Do I really need a Kapex?!

[webdesigner]

Careful, I'm easy to convince, especially when it comes to high quality tools.

OK, I have a good TS, TS 55 EQ, MFT 1080, etc. Do very, very little molding work.
Other than possibly building boxes, do I really need a Kapex?!
I hear a YES coming, but please give me more excuses...I mean reasons!
I know the Kapex is a work of art, like all Festools...

Thanks in advance!

 

[Hotwheels]

Yes, you need one ... it has a variety of uses for a range of cross-cutting applications. If you do anything outside your shop (decks, outbuildings, pergolas) the ability to move it around more easily is a plus. I have a table saw, a TS55, and a soon to be less used Makita LS1013 miter saw. I use the miter saw a lot for remodeling and outside construction projects. I am sure you could do without one, but life with one just requires fewer workarounds.
JR

 

[Per Swenson]

If you don't own one of the formerly top 3 saws yet,

why settle for second best on your first go 'round?

Per

 

[jo041326]

I think the question is incomplete. What do you do? Small furniture only or also pergolas, sheds, decks? Than you could ask again.
Josef

 

[webdesigner]

Good question...

I don't build sheds, small houses or decks.
I'm a passionate woodworker that's more into building furniture, small tables and cabinets.
Some small boxes and remodeling work, I do have replace our fence.

OK, maybe I should ask, "Why do YOU want one, what will YOU make?"
Better tool for cutting smaller pieces, but is it any safer or more accurate than a TS?

 

[jo041326]

Hi webdesigner,
I'm also a hobby woodworker. Make furniture (kitchens, tables, carcaises etc.), garden furniture and other stuff (pergolas, sheds, arbors...) and sometimes casing of concrete stairs.
I don't think I'd need a Kapex for furniture making. My TS55 is enough for 95% of all tasks and for cutting of moldings (or battens? oh my poor english) I'd buy some chop saw.
But for timber floor, railings, pergolas, sheds or rugged garden furniture the SCMS is so much quicker, precise and comfortable I can't imagine to live without one. The question is if you need Kapex or if Makita 1013 or 1214 wouldn't be good enough for less money.
Josef

 

[Per Swenson]

. The question is if you need Kapex or if Makita 1013 or 1214 wouldn't be good enough for less money.
Josef

This is where I disagree.
Especially if you are a hobbiest, where you, rather then your work is paying for the tool,
buy the absolute best you can afford. In this case it becomes a matter of opinion on the definition of best.
But,  why make a purchase that theoretically in non professional use will last a life time, that you could quite possibly regret. the "I coulda been a contenda" scenario.

The," do I actually need a miter saw?" question.
I am straight up biased. I was raised on a radial arm saw, and had one of the first miter saws in the early 80s.
I currently own 3 of the top 4.
It is my method of work and the demands of my occupation, coupled with complete familiarity, that make
a miter saw a must.

Together the saw and I are Fast. This makes it the right tool for most jobs.
For you, woodworking as leisure time, I honestly can't relate, we think differently,
but I bet your time is just as valuable as mine. With a small amount of practice,
maybe a Gary Katz video or two, next thing you know, you are turning out
more pieces of work in less time, satisfying that creativity gene.

I hope this better explains my cryptic post above.

Good luck on your decision.

Per

 

[Frank Pellow]

I decided a long time ago that I did not need a powered miter saw and it is unlikely that the Kapex will change that decision.

I am retired and do not work for money.  In a normal week, I probably  average about 50 hours of woodworking and carpentry.  About 40 percent of my work is off-site.

I have a high quality non-powered miter saw (see: http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=32926&cat=1,42884,43836) that is made in Sweden.  And I use it for most off-site work which requires high precision.  For simple angle cuts off site, I use my my Festool MFT and TS-75 combo.

When in the shop I use the tools metioned above as well as my table saw equipped with various after-market miter gauges and sleds.

 

[semenza]

Hi,

          The answer to "do I need a miter saw?"  on-  what other tools you have that can do the same job.

                                                                              - what type of work you do.

                                                                              - site work , shop work, both.

                                                                              - hobbyist or pro (need for speed, as opposed to want for speed)

          Myself I am a pro, but was a hobbyist before that. I have had a miter saw during both times. I do mostly shop work. It is a wide range of stuff. Small, large , furniture, builts-ins, just about anything. I have a RAS, I have a TS55,  I do not have an MFT (yet), or a table saw.  I use the miter saw on 90% of the jobs I do. I can't imagine not having one even if I did have a table saw and or MFT. It is just so darn handy  for making the cuts that it makes.  It is always right there ready to cut regardless of what else another tool might be set up to do.  I would want one weather pro or hobbyist.
        As far as the KAPEX compared to another brand goes - one thing to consider is that down the road, should you ever want to sell it for whatever reason you would probably get 75 -90% of what you paid back.

