Dining Room

[DynaGlide]

That laser trick for the out let’s is awesome ,
I’m going to use that one for sure.

I also am lusting over the Lamell Zeta ,I’m seeing a lot of creative uses for it.
Charlie

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Honestly the Zeta was a splurge that I've regretted many times since buying it because I haven't done any cabinets since 2021. But as we get into more of a remodel phase for this house I think I'll keep finding uses for it. Like when I build my upper cabinets, not only for dry fit but also I'm thinking of an L bracket not unlike the toe kick nailer for attaching crown. I could just screw something to the top but I like the idea of one that goes in after the cabinet is set.

I even called and spoke to Lamello USA before starting on this project to see how I could incorporate the Zeta into my workflow. The consensus was since I'm building cabinets in my garage and moving them a short distance, it didn't give any advantage over just  stapling and screwing the boxes together. It is more useful for if you have to get cabinets up narrow stairs, large cabinets into small spaces, that sort of thing the installers can take them up in pieces then put them back together on site.

Matt

 

[squall_line]

Honestly the Zeta was a splurge that I've regretted many times since buying it because I haven't done any cabinets since 2021.

I'm with you on the buyer's remorse when it sits for a while.  That said, I used my Zeta recently with a couple of Clamex connectors to re-attach a piece of face frame in my kitchen that needs to be removed if anyone wants to pull the dishwasher without destroying the gasket and insulation blanket.  The general that did the water damage repairs behind the dishwasher made some sort of "too rich for my blood" comment when I explained it to him.  My brother just rolled his eyes.  I'll get one of them to come around one of these days...

I can only think of one or two other ways to make that same face frame attachment without any visible fasteners and still keep it easily removable for maintenance/repair needs, and the Clamex still seems the best/most elegant.

 

[Sparktrician]

I'm sorry Richard. If it makes it easier I do not use it except when building cabinets. I tried selling it last year. Couldn't find the right buyer. When I assemble the uppers I'm going to use it for dry fit to take measurements for doors and drawers. Material is combi core that I need to paint and I don't want that process to hold me back from ordering the doors and drawers. So I'll clamex  it for measurements then break it down to spray.

 

Very clever thinking, Matt!  [thumbs up]

 

[DynaGlide]

Honestly the Zeta was a splurge that I've regretted many times since buying it because I haven't done any cabinets since 2021.

I'm with you on the buyer's remorse when it sits for a while.  That said, I used my Zeta recently with a couple of Clamex connectors to re-attach a piece of face frame in my kitchen that needs to be removed if anyone wants to pull the dishwasher without destroying the gasket and insulation blanket.  The general that did the water damage repairs behind the dishwasher made some sort of "too rich for my blood" comment when I explained it to him.  My brother just rolled his eyes.  I'll get one of them to come around one of these days...

I can only think of one or two other ways to make that same face frame attachment without any visible fasteners and still keep it easily removable for maintenance/repair needs, and the Clamex still seems the best/most elegant.

It's the right tool for certain jobs. A very expensive tool. But the right tool. I see lots of uses for it with cabinetry installs. Not really for cabinet construction unless you just want to show off that you have it.

My office face frames are attached with tensos for similar reasons. I didn't want fasteners after painting. I can remove them if I really want to (no need).

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I use the Zeta a lot, but my situation is far different than the average home shop guy.
I use both Clamex and Tenso, depending on the situation, almost always with some Dominos.

 

[smorgasbord]

Looks like you are using the laser to locate the outlet cutout?  That's a neat trick if I'm following your images correctly!

You got it neil.  [wink]

Just wondering what the risk of parallax is for that. I suppose if you set the laser up at least close to in front of the outlet, it'd be fine, but if you were offset several feet, then a few inches away could be a few inches to one side. Or, am I misunderstanding how these lasers work?

 

[DynaGlide]

Looks like you are using the laser to locate the outlet cutout?  That's a neat trick if I'm following your images correctly!

You got it neil.  [wink]

Just wondering what the risk of parallax is for that. I suppose if you set the laser up at least close to in front of the outlet, it'd be fine, but if you were offset several feet, then a few inches away could be a few inches to one side. Or, am I misunderstanding how these lasers work?

Don't over think it. My laser was off to the side.

 

[DynaGlide]

I've been making steady progress and will do a separate post later. The focus now for me is this ~32"x 51" cabinet w/ a 1/4" MDF back set in the thickness of my 3/4" nailers. I'm finding the two sides are bowed but in the same direction. I think I saw it during cutting and assembly but waited to see how it would shake out.

