience when a small hand is slapped by the door.

The use of industrially hardware racks, shelves and glides create a variety of  "Pinch points", "Finger Traps" and "Clothing Catches".
Needless to say, no consideration was taken in the design or application of any moving part with respect to a child's little fingers being pinched, smashed or worse.

The pair of hinged glass doors on the range is a great potential for injury.
Again this is where Rounded / softened edges would assist in limiting a child?s fingers from being caught between and cut. The gap between the doors is not wide enough to prevent a "vise like" finger trap when caught between them. Nor have I seen an oven with French doors, details man.

I find the use of real burners, drip pans and range knobs a very poor detail on many levels. First and foremost is this is a "pretend" set. The incorporation of actual appliance parts, lends itself to the lack of imagination and ingenuity of the designer/builder to keep this project in the true spirit of its intention, a "child play set".  Simple round disks of wood with a routed spiral would have added a more creative, Fun detail.

The same goes for the range control knobs; these could be just as easily created in the same fashion, a small disk, a rounded, flat piece of wood and a dowel rod. The fact that the bolted on knobs don't even turn is simply boring to a child in their development stages. This leads to the use of what appears to be a rather expensive faucet. Again, no attempt taken to fabricate a fun, pretend fixture from bits of wood and dowels rod.

A look at the picture of the sink with the open doors, I see under the sink what appears to be the plumbing connections poking through the underneath side. Why?  They serve no purpose other than to create yet another potential hazard, or at the very least, a snag point for loose clothing, I hope you took the time capped the open ends so little fingers don?t find a way to get stuck inside the pipes. Of course you did.

This "play set" is wired live with electricity? With the total disregard of the previous mentioned hazards, I'd hope you would at the very least employed feature with respect to minimize the potential electric shock factor.

A Flashlight bulb and a battery would be a safer alternative. Incorporating a red lens would create that imaginary "Heat" effect this project so desperately lacks. And what fun it is for a child to turn on & off the Heat with a switch.

The "Play set" does not have a finish on it. young children love bright, bold, vibrant colors. It stimulates there developing brains to "play Pretend and make believe games". Where you have failed to create a well thought out design is clearly trumped by the fact that you forgot who this project was for,
A child.

That explains why a "hobbyist is trying to show up the professional Carpenter", your creditability is greatly flawed by what you desperately lack in moral fiber. The deficit of talent you display in your "hobby" has changed the DeWalt Top Carpenter contest into a farce, with you as the leader. I feel sorry those professionals whom you disgrace, But more so for DeWalt if they have to present your "Play kitchen" as the BEST that can be made with their tools. It?s Cute, Real Cute!

When DeWalt has their "Top 17 Popular Hobbyist contest", you have my vote.

But that's just my opinion, and I'm sure you, of all people, will agree that everyone is entitled to his/her opinion.

Thanks mike 
 
3 more votes from me. I'm sure by making his own child a play kitchen, now has been turned into that he has no moral fiber is really a stretch. I can tell you why I like the project. For one it is well documented in the build showing the Dewalt tools being used. It is a project that I feel that I could do myself with my Dewalt tools. It is finished, hard to be a top "finish" carpenter if you can't finish the job. Lastly it has a purpose that fits what he said it was for, simply it is a kitchen for his child. So, previously other contestants were mentioned like Doc Holliday. I liked Doc's project, but to me he has tied what he has done to something someone else's solution to help cancer patients. I can't relate how his built in would help a family who just spent a whole day at a hospital wondering if their loved one was going to be alright. I guess he might of added equity to their house that they could use if they needed money.
 
Robert,
I'm sorry, I can't find in the "well documented" information what he finished the project with? Maybe you could point that out to me.
The term "Finish" in woodworking refers to Stain, lacquer, poly, etc.  I'll use it in a sentence for you: The carperter used an oil stain and lacquer "finish".  The "finish" on the table is linseed oil.

Doc holiday enhanced the living conditions of a Home for out of town families to stay in while loved ones are being treated for cancer.
It has to do with the "level of comfort" the temp condition provide.  Really, that has to be explained to you?

"I can't relate how his built in would help a family..... " (doc Holiday's)
you just argued my point,thank you.  "Built-in" does not refer to something Built in the garage. "Built-in cabinetry" is affixed Real Property and therefore not subject to sales tax.  check your tax codes.

