do you miss your table saw?
- Thread starter HowardH
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WarnerConstCo.
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jobsworth said:
Pretty good. Been moving quite a bit of machinery, got a moulder, trying to secure some production part contracts, trying to eliminate all installations as well.
2016 was a tough personal year, 2017 is looking to be great though.
jackandhenry
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As primarily a finish carpenter and someone who owns and uses a lot of festool products I would never rule out the table saw. for a quick thin rip or even scribes the time it takes to set up the track saw and especially for thin strips adds up a lot of time throughout the job phase. With all that money I save using a table saw along with my other festools I can use that extra money and put it towards a new tool or bonus money for other things in life. Festool is amazing and make great tools but some things you just can't skip. IT would be nice if they made a contractor portable table saw. Not the conversion kit you see in Europe but a dedicated table saw. I think if they made one for a reasonable price many people would use them. Especially if they nailed down the dust collection on that saw. Just my thoughts.
MrToolJunkie
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NO - I still have it, but I have not turned it on in over 3 years - literally. I can survive without it. I keep it "just in case" and I am already invested in it, but I have thought long and hard about selling it and getting back from real estate. Now, I have a phenomenal bandsaw that is well tuned and a some other saws with rip guides that are very accurate so I have other means for thin rips.
If I had dedicated space and could leave one set up all the time, then I would most definitely have one in the arsenal.
If I had dedicated space and could leave one set up all the time, then I would most definitely have one in the arsenal.
I have a cabinet saw with the 52" fence, I would LOVE to have the space back. I am just getting started into my Festool journey but I already have seen that yes Festool can do it all, but in many cases it takes longer to set up the Festool then it does to cut the wood and on a table saw the setup is even faster. I so badly want the space that cabinet saw takes up.
I was going to buy a SawStop jobsite saw, I figured the way it folds up would give me everything I need, the store guy said I would not be happy downgrading to a 1.5HP SS after living with a 3HP Unisaw for 40 years. Sure made me think when the sales guy who in theory would like to make the sale said that. He was pushing the contractor saw and in my little mind, it was not enough of a space saver to do it. I bought my Unisaw and Unifence new in 1978 so I had it quite a long time but i want that space back.
I was going to buy a SawStop jobsite saw, I figured the way it folds up would give me everything I need, the store guy said I would not be happy downgrading to a 1.5HP SS after living with a 3HP Unisaw for 40 years. Sure made me think when the sales guy who in theory would like to make the sale said that. He was pushing the contractor saw and in my little mind, it was not enough of a space saver to do it. I bought my Unisaw and Unifence new in 1978 so I had it quite a long time but i want that space back.
nickao
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If you are just into your Festool journey you are not far enough along.
After a year, two if you are suborn, you will realize you want that table saw back. I now only use the track saw for rough cutting, framing or something I dont need precision(precision means repeat) meaning maybe one or two parts. If super accuracy is needed the track saw can get it done, but it can be a long set up time or it's to the table saw instead as well.
If I am going to cut 100 thin strips, it's the table saw.
If I want something ready to glue up with two matching jointed faces, I use the table saw.
If I need to cut 18" off a sheet of plywood for a roof, I use the track saw. If I need a piece for wall or floor sheathing there is nothing better than cutting off the ply stack with a track saw.
If I need to cut 4 or more 18" wide x 72" long parts off expensive zebra wood ply for a cabinet side, I use the table saw.
We can make a butter knife work for cuts if we take long enough to sharpen it and than make the cut, but if I am going to work at my same speed, same productivity, I need to use the tools that keep me on that pace. It just takes way to long to ensure certain cuts are perfect using the tracks saw. I was getting to where my brother would tilt his head say, "hey if you just used the table saw you would not only be done setting up, the cuts would be done". Often I would find parts cut using the track saw were only just usable and not as perfect as I would like or as perfect as they would have been if I had used a table saw.
I know for a fact more than one "famous" internet woodworker that tried the ONLY Track saw shop eventually went back to the table saw and now use the track saw in much the same way I do. The track saw is not the get rid of the table saw tool some believe it is. Even for a hobbyist that bench top table saw is going to come in handy and there are still some things that a big cabinet saw is simply the best tool for the job.
