Does the Angle Unit work well for cutting sheet goods square?

[BarryL]

Hello all.  I am new to Festool and am ready to make a purchase.  My primary reason to own a saw (and eventually an MFT - or hybrid meaning build a bigger one to handle sheet goods easier) is to be able to cut sheet goods and cut them square.  I saw the angle unit and wondered how this worked for cutting sheet goods at perfect 90 degrees?  What other methods and tools would you use or do you feel is required for me to purchase to effectively and efficiently break sheet goods down for cabinet construction? Thanks!

Barry

 

[fpsnyder]

Barry - I use the angle gauge to break down sheets to their approximate size, then I cut them down to final size and square them on either my MFT or table saw. The angle gauge doesn't index, so it's not too difficult to throw it out of adjustment while using it. The MFT is a better method for sizing and squaring panels.

 

[BarryL]

When using the MFT and starting out with a full size sheet, how well suited if the MFT?  I have seen others who have posted mods to the MFT to make them bigger.  Was their purpose to be able to handle the full sheet to break it down?  I am trying to learn what accessories I should have to accomplish the job.  How possible is it to make square crosscuts on sheet goods without the MFT and what method would you suggest using?

 

[Daviddubya]

There are several reviews on John Lucas' site that address ways to make square cuts with the Festool rails.  Start here:
http://www.woodshopdemos.com/men-fes.htm

I'm one of the folks that made a larger MFT - in my case two MFT's connected.  One MFT cannot handle full sized sheet goods.  Even my double MFT will not crosscut a full 48" with all of the sheet on the table.  The method of making two marks on the sheet and cutting to those marks yields very accurate cuts.  If you measure accurately, your cuts will be square.  Once the sheet is broken down a bit, I transfer the sheet pieces to the MFT where square cuts are very easy and fast.

I use a cutting platform that I made to sit on top of a pair of sawhorses for the initial sheet breakdown.  My platform breaks down easily for storage.  Here's an example of what I built:
http://woodstore.net/cutplatsheet.html

 

[george$hairston]

i use large aluminum speed square to position the guide rail.
this seems faster and more accurate than measuring and making two marks.

 

[Michael Kellough]

To reduce the chance of knocking my angle unit off angle I put a strip of self adhesive sandpaper (400 grit from Klingspor) around the knob so I can get it tighter. Also, I use the shortest guide rail that will span the work and keep any excessive overhangs to the front (opperator side) of the work so it has less leverage advantage to one side of the angle unit's pivot joint. Finally, I lift the rubber strip side of the guide rail as I position it so the sticky foam isn't resisting movement and putting more rotational pressure on the joint.

Doing all that I've been able to get good 2 foot cuts but I haven't tried 4 foot cuts. For long cuts I prefer to make marks as far appart as possible and fit a loose guide rail to the marks. This allows very high angular accuracy. Keep in mind that 1/10 degree deviation from the desired angle is off 1/32" at only 2 feet. You can do better than that with marks and even better with a template or story pole.

 

[greg mann]

The angle unit is often maligned and I think it comes from unrealistic expectations. I don't have mine in front of me but, IIRC, it is less than a foot long. To think we can register off that short of a length and project unnoticeable deviations out much more than two feet in unreasonable, especially if that area off which we have registered is a factory cut that might have been bumped around and compromised during shipping and handling. Factory edges vary widely in quality and the guiderail cut will be far higher in quality. Without trimming the factory edge we are reduced to measuring back to a lesser quality edge at best. We can get pretty close but I feel that in those cases where it really matters some form of double-checking is in order. Measuring and marking or backing everything up with a larger known square, or even verifying with a 3-4-5 layout can save a lot of grief. If the factory edge is good enough then it is probably also true that a little out-of-square is good enough as well. If no out-of-square condition is tolerable then I would feel that a follow-up trim cut on the factory edge would be very advisable, and probably on the MFT (or a slider if you got it  ;D).

 

[BarryL]

Thank you for the replies.  From what I can see so far, I would have to agree that it would be hard to rely on referencing to a factory edge if you are looking to have square panels that you can rely on to assemble easily and square.  I guess what I envision is a table large enough to lay the entire 4x8 on, the ability to rip the bottom factory edge off, then pull it to a bottom edge somehow that you know is square to the guiderail and then have the ability to easily measure out how much length you want to cut off and then let er rip...er crosscut!  Something like a vertical panel saw with the MFT....and make it digital to boot.  Is that asking for too much??   What is typically the method of work with the guiderail...to position it to the cutline on the sheet...or slide the sheet under it to align the cut mark on the sheet to the guiderail? 

I am thinking about just getting a ts-75 and a ct-33 first and then possibly the angle unit.  I have a few projects that I would like to use the saw on which require cutting a lot of sheet goods up for cabinets (for making my workstation cabinets)  Could I get by temporarily with this setup to get a "close to square cut" by using methods others have mentioned with laying rigid foam down, put your sheet good on top and then guiderail on cut mark and then croscut.  Would the angle unit get me close for doing this?

Thanks

 

[Dave Rudy]

Barry,

My .02 is save the angle unit money and start saving for an MFT.  The MFT holds the guide rail by fixtures at both ends.  You then mark the workpiece, or use fence(s) on the MFT to align the work to the rail.  On the MFT, you can easily square a fence (perpendicular to the guide rail) so that all cuts are square.

