Doing better at installing wall cabinets

[Sparktrician]

I also use what I call lock screws that go through the cabinet back, just below where the fixed cleat is.  This screw keeps the cabinets from being accidentally bumped up and off the cleats, but allows the cabinets to be slid right and left as needed.

Thank you Willy.  Do you have any more specifics on these screws?  Links or anything?  Appreciate it.

There's nothing special about these screws, although GRK screws aren't configured right to work in this circumstance due to the absence of threads right under the head.  I generally use sheet metal screws with a pan head and turn them in by hand so they don't strip out the cabinet back and leave ugly holes.  The object here is to set the screw low enough that it doesn't contact the fixed cleat, and it doesn't contact the wall surface either.  You want to use a screw that is long enough to get under the fixed cleat to prevent the cabinet from being lifted off the cleat accidentally, yet short enough that if the cabinet is slid right or left, the screw won't drag on the wall and leave a trench.  You'll need to select a screw that penetrates the cabinet back and is long enough to accommodate the thickness of the cleat attached to the cabinet.  You get the picture.  Tom noted earlier that he cuts the cleat at 30 degrees to make sliding cabinets easier.  I've sometimes used a wipe of beeswax on the mating surface of the cleats for the same reason, although I use a 45 decree cut. 

 

[Packard]

Or use Ikea's mounting system.  Fairly cheap at $11.00 US$ for an 84" long section.  With the price of lumber lately that is probably cheaper than making a French cleat.  I am not sure if they sell the clips separately.

 

[DynaGlide]

[member=7493]Sparktrician[/member] Those locking screws become a moot point if the cleat is only there to aid in installation, correct? Since you would be driving GRK cabinet screws through the cabinet cleat into studs at the top cleat and the bottom nailer for a permanent install.

Thanks,
Matt

 

[Sparktrician]

[member=7493]Sparktrician[/member] Those locking screws become a moot point if the cleat is only there to aid in installation, correct? Since you would be driving GRK cabinet screws through the cabinet cleat into studs at the top cleat and the bottom nailer for a permanent install.

Thanks,
Matt

Actually, no, Matt.  The locking screw's purpose is to keep the cabinet from being accidentally moved up and off the cleats.  The cleats are anchored to studs using cabinet screws, shimmed as necessary if the wall wants to wander.  The weight of the cabinet keeps it on the cleats in most circumstances.  Also, no cabinet is mounted using less than two cleats.  I typically set fixed cleats starting at 12" AFF, and every 18" thereafter (30", 48", 60" and 78" AFF).  In your situation, I'd set two cleats, one at 60" AFF and one at 78" AFF.  Mount cleats to your cabinets such that you get the desired cabinet height. 

 

[Packard]

[member=7493]Sparktrician[/member] Those locking screws become a moot point if the cleat is only there to aid in installation, correct? Since you would be driving GRK cabinet screws through the cabinet cleat into studs at the top cleat and the bottom nailer for a permanent install.

Thanks,
Matt

I've made a vanity with 27" legs on the front and no legs in the rear.  I attached the rear using a French cleat.  Since the vanity is just for make-up and there was not plumbing involved, I wanted to make it easily removable if I needed to refinish it.  So instead of using screws, I drilled holes and slid in nails with heads.  It was a friction fit and the nails will not easily back out.  They will prevent up-lift and potentially crashing to the floor.

Normally almost any light-duty screw will suffice to keep the cabinet attached to the cleat as long as it is long enough to reach the cleat.  It does not have to hit a stud.

 

[DynaGlide]

[member=7493]Sparktrician[/member] Those locking screws become a moot point if the cleat is only there to aid in installation, correct? Since you would be driving GRK cabinet screws through the cabinet cleat into studs at the top cleat and the bottom nailer for a permanent install.

Thanks,
Matt

Actually, no, Matt.  The locking screw's purpose is to keep the cabinet from being accidentally moved up and off the cleats.  The cleats are anchored to studs using cabinet screws, shimmed as necessary if the wall wants to wander.  The weight of the cabinet keeps it on the cleats in most circumstances.  Also, no cabinet is mounted using less than two cleats.  I typically set fixed cleats starting at 12" AFF, and every 18" thereafter (30", 48", 60" and 78" AFF).  In your situation, I'd set two cleats, one at 60" AFF and one at 78" AFF.  Mount cleats to your cabinets such that you get the desired cabinet height.

I think I get it now. When you do your french cleat cabinets, you're relying entirely on the french cleat (or multiple french cleats) for mounting of the cabinets. No screws other than your locking screws go through the cabinet back.

