Do we need a Sys Generation 4?

[Northwoodsman]

After reading this it's all coming together for me now.  I purchased my first Festool product last August.  I have since purchased 6 more Festool tools and some empty Systainers to keep everything uniform and organized.  I'm designing a cabinet to store them in with shelves connected to full extension drawer slides.  I found the dimensions on this forum and then I noticed when I was out in my shop that the heights were slightly on a few of them.  Then I noticed that some of them had grooves in the side where it looks like they could perhaps slide onto a track.  I guess I have at least two generations.  This thread helped a lot.

 

[Coen]

After reading this it's all coming together for me now.  I purchased my first Festool product last August.  I have since purchased 6 more Festool tools and some empty Systainers to keep everything uniform and organized.  I'm designing a cabinet to store them in with shelves connected to full extension drawer slides.  I found the dimensions on this forum and then I noticed when I was out in my shop that the heights were slightly on a few of them.  Then I noticed that some of them had grooves in the side where it looks like they could perhaps slide onto a track.  I guess I have at least two generations.  This thread helped a lot.

Ouch. Sometimes not knowing is better  [tongue]

 

[Wood_Slice]

Yup definitelly should have kept sizes same (Sys1,2,3, and 4) and added different ones but still kept dimensions of the T-locks with the new improvements. Not a fan as a matter of fact I dislike the front handle on the small gen 3 boxes. Imagine the amount of people that have built their shops to the sizes of the T-lock size and are in such a way that they can be interchanged. A superb example is that of Timithy Wilmots workshop built with the T-lock arangement. I dont see how we can do this if we had some T-locks and Gen3. It would throw the entire built out of proportions.

New shop cabinet builds- what do I do? I have T-locks and Gen3 M136856463636. Very frustrating imo. Rarely do improvements bother me with the exception where improvements are going in wrong direction for me personally.

Additionaly the new gen3 drawer slides (saw on YT) do NOT let u open the lid when the drawer is fully out (festool drawer slides for gen3).

 

[mkasdin]

I’m guessing Bott had a lot of direction into the design. Festool need to redesign the boxes to house larger battery sizes and put a center hinge, make the boxes stronger? They’ve also gone away from the junky polyethylene vacuum formed inserts to that rigid foam. Personally, I like the front handle and the top handle that folds forward. I’m thinking it better suited the dimensions of a van buildout so the redesign is progress. I’m also wondering if Tanos had a patent(s) expiring so that caused the “new look.”

 

[mino]

Yup definitelly should have kept sizes same (Sys1,2,3, and 4) and added different ones but still kept dimensions of the T-locks with the new improvements. Not a fan as a matter of fact I dislike the front handle on the small gen 3 boxes. Imagine the amount of people that have built their shops to the sizes of the T-lock size and are in such a way that they can be interchanged. A superb example is that of Timithy Wilmots workshop built with the T-lock arangement. I dont see how we can do this if we had some T-locks and Gen3. It would throw the entire built out of proportions.

New shop cabinet builds- what do I do? I have T-locks and Gen3 M136856463636. Very frustrating imo. Rarely do improvements bother me with the exception where improvements are going in wrong direction for me personally.

Additionaly the new gen3 drawer slides (saw on YT) do NOT let u open the lid when the drawer is fully out (festool drawer slides for gen3).

The really only "good" solution is to stick to T-Locs and sell any SYS3 that come along to spoil your party.

They will be available at least next 10+ (likely 20+) years from Tanos. And who knows, Festool may still come to their senses.

 

[Svirre]

Rarely does a product change bother me as much as this one.
I have based a lot of storage around the T-Loc and now festool comes with a new bin system as well as new boxes but without the really nice combined lid and drawer versions

I just sent and email to festool about it with a complaint.
This is not a backward compatible system, not environmentally sound, not financially sound.
It is just different, and I am currently reconsidering my storage due to this.
I am a huge fan of festool tools but this was very arrogant of a change to the consumer from festool. I have to say: “shame on you for this one festool”.