Seth

 

[Jerry Work]

Hi Webdesigner,

Good advice given by all here. 

I would like to offer a bit different take on your question, one that I think applies to all of the tools we use.  I hear all the time statements something like, "Well, you build fine furniture for a living so can write off your tools and afford the best, but I am just a hobbyist and can't justify anything but the blue light special......".  I think that kind of a statement incorrectly frames the underlying question. 

If one is a "professional" then the customer is obvious.  We have to constantly be improving our efficiency and quality in order to constantly improve the value proposition we offer to our paying customer or someone else will and we will no longer be competitive.  I think the same thing is true if one is a "hobbyist" as well.  In this case the customer is yourself and your family.  You have to constantly be improving your efficiency and quality in order to gain more satisfaction from what you create (the yourself as the customer) and to gain more quality time with your family. 

They don't want to see you come out of your shop frustrated by your inability to do something well or by how long it took you to accomplish the outcome you desire.  They want to see you come out of your shop with something they will long remember and with a look of pride and satisfaction on your face!  The value proposition you bring to yourself and your family as the customer is just as important, if not more important, than the value proposition a so called "professional" brings to their paying customer.  If you bring a less than stellar and constantly improving value proposition to either you will not do this for very long.  You will simply go out of business or stop enjoying woodworking.

That said, I think the proper framing of the question is what can I afford over the long term given the other financial demands that are part of everyday living.  Buying one "best" tool that you will enjoy using for a lifetime instead of two or three tools that you will later discard either because they wear out or you simply get frustrated with using them I find a far better decision.  But, if you buy that one "best" tool and don't use it to achieve a desired outcome, it was a lousy investment no matter how good it might have been. 

As I have posted before, I follow a rather rigid discipline to keep my studio from becoming cluttered with stuff I might have loved when I purchased it but didn't wind up using.  Every three to six months I force myself to evaluate my tool use by noting which tools found their way into my hands during that period.  Unless it is something very specialized that I had no need to use during that time, if it did not find its way into my hands I sell it or upgrade to something better that I will use.  Yes, there have been a few times when I later found that was not the right thing to do, but in the vast majority of the cases it was.  I don't recommend this for everyone, but it sure works for me and has allowed me to constantly be able to build a better quality piece of furniture, faster, so I can sell it at a lower price to my customer while still enjoying a good return on my time and investment.  That is the win-win I am after and it works for me.

Bottom line, it is not a question of whether or not you can/should justify a Kapex, it is a matter of will ownership of a Kapex improve the value proposition you bring to yourself and your family.  Now I will get off my soap box and get back to trying to improve the value proposition I offer to my customers.  Hope these ramblings might be of some use. 

Jerry

 

[Qwas]

The question is if you need Kapex or if Makita 1013 or 1214 wouldn't be good enough for less money.
Josef

I have to agree with Josef. I currently have a small miter saw and would like to upgrade to a SCMS. But I can buy 3 top of the line Makitas for the price of the Kapex. I haven't seen anything so outstanding about the Kapex to justify the extra money. Well, maybe the angle finder but that purchased separately.

 

[webdesigner]

Thanks for all the great advice!
Yes Jerry, my time with my family is very valuable, life is way too short!
And good idea...I've sold quite a few of my old tools on craigslist or donated them.

I have a very small shop, so the Kapex is perfect. No rear sliding arm to bump against the wall is a nice feature!
How to organize half a garage into a nice woodworking shop will be my next posting. I'm sure a lot of people are in my shoes.

In the near future, I hope to make more boxes, would this tool be productive in making 45 degree cuts? Or just use my TS with 45 degree sled?

Cheers!

 

[merklebob]

i think once you have a cut off type saw you be using it a lot.  the question really is do you need a expencive one like the kapex.  you'll need a dual laser one and the  handy corner angle guide.  i bought a delta dual laser 12" before i knew the kapex was coming out.  from what i have seen the delta will do and i founf the angle guide for $45.  i did pay $500 for the delta.  you can get by with a 300  saw but the dual lasers are a must.  i have a 10 cutoff saw w/o the laser and have been griping ever since.

get one but not necessarily the kapex.

 

[Matthew Schenker]

... I have a high quality non-powered miter saw (see: http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=32926&cat=1,42884,43836) that is made in Sweden.  And I use it for most off-site work which requires high precision.