There are two places to do some research on this -- one is Jerry Work's manual here: http://www.bobmarinosbesttools.com/docs/MFT_multifunction_table.pdf.

The other is www.woodshopdemos.com  (John's latest demonstration is actually a digital system for measuring (narrow) rip cuts.  If you're not ready for multiple MFT's or one large one, go with a larger table for sheet goods -- I really like using foamboard underneath.  The two razor blade method of setting the guiderail (detailed at the website above) will get you extremely accurate cuts without the disadvantage of trying to project an accurate line from a short blade like the angle unit. 

To think we can register off that short of a length and project unnoticeable deviations out much more than two feet in unreasonable

Slightly OT:  A friend once pointed out that if a ship leaves New York for London and aims 1 degree off course to the South, it will make port somewhere around N. Africa.  Could be slight hyperbole (I havent done the measurements or math) but it illustrates the point quite nicely.  A short square is not a reliable way to project a long square line.

Dave

 

[BarryL]

Dave

That sounds like something like what I am looking for.  I looked at the woodshopdemo pictorial but I am a little unclear about what they have done.  I am very interested in trying to add a digital fence/reference edge to an MFT.  Which digital fence was used (I went to the site)?  What is the longest length that can be measured?

What I envision is something along the lines of laying the sheet down, and then moving the guiderail to the mark made on the sheet, make the cut.  It would be the guiderail movement that would operate the digital scale such that you could reference the right side edge, move the guiderail to the left (like a tablesaw fence) to a mark and that would indicate your distance.  Of course there would have to be a fence for the long side of the sheet and that sheet would have to of had its factory edge cut with the saw.  I am thinking along the lines of how a vertical panel saw would work.  A horizontal MFT panel saw is what I want!

 

[greg mann]

I think you would be unnecessarily complicating things by trying to tie the guiderail movement to the readout. The beauty of the MFT is its simplicity and the fact that the guidrail is positively secured to a static position on the table. The digital fence John fabricated is a moveable fence just like a digital fence on a tablesaw, which is exactly what that particular readout was designed for. John just adapted it to the MFT. I think John's process is essentially to have the digital scale attached to a sheet, MDF I think, which can be zeroed by aligning the edge to the guiderail spinterguard, clamping the readout head to the MFT fence and zeroing the readout value. Alternately, one could leave a little stock and trim the end of the fence with a guiderail cut and zero out right there. Either way, you can now just move the fence to the left whatever amount you need for your cut length, or width if you are talking rips. Want it out of the way? unclamp the head and take it off. Thirty seconds is my guess. Your are left registering so there is no need to accommodate saw kerf and there is no chance of having a bind against a right reference fence. This is a variation on the MFS fence that Jerry presented in his "Getting the most out of" series. To me, it just shows that there are many ways to get efficient rips off the MFT: right reference like Matt and a few others, left reference with stops off the back of the rail like John Stevens or Jay St. Peter, With a digital fence like John Lucas or an MFS fence like Jerry, or even the hinged fences (sorry, but I can't remember whose they are). The only limit is length and that can be mitigated by using the long side of the table or joining two together and using a longer rail. Granted one would not want to jump in and out of two table setups too often but can be done. I would think the first few times would be the hardest and then, like most things, it would get easier and faster.

 

[Dave Rudy]

Barry,

I think Greg hit the nail on the head.  I think to turn the MFT into a kind of horizontal panel saw would fight the design of the tool.  And you dont need to, since you can make repeatable precise rips with the MFT a number of ways.

As far as woodshopdemos is concerned, check this thread/message for the details on the digital gauge:http://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=513.msg4510#msg4510

 

[Corwin]

I thought of a large 4+ x 8+ MFT, but really all that is needed is the ability to setup for the cuts -- 4' and 8' -- material supports work fine for the hang over ;D  I use two 1080s (for a 48"x62" table) with a 75" guide.  I now have a 4'x4' MFT (no base yet) that works with the other two for a 48"x110" top -- and I use my new 118" guide.

Also, on my saw-horse, 2x and foam cutting table (in garage) I used the Stops from the 32mm Hole Drilling Setup to make narrow 8' long cuts to the right of the guide.  Really liked that!

There are really a lot a ways to set up for these operations.  I've even used my Incra LS Postioner to try narrow rips.  What ever works for the job...

 

[Tinker]

When breaking down sheets outside (Nearly impossible to do a whole sheet in my shop), i work right on my truck, or using a couple of 2x's, off the taigate.  from my days of working as a ason contractor, i still have a couple of 48" sheetrock squares.  I keep them in a corner where no traffic to possible bump and mayy bump out of square.  I lay them at opposite sides of the sheet and edgesagainst each other.  If they both line up perfectly, they are still square for use.  So far, i have never had a problem.  Once i determine the SR squares are acurate, i start making marks with SHARP pencil.  Once i have a couple of layot marks, I like to use John Lucas' method with razor blades and set the edge of my guidebar to the blades, repeat as necessary til the sheet is down to dimensions.

I have that MFT angle, I have used the sandpaper under the knob as John has shown on his site, but i just don't particularly like it.  It is, so far, the only tool I have gotten from Festool that I have been unhappy with.  It just does not hold tru, and even if it does hold true, i have found that to line up those tiny dits and be even a hair off will make a big difference at far side of a 4' sheet.
Tinker