 

[Coen]

Also note the new Systainer trolley is not compatible with the classic Systainers and the previous one is already sold out everywhere.

Besides the fact it's huuuuge, wasting a massive amount of space, but that seems to be the theme of the whole Sys3.... same tool in ~20mm bigger box.

 

[DeformedTree]

The sys cart changes might be the dumbest part of all of it.  How hard is it to understand the concept of keeping the footprint the same. They could have changed it all they want, just keep the footprint, height, wheel setup the same so people can add without issue.

That is something where you can tell who ever was working this just didn't care or think at all. It's not hard to have an early planning meeting and agree to not change the form factor, just update the plastic as needed, but stick to the same shape.

 

[Coen]

The sys cart changes might be the dumbest part of all of it.  How hard is it to understand the concept of keeping the footprint the same. They could have changed it all they want, just keep the footprint, height, wheel setup the same so people can add without issue.

That is something where you can tell who ever was working this just didn't care or think at all. It's not hard to have an early planning meeting and agree to not change the form factor, just update the plastic as needed, but stick to the same shape.

Classic compatibility was sacrificed to accomodate the Midi Systainers. And they probably definitely wanted it to be rackmountable and having it only as wide as a regular systainer would make it unstable (and still break compatibility with the classic sys).

It's definitely nice for those that fall in the category of using Midi Systainers + not having classic systainers.. and a loss for everyone else

But Makita still sells a classic-compatible trolley..

I see the Festool 495020 is already selling used at collector's prices....

 

[DeformedTree]

interesting on makita having a sys-cart.  Will have to keep it in mind but looks like might be hard to find in the US, also looks a lot more expensive than the Tanos/Festool ones.  I would guess it will suffer the same fate as the Tanos/Festool cart and be no more.

It's one of those things that is a way over priced item in the first place, but I bought them, changing the size of them is just insane thing to do to those who were willing to give them 90 bucks for a hunk of plastic and 4 castors.

Like anything else, if you are going to bring out a new version that doesn't directly replace the old, don't get rid of the old. Like anything else, new versions of things are fine, changes are fine, just don't go breaking things.

 

[Coen]

interesting on makita having a sys-cart.  Will have to keep it in mind but looks like might be hard to find in the US, also looks a lot more expensive than the Tanos/Festool ones.  I would guess it will suffer the same fate as the Tanos/Festool cart and be no more.

No it wont as Makita has no Midi "systainers" and not even anything T-Loc except for the Toolboxes. For Festool this trolley change meant breaking compatibility on something they didn't sell for ~10 years. If Makita was to disappear their trolley now in favor of the trolley Festool currently sells, they would break compatibility with boxes they still currently sell. The Makita one seems to be an exact clone of the Tanos one btw. See Makita P-83886 and Tanos 80600421

It's one of those things that is a way over priced item in the first place, but I bought them, changing the size of them is just insane thing to do to those who were willing to give them 90 bucks for a hunk of plastic and 4 castors.

Like anything else, if you are going to bring out a new version that doesn't directly replace the old, don't get rid of the old. Like anything else, new versions of things are fine, changes are fine, just don't go breaking things.

I have two of the even older version... with the four rubber loops. Meh. But if I were to update... I definitely don't have space for more rolley protrusion..

Like anything else, if you are going to bring out a new version that doesn't directly replace the old, don't get rid of the old. Like anything else, new versions of things are fine, changes are fine, just don't go breaking things.

I kinda suspect they want everyone over to the "new" system...

 

[DeformedTree]

I know it's the same as the Tanos, that's why my concern would be it goes away, if Tanos just stops making them.  That's part of the greater unknown in all of this, is how Tanos supports all the non-festool customers/partners they make stuff for. Assuming they continue to support them as they have been, then it circles back to why not just keep offering the old sys-cart for those who want them. If they tell all the customers/partners they need to convert, well then they will probably unleash a storm that will not be pretty.

 

[mino]

I kinda suspect they want everyone over to the "new" system...

Wanting and "having" are two different things.