He has not fulfilled the rules of the contest in the category of "built-in Cabinetry".

come on now think,

Mike
 
Thank you Mike, I'll take that into consideration with the other three negative posts you have made. So you mean to tell me a family just leaving the hospital going to this house ,wondering if their family member is going to be alright, will step into this house, and all their troubles will suside after veiwing this work Doc has done. I give to the United Way, but I don't make statement that I feed homeless, or help battered women, I don't attatch my efforts of helping the United Way to myself actually doing the good of that organization. Also, if I was to receive several free tools, I would show how they was used in my project. After veiwing several of the projects, I mostly seen miiter saws being used, (which I already own), however in the documentation of the play kitchen I did get to see the new track saw being used (probably what Dewalt had in mind when they started this contest). That is how I deem this a well documented build.

So I ask you Mike, how does this built-in, which is not subject to sales tax affect the family that is trying to survive cancer. Are you stretching again Mike?
 
Robert,
Stay on track guy.
Did he enter his project description in the "Built in Cabinetry" catagory? Yes or no?
Is the play kitchen "Built-in Cabinetry"?  yes or NO?
Does his project meet the the expectations of what is meant by "Built-in cabinetry" yes or NO?

Mike made this as his opening statement:
  Some contestants are playing up their professional years of experience and their other projects in the news papers and online - some feel they have this all bagged up.

Is that a petty and chilidish statement? YES or no?
Is this statement a reflection of professionalism? yes or NO?
Was this statement made to defend himself from some previous slam? yes or NO?

It's clear that his project doesn't meet the qualification of "built-in Cabinetry" no more than a coffetable does.

His only purpose is "to show a hobbyist can perform just as well."
He's brggin it up, along with thes rest of you guys with some sort of vengence to the "Professional Carpenter"

Assuming you understood my post "Reviewing his project", the only comment you made was about the "finish".

what about the design flaws?  HMMM?

Stay on track

 
I guess we will agree to disagree. I don't see his previous comments a slams, but I believe that you did. I think some of the statements you made were just plain rude. I don't think a father making something for his child is lacking in moral fiber. Do I need to fasten pillows on all corners of my house so I don't seem immoral. What would it take to make it a built in? Fastened to the wall?

I believe all the projects were great. Do I think some one that makes curved stairs as a business is better than this project, NO. Do you think he had an upper hand at already having the job lined up, and just applied it to this contest, YES. Maybe that is what BloomingtonMike meant by a hobbyist can perform just as well.

I would think if you could make comments without belittling this project as much as you have, I would be more open minded on what you have to say. With that I won't argue with you any more on this subject.
 
Mr. Goose:

Welcome to the forum.  I see that you landed on the 28th of last month and as of this point of time I sense a dedication to a certain subject with very opinionated and frankly rude comments.  Are you just on a migration, or you planning on staying?

Just curious,

Peter
 
peter halle said:
Mr. Goose:

Welcome to the forum.  I see that you landed on the 28th of last month and as of this point of time I sense a dedication to a certain subject with very opinionated and frankly rude comments.  Are you just on a migration, or you planning on staying?

Just curious,

Peter

My guess is he's just here to try to make his point, which he's not making very well with all his negativity, and will be gone once this thread runs it's course.
 
Steve,

That is my guess.  This forum is about the knowledge and advice.  It has has some growing pains and my hope is that members will stand up for the integrity of the subsantial essence that is available her and block the non constructive postings.  People cetainly have their right to there opinions, but...

Peter
 
I vote to move greygoose's comments to the dewalt section at whine-bitch-n-moan.com. It really serves no usefull purpose in member projects or on this board.

Ken
 
Hey Guys,

  A day late and a dollar short, I feel like a real Jerk.