Whereas what I was thinking was to use the cleat as an installation aid. Set the cabinet on the cleat, position it, and screw through the back, into the cabinet cleat, into the strip and/or a stud.

I've been known to be dense so if I'm still not getting it I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Or use Ikea's mounting system.  Fairly cheap at $11.00 US$ for an 84" long section.  With the price of lumber lately that is probably cheaper than making a French cleat.  I am not sure if they sell the clips separately.

Go to the parts department. Sometimes they give them to you for free. It is a very practical system.

 

[Packard]

You can put a cleat under the cabinets but then would have to remove it and repair the damage to the wall or cover it with a backsplash.

There are various cabinet jacks that make this work easy. 
https://thehomewoodworker.com/cabinet-jacks/

 

[Stan Tillinghast]

Thanks for posting the IKEA rail installation video, and thanks for the link to the FastCap Upper Hand jacks. I was looking at those in the hardwood & hardware store.
I’m planning to install some high cabinets in the garage—by myself—and those look like a great help.
The IKEA rail video demonstrated that the cabinets do fine with just one rail; although I would want to fasten the rails at the studs.

 

[Sparktrician]

I think I get it now. When you do your french cleat cabinets, you're relying entirely on the french cleat (or multiple french cleats) for mounting of the cabinets. No screws other than your locking screws go through the cabinet back.

 

Actually, the screws that tie the movable cleats to the cabinet go through the cabinet back, as well as the locking screw. 

I've been known to be dense so if I'm still not getting it I wouldn't be surprised.

I'm not buying that one...  [big grin]

 

[Packard]

Fastcap makes cabinet jacks.  The tall ones sell at $82.00 a pair; the short ones at $32.00 per pair.  The short ones require that there be lower cabinets for them to rest on.  The tall ones will not work if the lower cabinets are already installed.

The first video shows how it works.  The 2nd video is more detailed.



In the USA Woodworkers Express is a competitive and reliable supplier (at least from my experience).
https://www.woodworkerexpress.com/search.php?mode=search&page=1

 

[Bob D.]

Another idea for locking French cleats.

 

[JeremyH.]

Cabinet jacks are trash. You want T-jacks.

 

[Packard]

I was not familiar with the T-Jacks.  Thanks for that.
https://www.rockler.com/t-jacks-brains-over-brawn-in-cabinet-installation

 

[Packard]

Another idea for locking French cleats.

I could not be 100% sure, but it looked like he made the cleats from plywood.  Conceptually, I am not a fan of using plywood for French cleats.  The strips are fairly narrow and plywood in narrow strips can delaminate much easier than large pieces.  Also the stresses on the cleat can easily be in the direction that would cause a strip to delaminate. 

Other than that, I thought it was very clever.

 

[Cheese]

I could not be 100% sure, but it looked like he made the cleats from plywood.  Conceptually, I am not a fan of using plywood for French cleats.  The strips are fairly narrow and plywood in narrow strips can delaminate much easier than large pieces.  Also the stresses on the cleat can easily be in the direction that would cause a strip to delaminate. 

Other than that, I thought it was very clever.

Thanks for the video...it is a clever idea for those items that you may be moving.  I also wouldn't recommend plywood but for the little items & doo-dads that he's hanging I'm sure he'll be fine.

 

[JeremyH.]

I was not familiar with the T-Jacks.  Thanks for that.
https://www.rockler.com/t-jacks-brains-over-brawn-in-cabinet-installation

The precision makes all the difference. Plus you can pull them up to position much faster.

 

[Packard]

These guys made their own cabinet jacks using pipe clamps.  Looks clever.

 

[Sparktrician]

I could not be 100% sure, but it looked like he made the cleats from plywood.  Conceptually, I am not a fan of using plywood for French cleats.  The strips are fairly narrow and plywood in narrow strips can delaminate much easier than large pieces.  Also the stresses on the cleat can easily be in the direction that would cause a strip to delaminate. 

Other than that, I thought it was very clever.

Thanks for the video...it is a clever idea for those items that you may be moving.  I also wouldn't recommend plywood but for the little items & doo-dads that he's hanging I'm sure he'll be fine.

I'm not fond of using plywood for cleats either.  I prefer solid maple, properly dried, planed and jointed (if necessary).  It seems to me that maple has superior resistance to warping, cracking and bowing.  I've also used Douglas fir, for the same reasons. 

 

[Packard]

I use poplar for carpentry trim work.  Pine is ok, but it seems to split a bit more often. 

But for spraying a nice finish, I much prefer maple.  It is slower to cut and slower to sand, but it is harder and seems to accept a smoother coat of paint.