The same as I view the Bott-ised/Van-ised SYS3 a complement-but-not-a-substitute-of T-Loc the new Cart is a complement to the old one on the functionality side.

E.g. did you know that the old card is made such that the catches are a designed-in weak point ? If they are over-stressed, they simply will break-off. Not damaging the cart nor the systainer. I had this happened while using the base on a bike trailer.

The new one firstly does not the stability-strength in old one:
- the height is lower, reducing the twist strength, the new cart relied on the connected systainer to help it there.
- the single-point-connection via a T-Loc is much weaker than the two-point ones in a "pull" scenario
- the cart itself is much wider, making it less suitable for shop use

In general, the nwe SYS-RB is excellent and 100% optimised for Bott vehicle system used and is usable also for causual user.

The old CART is a much more universal beast where e.g. floor-mounting in a vehicle, wall-mounting, ore even plan "having your systainers on carts in a shop" are valid scenarios considered and optimised for in the design.

Not so with the SYS-RB which is mostly a one-trick pony.

That said, Festool having their as-little-SKUs-as-possible philosophy, I am sure the SYS-CART will shortly not be available in the Festool livery.

But TANOS is still selling the Classic Systainers mainly to their industrial customers which require a long support tail. Until that changes, I do not see the SYS-CART going anywhere as a design/product.

 

[Rumblefish]

I Stick with the T Locs.

The sys3 tb Toolboxes in M and L are nice though. Also the transparent top Organizers.

One big step I‘d like Festool/ Tanos to make is direct Accessibility in the Stack.

a) bigger drawer options fit SYS Sort
b) drawer or door system for systainers

That would give this system excellent usability in Basic Stack Mode without demounting or needing the exclsive rack system.

I don‘t know of any toolbox system that delivers flexibility like systainers. I hate Lboxxes. They are horrible to use for me.

Auer packaging came up with an interresting approach for a challenging Price point. Bit still in the beginning with a Bit to optimize

 

[Coen]

Huh, with T-Loc you can already access in the stack. Although it's a bit tricky if the stack is long and heavy...

 

[Imemiter]

I hate Lboxxes. They are horrible to use for me.

It's hard for me to believe how irritating L-Boxxes became once I started using T-locs. I had a pretty good start on them too. They also blew it by updating the boxxes without a mind to how the new cases would work with their older cases, tool inserts, and the cart. That disconnect is what drove the stake in their heart for me. It also gives me pause about Festool's Sys^3 stuff. 

 

[Coen]

In general the L-boxes have a 33% larger footprint that is wasted on an inefficient inlay  [tongue]

But they do fit the ~500mm long drills in their diagonal, a Systainer doesn't.

I've thought about moving my Bosch GBH 2-28 to a Systainer, but that would then be the sole Midi Systainer.

 

[DeformedTree]

In general the L-boxes have a 33% larger footprint that is wasted on an inefficient inlay  [tongue]

But they do fit the ~500mm long drills in their diagonal, a Systainer doesn't.

I've thought about moving my Bosch GBH 2-28 to a Systainer, but that would then be the sole Midi Systainer.

Yeah, even before systainer 3 came out, I had looked at the midi's for 1 tool (saw zaw), maybe 1 other too. I liked the idea of having that verses having to go tall normal systainer to fit it.  But to just have a couple goofball sized ones defeats it all. If they had maxi systainers in t-lok, and in all the shorter heights back then, it would have been a nice option for saw zaws, caulk guns, big drills.  Would at least work with storage well.

 

[Samo]

I would be more interested if another slide was offered that would add full extension functionality to shop cabinet builders.

Also, I think the SYS M 187 is way to big for a smaller tool like a drill instead of a T-Loc 1.  [unsure]

 

[Coen]

I would be more interested if another slide was offered that would add full extension functionality to shop cabinet builders.

Also, I think the SYS M 187 is way to big for a smaller tool like a drill instead of a T-Loc 1.  [unsure]

That is the whole essence of the Sys3; 20mm wasted space per box.

Except for stuff that shipped in Sys-I and now ships in Sys3 M112