Frank, that's an interesting saw!  I actually have no miter saw in my shop, after my old Bosch slider finally died.  I do need to get a new one soon.  I'd be interested in hearing more about the model from Lee Valley.
Matthew

 

[hissatsu]

I decided a long time ago that I did not need a powered miter saw and it is unlikely that the Kapex will change that decision.

I am retired and do not work for money.  In a normal week, I probably  average about 50 hours of woodworking and carpentry.  About 40 percent of my work is off-site.

I have a high quality non-powered miter saw (see: http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=32926&cat=1,42884,43836) that is made in Sweden.  And I use it for most off-site work which requires high precision.  For simple angle cuts off site, I use my my Festool MFT and TS-75 combo.

When in the shop I use the tools metioned above as well as my table saw equipped with various after-market miter gauges and sleds.

That's a Nobex Champion, isn't it? Nice saw; I've had one for a year and a half. It's seen a lot of use. Even if I got a Kapex, I'd probably keep the Nobex for cutting small pieces.

Pedro

 

[JJ Wavra]

Matthew ,

I too have that saw it looks like a nobex( or at least mine is a nobex).  I bought mine when a rockler near was closing down.  It makes quick accurate cuts and with the fine tooth blades there is almost no tear out.  I just bought a 12 tpi blade it just arrived a few days ago.  I don't use the saw as much with the fine blade because of the time it takes to cut and most of my cutting does not require that fine.  There are some things that are great to cut on there I guess a general rule is if it is too small to go on the scms then it gets cut on the nobex, plus there is so much less mess.

The depth of cut is pretty deep, however the table is not very big.  It swings to 45 on both sides of ninety but only cuts perpendicular to the table.  

Hope this helps and I am sure frank will add more.

JJ

 

[Jerry Work]

As a general rule sliding compound miter saws are quite a bit more accurate at making 45 degree miters and/or bevels than a sled on a table saw.  The difference is in how large a work piece can be accommodated.  If the boxes you refer to are within the capacity of the SCMS then by all means use that. 

Yes, the small footprint of the Kapex and the ability to fit it up against a wall are great benefits from that design, especially where your shop space is at a premium.  What doesn't get discussed much is the build quality.  The Kapex uses brass bushings for the turning points instead of just a metal rod running through a casting, for example.  The large radius of the bevel protractor makes possible accurate sub-one degree accuracy for another.  Even though it weighs less than half my last high end SCMS (a blue one from another German company) it has a far better fit and feel.  Kinda like my first experience with a Porsche when I was 17 years old.......but that is a story for another time!

Jerry

Thanks for all the great advice!
Yes Jerry, my time with my family is very valuable, life is way too short!
And good idea...I've sold quite a few of my old tools on craigslist or donated them.

I have a very small shop, so the Kapex is perfect. No rear sliding arm to bump against the wall is a nice feature!
How to organize half a garage into a nice woodworking shop will be my next posting. I'm sure a lot of people are in my shoes.

In the near future, I hope to make more boxes, would this tool be productive in making 45 degree cuts? Or just use my TS with 45 degree sled?

Cheers!

 

[Frank Pellow]

Yes, it is a Nobex.  I should have said that.  The one I have is the largest available.  I use the 18tpi blade and find that it cuts very smoothley, albeit quite a bit slower that a power saw.  ;D  When I use it, I am more interested in quality of cut than in speed.  For speed, I use ewither a table saw or a circluar saw on may MFT.

 

[PeterK]

I believe I will be purchasing the Kapex based upon quality of saw. I own the Makita LS1013 and while many people rave about them, I have found several issues with it. The extension supports are not at the same level as the main table (too high), and the big problem is that the slider sticks EVERY time I pull it forward to make a cut. I have to bang it to get it to slide back. Have tried lubing, and have sent it in to be worked on but it still does it. I avoid using this tool because of it. It will go up for sale and will be replaced. I really freaked when I saw the price on the Kapex but it is starting to look like a required purchase now. Just can't wait to try one in a store some where.
Pete

 

[Brice Burrell]

  I'll add my 2 cents, the first thing is the Kapex does have a smaller footprint, but its still going to take up a lot space. The front to back measurement of the Kapex is around 31" add space for the hose to come out of the back and it more like 33" or 34", my Makita 1214 is about 38". The smallish size of the Kapex is an asset, its weight and the fact that is well balanced carrying it is much easier that my Makita. I do believe it will be the best miter saw on the market come July, I said that when I used one in Henderson and now that I've had one for a few weeks, well, I'm ever more convinced. I won't comment on its value, all I will say is, if you buy one, you won't regret it.