I've edited to exaggerate.

In the picture the very bottom shelf is the bottom of the cabinet above a drawer and is fixed right now with Clamex. The three other shelves were meant to be adjustable and I hadn't cut them yet but inserted to clamp and see if it would fix the issue. The problem I'm facing is the bow is on both sides so it doesn't seem like adding shelves in a fixed fashion would pull it out.

Left bottom inside corner:

Right bottom outside corner:

I checked the other cabinet I made and it's nice and straight no bows. Putting nailers in the back doesn't seem to do anything with clamps because they just follow the double bow.

My thoughts. .

1) I swap one bow side with one straight from the other cabinet. Don't love this idea.

2) Buy more material and cut a square 3/4" back to use in place of nailers. Would this work? Not crazy about it but if it works. .

3) Buy another sheet at ~$90 hope it's flat and re-make the 2 sides or at least orient them opposite if there's a bow so I can pull it out.

The shelves were meant to be adjustable and I was okay pivoting to make them fixed but that doesn't seem to address the bow. This cabinet doesn't attach to others it'll be free standing and secured to the wall. Can I use the 1/4" back to pull it straight with staples? The back is cut shy of each groove by 2mm so a total 4mm side to side/top to bottom.

Thanks,
Matt

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Looks like you are using the laser to locate the outlet cutout?  That's a neat trick if I'm following your images correctly!

You got it neil.  [wink]

Just wondering what the risk of parallax is for that. I suppose if you set the laser up at least close to in front of the outlet, it'd be fine, but if you were offset several feet, then a few inches away could be a few inches to one side. Or, am I misunderstanding how these lasers work?

Parallax would come into it, slightly. It would depend on 2 things. How much of an angle plays a part, and the thickness of the back itself. The further forward the back of the cabinet is from the actual wall, the more it is affected.  If it was dead-straight in front, it wouldn't change at all.
Angles change lengths.
In this case, the back is probably only an inch from the wall, can't be off that bad, plus there is some clearance here too.

 

[hdv]

If I interpret the photo's correctly, the cabinet is made from stable material. That means a tight-fitting back panel won't cause any problems. I've have fixed a similar problem in the past by creating a rabbet in which a back panel (that is square!) would fit with almost no play. I would recommend using back panel screws instead of nails or staples though.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

[member=65062]DynaGlide[/member] how bad is the bow? Your drawn-in exaggeration makes it hard to see.
Is this unit free-standing? or attached to something else?
If it is a single unit, the full back panel that [member=66485]hdv[/member] suggested will fix it. If it gets attached to something else, that other unit may be able to pull it straight.

 

[Lincoln]

I've been making steady progress and will do a separate post later. The focus now for me is this ~32"x 51" cabinet w/ a 1/4" MDF back set in the thickness of my 3/4" nailers. I'm finding the two sides are bowed but in the same direction. I think I saw it during cutting and assembly but waited to see how it would shake out.

I've edited to exaggerate.

In the picture the very bottom shelf is the bottom of the cabinet above a drawer and is fixed right now with Clamex. The three other shelves were meant to be adjustable and I hadn't cut them yet but inserted to clamp and see if it would fix the issue. The problem I'm facing is the bow is on both sides so it doesn't seem like adding shelves in a fixed fashion would pull it out.

Left bottom inside corner:

Right bottom outside corner:

I checked the other cabinet I made and it's nice and straight no bows. Putting nailers in the back doesn't seem to do anything with clamps because they just follow the double bow.

My thoughts. .

1) I swap one bow side with one straight from the other cabinet. Don't love this idea.

2) Buy more material and cut a square 3/4" back to use in place of nailers. Would this work? Not crazy about it but if it works. .

3) Buy another sheet at ~$90 hope it's flat and re-make the 2 sides or at least orient them opposite if there's a bow so I can pull it out.

The shelves were meant to be adjustable and I was okay pivoting to make them fixed but that doesn't seem to address the bow. This cabinet doesn't attach to others it'll be free standing and secured to the wall. Can I use the 1/4" back to pull it straight with staples? The back is cut shy of each groove by 2mm so a total 4mm side to side/top to bottom.