I'd like to sincerely appologise to Mike and the rest of ther group for the lack of professionalism I displayed in your group.
I allowed my tacted a grrace to take a backseat to my emotions and frustations. My views most certainly could have been expressed in a much better way.  I retract the personal attacks and insults I salmmed mike, roger and the group with. it was uncalled for and not necessary in anyway.  Rereading my posts now, with a fresh mind and clear eyes I'm embarassed that I went off like that.  No one, especially Mike, deserves the disrespect I showed.  This does not display the values and moral I instill upon my boys.  As a person with a great passion for wordworking I know each and everyone of us take a tremendous level of pride in the projects we create. Mikes Daughter will truely enjoy her "gift of love from Dad" for years, and I dearly wish nothing less than the best for mike, his wife and that precious little girl.

I blame you not for your responses, nor do I expect anyone to accept this appology.
As a man of great conviction to being a role modle to my boys, I must make an attempt to ask forgiveness for my poor display.
I recently lost my father, he taught me all I know of woodworking, He'd be most upset with my words, but proud that "I Face My Mistakes,
Right the wrong, and reflect upon my true innerself". 

Truely ashamed,

Mike

 
I would like to add my comments.

That is fair Mike...I was a little taken back with your approach but glad to see you want to change that...this a a VERY cool place with some great people and we can and do learn better ways from each and every person here.

I do feel however that some of what you felt and expressed here are valid points.  I think the playset is a great project...sure that the child will love it and I know that there is a lot of work that went into it.  I have to agree though that there are other projects in the contest that I feel showcase equal or better craftsmanship. (Incidentally, I also feel that the kitchen set showcases far greater talent than I currently possess).  The stairs for sure has my vote...wow!

The part I have a problem with is recruiting votes.  Unless all of the contestants are reaching out on other woodworking forums to solicit votes then I see that as unfair to other contestants and would not see the winner as representative of the best finish carpenter.  Nickao, with true respect for you and all you bring to the table here (Which I am greatful for) I don't feel this contest is a popularity contest...at least I didn't get that impression.  If I am wrong about that....then so be it but it certainly reduces the importance of the contest to me as it then becomes more of a recruiting contest than it does a showcase of crafstmanship based upon people voting for the quality of project, complexity, blogging skills etc...

Just my two cents

 
greygoose said:
Hey Guys,

  A day late and a dollar short, I feel like a real Jerk.

I'd like to sincerely appologise to Mike and the rest of ther group for the lack of professionalism I displayed in your group.
I allowed my tacted a grrace to take a backseat to my emotions and frustations. My views most certainly could have been expressed in a much better way.  I retract the personal attacks and insults I salmmed mike, roger and the group with. it was uncalled for and not necessary in anyway.  Rereading my posts now, with a fresh mind and clear eyes I'm embarassed that I went off like that.  No one, especially Mike, deserves the disrespect I showed.  This does not display the values and moral I instill upon my boys.  As a person with a great passion for wordworking I know each and everyone of us take a tremendous level of pride in the projects we create. Mikes Daughter will truely enjoy her "gift of love from Dad" for years, and I dearly wish nothing less than the best for mike, his wife and that precious little girl.

I blame you not for your responses, nor do I expect anyone to accept this appology.
As a man of great conviction to being a role modle to my boys, I must make an attempt to ask forgiveness for my poor display.
I recently lost my father, he taught me all I know of woodworking, He'd be most upset with my words, but proud that "I Face My Mistakes,
Right the wrong, and reflect upon my true innerself". 

Truely ashamed,

Mike

I definitely accept your apology as well, and probably should offer one as well for some of my comments. I'm sorry too.
I did not expect that to be your reaction though. I was prepared to just walk away from the argument, and figure your next post you was going to let me have it. I to lost my Dad to an accident earlier this year.
here is a link to the postings for it. http://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=2478.0
It really helped me out by talking about it online, It would give me a distraction to go and hide on the computer when I wasn't ready to face somebody that had come by to see how I was doing. It is still tough too.
 
Barry Londrigan said:
I would like to add my comments.

That is fair Mike...I was a little taken back with your approach but glad to see you want to change that...this a a VERY cool place with some great people and we can and do learn better ways from each and every person here.

I do feel however that some of what you felt and expressed here are valid points.  I think the playset is a great project...sure that the child will love it and I know that there is a lot of work that went into it.  I have to agree though that there are other projects in the contest that I feel showcase equal or better craftsmanship. (Incidentally, I also feel that the kitchen set showcases far greater talent than I currently possess).  The stairs for sure has my vote...wow!