After a year, two if you are suborn, you will realize you want that table saw back. I now only use the track saw for rough cutting, framing or something I dont need precision(precision means repeat) meaning maybe one or two parts. If super accuracy is needed the track saw can get it done, but it can be a long set up time or it's to the table saw instead as well.
If I am going to cut 100 thin strips, it's the table saw.
If I want something ready to glue up with two matching jointed faces, I use the table saw.
If I need to cut 18" off a sheet of plywood for a roof, I use the track saw. If I need a piece for wall or floor sheathing there is nothing better than cutting off the ply stack with a track saw.
If I need to cut 4 or more 18" wide x 72" long parts off expensive zebra wood ply for a cabinet side, I use the table saw.
We can make a butter knife work for cuts if we take long enough to sharpen it and than make the cut, but if I am going to work at my same speed, same productivity, I need to use the tools that keep me on that pace. It just takes way to long to ensure certain cuts are perfect using the tracks saw. I was getting to where my brother would tilt his head say, "hey if you just used the table saw you would not only be done setting up, the cuts would be done". Often I would find parts cut using the track saw were only just usable and not as perfect as I would like or as perfect as they would have been if I had used a table saw.
I know for a fact more than one "famous" internet woodworker that tried the ONLY Track saw shop eventually went back to the table saw and now use the track saw in much the same way I do. The track saw is not the get rid of the table saw tool some believe it is. Even for a hobbyist that bench top table saw is going to come in handy and there are still some things that a big cabinet saw is simply the best tool for the job.
There is almost allways a tool the is better at performing a specific task than any other. That being said if money or time is not an over riding concern than one should consider that it is possible to build a house with a hatchet, but WHY would you. I have a Powermatic 66 that I wanted for 30 years and have not used it in the last 9 months but there is not a chance in Hades that I will sell it. I use my tools for commercial/industrial tasks so have the luxury of having a space that I can keep for it, even unused at the moment.
Tyler Ernsberger
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I would not get rid of a table saw all together. I would look at getting a smaller job site saw on a stand. I would look at the Bosch or Sawstop, both saws are easy to move around. Dust collection is decent and they are highly mobile.
Chance Beasley
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I had a SawStop PCS with a 52" fence in a small garage space. Loved the machine. But, it was huge!!! So, I sold it and bought a SawStop jobsite saw. It serves its purpose. Quickly ripping or making repetitive cuts for most projects, a table saw is sooooo much easier than a tracksaw with MFT. Don't get me wrong, I still love tracksaw/MFT combo. But if I could only have one, it would be a table saw, even a jobsite saw. And, the SawStop jobsite saw has incredible dust collection with a shopvac/dust deputy combo which is typically important for people who have jumped all in to the Festool world. (Full disclosure... I don't work for SawStop. I'm just happy with both versions of table saws I have owned.) [big grin]
For me the question is not do I get rid of the table saw all together, its can I replace a big 10" Unisaw with 52" fence and go to the SawStop Jobsite saw and be happy. Like I said in my earlier post my dealer thought I would miss the HP of the Unisaw but now that I have a track saw to break down sheet goods, I just don't feel I need that big Unisaw anymore. The only things left would be dado's and other specialized things on the table saw but most (all?) can be done with other tools like my new OF 1400 and track guide.
I don't think I could live without a table saw, its too handy for making face frames and many other repetitive cuts.
I don't think I could live without a table saw, its too handy for making face frames and many other repetitive cuts.
tdwilli1
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mikeyr said:
I first started doing dado's with a router or router table (even using my 1010 with guide rail) and it got the job done but not very easy or repeatable. After getting dado blades for my table saw I will never go back to using the router for that again!
Several things -
You would definitely miss your table saw if you got rid of it (space the only reason to even consider it). There are many tasks that are just easier and quicker on the table saw; maybe even more accurate regardless of the table saw.
I have never been satisfied with the results of dados on a table saw regardless of blade. I have an Incra router table and everything I do is completely repeatable, always extremely accurate, and the results (especially the bottom of the dado or groove) are always better.