Thanks,
Matt

I worked for someone - still the best joiner I've ever come across - after I finished my apprenticeship and he insisted that cabinet boxes go together on the bench square and out-of-wind. To the point where winding sticks were to be used before the back went on. I used to think it was overkill, and a lot of the time it is, but it does avoid problems like this. A twist in a completed box can be very hard to fix, if not impossible sometimes.

 

[nclemmons]

Where does this cabinet go?  Inside one of the base cabinets in your photo?

You could get some 1” x 1” aluminum angle x 4’ at Lowes or HD and route it into the back corner on both sides.  Maybe 1/8” inset so it does not project beyond the sides of the cabinet.  Epoxy or screw into the sides to pull them straight at the back.  Remove the back at first and simply clamp them in place and see if that helps to pull the cabinet sides straight.  You could do the same on the front but you’d need to route a groove into the side to the cabinet they sit next to and have the angle slide into that groove.  If needed, rip it down on your saw (turn off the Sawstop trigger!)

 

[DynaGlide]

Thanks for the suggestions guys. It is free standing and goes on top of the counter secured to the wall. I tried a few things and what I think I'll do is frame out the back nailers with two straight vertical pieces and secure the sides to that. That will draw the sides toward the rear straight. Then when I go to attach the filler on one side I'll use an L bracket of flat straight wood. The other side will get an applied end panel. The bow isn't terrible 1/8-3/16 enough to make me want to adjust it.

 

[smorgasbord]

I guess I'm confused why the back didn't force the cabinet square, at least at the back.

 

[DynaGlide]

I guess I'm confused why the back didn't force the cabinet square, at least at the back.

Grooves are typically cut some depth and the backs are typically cut that depth minus a few mm or so in frameless construction. So the back will keep stuff kinda square but not as good as say a rabbeted exact size back.



On mine I think the back ended up ~4mm narrower than the internal width of the cabinet + grooves.

Plus if the bow is away from the back panel in the middle of a long side the back panel won't draw that in.

This whole exercise will have me re-thinking how I do my backs especially for single unit cabinets. I think a rabbeted in 1/2" square back would be my preference.

 

[DynaGlide]

Where does this cabinet go?  Inside one of the base cabinets in your photo?

You could get some 1” x 1” aluminum angle x 4’ at Lowes or HD and route it into the back corner on both sides.  Maybe 1/8” inset so it does not project beyond the sides of the cabinet.  Epoxy or screw into the sides to pull them straight at the back.  Remove the back at first and simply clamp them in place and see if that helps to pull the cabinet sides straight.  You could do the same on the front but you’d need to route a groove into the side to the cabinet they sit next to and have the angle slide into that groove.  If needed, rip it down on your saw (turn off the Sawstop trigger!)

Hey neil - didn't want to dismiss this idea. I'm doing something similar in concept. The cabinets need applied end panels on one side and a filler on the opposing side. In the past when I did a filler strip I'd make an L shape bracket out of plywood the height of the cabinet and screw that to the side of the cabinet in hidden areas i.e. behind hinge plates. As a test I took a length of tracktube and clamped it to the side and it pulls it straight pretty easily. So for this one I think instead of plywood I'll make up the L bracket out of hardwood and do the same. The opposing side I'll rely on the hardwood of the frame and panel applied end to help keep it in line.

At the rear of the box I can run plywood strips ~4" wide vertically between the nailers and secure the sides to that.

Out of 4 sheets of this combi-core I ordered 2 ended up being pretty wonky. I flat out returned one it was so bad. I think my distributor is either storing them poorly or the rampant humidity in Northern Virginia is wreaking havoc on the material. I selected the flattest pieces after processing for shelving and tops/bottoms.

Matt

 

[DynaGlide]

Re-arranged and brought the Kapex up to go into trim mode:

Working in the existing space was pretty terrible. Hardwood in the way, baseboard too thick to fit in spaces, door trim in the way and had to scribe it. But it's done and I can move on to shoe molding next trip to home depot. I coped all the joints because I think it's the right way to do it and it really wasn't that bad.

Matt

 

[luvmytoolz]

Coming along very nicely!

 

[nclemmons]

That trim makes it look like it was meant to be part of the room!  Nice job!

Coping trim is easy with a Knew Concepts saw.  Love their tools!  You are right for my view - coping is the best way to get tight joints.  I like to ‘spring’ the coped piece into place to get it tight with no gaps.  Far easier than dealing with miters!

Great progress.  Appreciate the blow-by-blow.  Surprised your wife is letting you use her nice rug as a drop cloth!