Differences in Titebond other than open time and water resistance?

[smorgasbord]

I was watching a video by an Australian the other day, and for veneering he said he was using TB I because TB III dried more flexible and that wasn't good for what he was doing.

We all know about the Open Time differences, and about the Water Resistance differences, and maybe even some strength differences (that don't matter), but this is the first time I've heard anyone talk about the hardened glue having different flex amounts - and that it would matter.

Anyone else know about this?

 

[Packard]

Maybe he was referring to “creep”.  My understanding is that all PVA glues will creep—that is slide side to side if not mechanically held in place, even after clamping. 

My method is to drive at least 3 tiny brads into the surfaces to be glued and then clip off all but about 1/8”.  The clipped ends are quite sharp. 

After getting things aligned, I clamp.  The wire brads dig into the mating piece and  prevent the boards from sliding side to side (even after dried).

I use Titebond 3 for almost all my glue ups.  I use “Cornerweld” glue where I want fast gripping.  Cornerweld is made by Framica, a picture frame wholesale supply house.  Picture frame glue-ups are extremely simple and the short open times are useful.  The useable open time is probably 2 or 3 minutes.  If you press two pieces of wood together that have glue on them and rub them back and forth they will “tack” in under a minute.  You could gently handle an assembled picture frame in less than 10 minutes.

 

[smorgasbord]

Yeah, he was talking creep / flexible interchangeably. Why TB I creeps less than TBIII and why that matters for veneering are my questions, I guess.

 

[Packard]

I’ve read that you can bend standard 1/4” thick plywood into an arc with a 12” radius— or about 3 feet wide. 

So if I make a clamping form to bend 3 pieces of 1/4” plywood to that arc and glue it with PVA glue, after it is released from the clamping fixture, creep would allow the arc to grow larger as the memory in the plywood tries to return to its original flat shape. 

A glue with no creep would retain the 12” arc.

I don’t do wood bending, but that is my understanding of the issue. 

I think that hide glue is preferred.  I buy hide glue pre-mixed.  I understand it has a limited shelf life.  My inventory might be useless at this point.  I use it for adding woven cane panels to cabinet doors and stools.  It is the preferred glue for that application, but I think that is because it is reversible in case the cane has to be replaced.

 

[smorgasbord]

He uses urea formaldehyde. Although he's talking about environmental changes, not immediate snap-back.

Here's the video cued up if anyone's interested. Nice build in a very nice shop, btw.
=SDueNw9x3dObe-F4&t=727

 

[peter halle]

When you come to veneering (I loved that video when I watched it earlier in the week) usually the only Titebond that is commonly spoken of is their Cold Press glue which has a slightly longer open time, is slightly thicker (to reduce bleed-thru) and also a little (marginally) bit harder than the other Titebonds.  Titebond Original and 2 are sometimes spoken of when performing iron on veneering.  Professionals seem to adjust their workflow to the different glues they enjoy using and just make it work for themselves.

I've used the cold press for vacuum pressing and the Titebond 1 for iron-on.  I have yet to use the harder glues like those formaldehyde based.

Peter

 

[Packard]

He uses urea formaldehyde. Although he's talking about environmental changes, not immediate snap-back.

Here's the video cued up if anyone's interested. Nice build in a very nice shop, btw.
=SDueNw9x3dObe-F4&t=727

The video is fascinating.  I did notice he used very tight fitting dominoes and other videos I’ve seen used much looser dominoes.

And what was the clear coat he rolled on?  He only needed that one coat to polish.

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

He uses urea formaldehyde. Although he's talking about environmental changes, not immediate snap-back.

Here's the video cued up if anyone's interested. Nice build in a very nice shop, btw.
=SDueNw9x3dObe-F4&t=727

The video is fascinating.  I did notice he used very tight fitting dominoes and other videos I’ve seen used much looser dominoes.

And what was the clear coat he rolled on?  He only needed that one coat to polish.

Hi Packard,

He's using Osmo Polyx, which is a plant-oil based "hard wax oil". Many of these oils only require a single application, and buff to a handsome luster.

Regarding the tight fitting Dominos, I suspect they swelled due to humidity, when I notice that mine have swelled I'll pop them in either the microwave or oven to cook the moisture out of them.

 

[peter halle]

As a slight sidebar, I found it interesting that two furniture makers put out videos that were similar.  Here is the other one:



Peter

 

[onocoffee]

Not to hijack, but since this is a Titebond thread.

I hear people talking about waterproff TB3 is and not to use the other two for wet applications. What does this mean really? Is this to say if I use TB1 for gluing dominoed outdoor chairs that when it rains on it this summer, the glue will come apart?

 

[usernumber1]

I think unfortunately the manufacturers in general and the public do not advertise their testing methodology in detail and too much is left to opinion
https://www.capitaltesting.org/iso-...d-to-capital-testing-s-scope-of-accreditation
https://www.titebond.com/resources/use/glues/faqs#:~:text=Type%20I%20testing%20involves%20cutting,immediately%20cooled%20using%20running%20water.

Frequently Asked Questions
What is the difference between the ANSI/HPVA Type I and Type II water-resistance specification?
Both of these tests are conducted using 6” by 6” birch laminates glued together to make three-ply plywood. The test for Type I is clearly more stringent than Type II, and involves boiling the glue bonds and testing the specimens while they are wet.

Type I testing involves cutting the 6" by 6" assemblies into 1" by 3" specimens, boiling them for 4 hours, then baking the specimens in a 145°F oven for 20 hours. They are boiled for an additional 4 hours, then immediately cooled using running water. The specimens are sheared while wet, and the bonds must pass certain strength and wood failure requirements to pass the Type I specification.

Type II testing involves cutting the 6" by 6" assemblies into 2" by 5" specimens, soaking them for 4 hours, then baking the specimens in a 120°F oven for 19 hours. This is repeated for a total of three cycles, and the bonds must not delaminate to pass the Type II specification.

dry shear test 4.3 page 31https://www.decorativehardwoods.org/sites/default/files/2022-03/ANSI-HPVA-HP-1 2020_FINAL1.pdf

 

[Packard]

To understand “waterproof “ you have to understand the testing methods.

I know that epoxy is not waterproof even though you can submerge the joint in water for days on end.  It is not waterproof because it cannot withstand the high temperature requirement.

So for everything I use glue for, it is waterproof.

So you have to know what standard was established for the test, and find out how the test is performed before you can answer your questions.

Shoot an email to the manufacturer asking what test they use for waterproof, then contact the testing lab for specs on how the tests are conducted.  Otherwise, “waterproof “ is just another word.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Almost nobody says "proof" about anything anymore. It's resistant or something equivalent, so they don't get sued.