The part I have a problem with is recruiting votes.  Unless all of the contestants are reaching out on other woodworking forums to solicit votes then I see that as unfair to other contestants and would not see the winner as representative of the best finish carpenter.  Nickao, with true respect for you and all you bring to the table here (Which I am greatful for) I don't feel this contest is a popularity contest...at least I didn't get that impression.  If I am wrong about that....then so be it but it certainly reduces the importance of the contest to me as it then becomes more of a recruiting contest than it does a showcase of crafstmanship based upon people voting for the quality of project, complexity, blogging skills etc...

Just my two cents

Barry it is the most popular if you can vote more than once , three times a day the entire format is based on popularity that is the scheme of the contest. There are different types of contests and this is a popularity type format. It is a fact, not what I think. That was my only point.

If you could only vote once for ever and ever then it would not be based so much on popularity. Think about it the guy that knows the most people that are on the net has the best chance, not the best woodworker. Its the way this contest is, its not  wrong or right just the way it is set up. It is totally fair to ask for votes and get on your own forum and ask for support because that is how the contest is set up. You may not like it but those are the facts or  this multiple day multiple voting would not be allowed.

If you surf the other forums guys you will see people are all drumming up votes for their friends, its not wrong just the type of contest it is. Open it up to multiple voting and that is exactly what they want. Massive hits on their web site. In this case DeWalt's web site. Its a great plan by DeWalt to create buzz and more hits.

But do not make this out to be based on quality of the project because it is not  and if you do the guy with the most friends online will most definitely win. Which again is exactly how this type of contest format plays out over and over. The best project very well can come in last and that's okay because that is how DeWalt set up the contest. I see nothing wrong with it because from the start they are saying vote as many times as you want for your choice.
 
Well I wasn't sure if I should even come back and look,  Thank you for understanding.
I promise to keep my views and opinions within what I'm trying to learn as acceptable expressions of thought in here. (Still a little confused how much I can say reading other post)

I'll take another approach and try very hard not to poke the sore spots.

First and foremost, The men that didn't finish should send their free tools back to DeWalt and be withdrawn from the contest as the rules state.

I've looked at every project and read their project summary, Some of the carpenters changed their project from what gained them entry into the contest. I look at that like a "bait and switch",  Should that be a consideration when evaluating their project? I'd say yes. Out of the contest? not sure.
It's one thing to change your mind on something your just building for yourself, A professional carpenter is held to building what the client wants, what they agreed on and what is expected.

Still other project(s) don't fit any category, i.e. the trusses, beautiful yes, enhanced the room absolutely.

  Announced as...."and the winner of the DeWalt Top 17 carpenters, in the category of _________ goes to the trusses"  (fill in the blank with "Built in cabinets", Fireplace Mantels, or "Custom Stairs" )  (I won't sight another example)

There's a guy with blank pictures on his page, technical error? Did he finish? Who knows but he got votes. What that about?

So that narrows the field to a few, The stairs are beautifully crafted, excellently documented and awsome to look at. He gets a vote or two from me.

There is a fireplace mantel that spans 2 categories (mantels and Built-in) Very nice job, I think the photography and lighting hurts it's display. But he gets a couple of votes from me.

The project with the fireplace mantle / T.V. / media storage is very nice. And although it was'nt thought of initially, actually and after thought, he installed a hardwood floor.  Show skills other than just one. he gets a vote or 2.

That leaves me with, what I feel deserves, just a little more credit than the others. The home office den remodel (sawdust shop).

Here is why:
Although he should only be judges on the "Built-in Cabinets" portion, he did the entire room.
He displays Multiple talents a "top carpenter" should possess, not all of them but more than most. 

I see Office project like this:

In order to build and install the cabinets he had to first strip the room, demo and re-frame the entry way and hang some drywall.
Then install a hardwood floor, which looks to be a Bellawood floor. Very nice product and another skill in his tool bag.

He showed pictures of what appears to be rough sawn lumber, and a lot of it. I don't know how much he used, but I know that takes time to true it up.
There are no pictures of building the cabinets, but i doubt that they were bought by the look of them, that, and he shows the bookcases being built.