I have the Sawstop Job Site saw and have always felt it gets a bad rap, but I suppose that it depends on your expectations. No jobsite saw is going to replicate a cabinet saw in quality of cut, accuracy, range of use, and power. However, I have cut 8/4 maple without problems. The resulting rip cuts are extremely smooth (even with the original SS blade). The rip fence is very accurate. What I get in addition is the space I save by being able to move it out of the way when not in use and the safety. It's a good saw. I've owned it well over a year and don't regret buying it.
If I had owned a great cabinet saw to begin with I would never have gotten rid of it.
You would definitely miss your table saw if you got rid of it (space the only reason to even consider it). There are many tasks that are just easier and quicker on the table saw; maybe even more accurate regardless of the table saw.
I have never been satisfied with the results of dados on a table saw regardless of blade. I have an Incra router table and everything I do is completely repeatable, always extremely accurate, and the results (especially the bottom of the dado or groove) are always better.
I have the Sawstop Job Site saw and have always felt it gets a bad rap, but I suppose that it depends on your expectations. No jobsite saw is going to replicate a cabinet saw in quality of cut, accuracy, range of use, and power. However, I have cut 8/4 maple without problems. The resulting rip cuts are extremely smooth (even with the original SS blade). The rip fence is very accurate. What I get in addition is the space I save by being able to move it out of the way when not in use and the safety. It's a good saw. I've owned it well over a year and don't regret buying it.
If I had owned a great cabinet saw to begin with I would never have gotten rid of it.
WarnerConstCo.
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My straight line rip saws take up a 7'×7' area.
I never use a TS for ripping anything anymore.
My Ekstrom has a 20hp arbor motor and will rip up to 4 1/2" thick and feed up to 250' per minute.
No need to do any edge work off that saw, glue panels right up.
I never use a TS for ripping anything anymore.
My Ekstrom has a 20hp arbor motor and will rip up to 4 1/2" thick and feed up to 250' per minute.
No need to do any edge work off that saw, glue panels right up.
I have a sawstop job site saw and used it to rip 6/4 walnut into strips using a Freud rip blade, no problem. I would love a SS PCS or Industrial but like the others no space. I use it for smaller plywood panels since as others have mentioned, it is easier to set up than the track saw. I align it with a woodpecker saw gauge, an A-Line It and sometimes a mitutoyo depth micrometer. Moving everything on the track saw is no issue but assuring it stays square adds some time. I do have a slop stop on it. I recently added more MFT which I will set up for specific tasks. Sick what I purchased before I retired which is why I have no space.......
This is the kind of stuff I wanted to hear...I have been thinking the little jobsite would be perfect and get me lots of space back. I could not live without a table saw, but with the Festool track saw I doubt I will breaking down sheet goods with the table saw anymore, I would only use the table saw for stiles/rails and other repetitive cuts. But my wife brought a valid point last night, my router table is incorporated into my table saw, I placed it in the side table so I could use the same fence from the saw. Made some sacrificial lumber that screws into the table saw fence and that becomes my router table fence, also routed some t-track and guide rails into the side table, if I got rid of my table saw for a Jobsite, I would have to get a new router table and now I am back to using up nearly the same space.
Going to look at the SS 36" PCS, since that has a large enough side table to put my router into and I save some space from the 52" fence.
Star Trek was right, space is the final frontier and I need more space.
Going to look at the SS 36" PCS, since that has a large enough side table to put my router into and I save some space from the 52" fence.
Star Trek was right, space is the final frontier and I need more space.
With a jobsite saw like SS or Bosch you can fold the saw up and completely move it out of the way into an unused corner. For me, since i don't use the saw all the time and it's fast and easy to fold up and move out of the way, I gain the central section of my shop for whatever I need it for.
Same same...didn't get rid of my TS as the two compliment each other. Learned long ago that no tool is the end all be all and that each has it's specific purpose and place in the box. That being said, on a budget, a craftsman can become creative and use a screwdriver to hammer in nails. I'm lucky enough to have a hammer...
WarnerConstCo. said:
Got it, Darcy, but we all know about your afflictions. [poke]
That said, if I were trying to make a living at this stuff I could do worse than following your model. There is something to be said for having machines more or less permanently set up for all of the various tasks needed to do what you do. I think going back to continuously changing over your MFT to make various cuts would now drive you nuts. you need big iron for the volume of work you now do, no question. The corollary is that you need a lot more room. In for a penny, in for a pound.
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