The things that really impressed me are the things the untrained eye doesn't pickup on, as it should be. Did anyone notice the lighting? I had to go back to figure out how he put lights in the lower shelf without seeing any wiring. The upper lights aren't blaring in your eyes, that and they light the face of the bookcases. How?  They are not centered in the upper ceiling of the case, they are brought forward in what appears to be an extra deep box, and notice the shelfs are recess slightly inside to allow the light to cast forward. Looks like full size shelfs with the basketball on it.  That took a lot of thought for an effect overlooked by most!  Which walks me into the electrical outlets that are provided inside the cabinets, inside the bookcases and both above and below the desk, on both sides. I don't get why telephone jack is under the desk, but I'm sure that wasn't an after thought, maybe just not needed.  To add to the detail he made all the outlet and switch plate covers.  More than I would do. But it looks good or rather blends in.

The keystones on the top of the arches were hand carved (Impressive) and recessed into the faceframe, not just nailed to the front. The carving alone takes tremendous skill....and time. Although he didn't do the granite tops, they really add to the overall finish.
Then comes the trim, I didn't like the chair railing trim and base all painted the same color, but it's still a great feature, and what do i know about painting.

What I can only guess is an after thought, the T.V. in the wall (it's not mentioned in the summary). But What fries my noddle the most, looking at the side shot of the T.V., How deep is it in the wall?  Every T.V.  I've seen hanging on the wall, including my own protrudes from the wall 6"-7". Is the case sticking out the other side of the house or into another Room? is this a Plumbing wall"? (they are only 5-1/2" deep).  Where are the wires to the T.V. the stereo, speakers, cable, and dvd player?

And if it weren't for the pictures of the open cabinet door showing a sliding printer tray and hiding the computer equipment. I'd have thought nothing more than simple storage.

Overall I'd say I'm impressed with the fact that it is more than just cabinets, but rather an interactive, functional piece of work. You use it you don't just stare at it.

I vote more for his than the others. Not to push in your face, but here the link if your wanting to reference the picture with my views.
http://www.dewalt.com/us/top17/finalists.aspx?projectID=80

I hope this did not offend anyone, this time.

If i did, I'm sorry......AGAIN, i'm trying LOL

Mike 
 
GreyGoose, No problems here - I try not to take online negativity personally, and after all its online. I know where your heart is and I admire your passions. I am the same way.

Good luck to everyone (contestants and their fans) - a few more days to go!!
 
Mike,

Hey Guy, I want to personally say i 'm sorry. I hope you read my retraction. (posted up above).

Here lately my emotions are on a rollercoaster waiting for the ride to end.
Please accept my appologise with my most sincere regret.
It did feel good to let 'em rip, but I should have aimed it at the treehuggers!

What you built for your daughter was wonderful, you are most certainly a loving father to take the time to build her such a fun piece of work.
and oh what a cutie she is.

I went overboard on what i said about your project, my focus was fueld more on all the hoopla. I've voted a handful of times, and as a gesture of good faith I will tomorrow give you a vote. not like you need it or anything?

i also bashed you on another site, Sorry, and I wrote an appology to the operator. but i am apparently not allowed back in the group.
I did ask that he forward it to the group and you, and I'm not at all expecting to be able to return. stupid is as stupid does.

thanks for understanding,
I promise to refrain from unjust personal attacks again.

well i will atleast try very hard.

mike
 
Mr. Goose.

I want to to offer to you my welcome to the Festool Owners Group.  I'm glad that you aren't of the migrating type and once you settle here you will find it a comfort to you in these troubling times.  Your apologies were a classy thing to do.

Contests on the internet have a lot of growing to do.  I personally thimk that the Dewalt one needs much improving and rethought in its rules and criteria.  It is trying to be too many things in my humble opinion.  Way too broad.  That is not a disparaging remark to Mike or any of the the other contestants.  If they have it again, they will work out more of the kinks.  Rome wasn't built in a day - neither was this forum - neither was that contest.

Mr. Goose -  I.m sorry for you recent loss and I hope that you will stick around.

Peter
 
Hello Greygoose,

I am terribly sorry for your loss. We all can act a bit irrational at times of great stress, there are no negative feelings here.

It takes a big man to admit when he's wrong, it's admirable for you to "Cowboy Up".

With that being said, Welcome to the Forum!!!

Ken
 
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