Domino 500 at burn level temps

[Rockne]

Ok, so this is my third less-than-positive post in about a week, so I went and posted a video so you all (and Festool, when I call their attention to it) will know that I'm not just some troll.  Here's the link:

Long story short, the Domino becomes unusable after about 5 minutes, because it'll burn your skin it gets so hot. And the tool isn't just one that you can easily avoid Touching certain parts.  The video description says it all, but this is my fourth/fifth quality issue with Festool (and based on the posts in this section, my Kapex will be next to die). I haven't totalled it all up yet, but I've got well over $10,000 in Festool, and I'm one step away from filing a consumer protection complaint.

Here's part 2


EDIT> personal attack removed.

 

[Stephen B]

[size=13pt]I am not going to comment on how really hot your particular tool is, but most here including me have found that after a short period of use, things get cooler, well quite warm rather than hot. I understand this happens after the gearing meshes in.

But by all means contact Festool Service.

For further views have a look at -http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-problems/domino-500-getting-very-hot/msg458314/#msg458314

And
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-problems/domino-running-hot/msg252349/#msg252349

Where [member=191]Rick Christopherson[/member] explains in detail -
[size=10pt]
Re: Domino running hot?
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2009, 15:30:24 »
Quote
Schmart,
The drivetrain on the Domino is quite complex with a series of gears and cams controlling the compound movement of the cutter. I just went down to the shop and ran my Domino at idle for 3 minutes. Here are some things I learned:

For the first 2 minutes, there appeared to be virtually no change in temperature above ambient with any of the components, but as this approached 3 minutes, I did begin to detect an elevated temperature near the bit (I couldn't feel the bit itself until after the 3 minutes). I did not detect a significant temperature rise on any component away from the bit.

The motor cooling system draws air in from the rear and expels it just below the geartrain. This design does two things: it helps to cool the drivetrain, and it assists in dust extraction.

If memory serves me, the bit is rotating at 20,000 rpm (the motor is spinning at 25,500 rpm). Prolonged rotation at this speed is going to heat up any bearing. You should be able to identify the primary area of heating to be the forward bearing directly behind the mortising bit. If you are feeling heat that appears to be originating from any other point, then you should be more concerned.

Moving forward, I strongly recommend that you inspect and clean dust from the face of this bearing, as this can lead to abrasive wear for any type of bearing. Sawdust is the worst enemy of all power tools. Secondly, you might want to keep the duty-cycle of the machine as low as possible. If there is a delay between plunging one mortise to the other (i.e. you set the tool down to reposition something) then I would turn the Domino off. Finally, make sure the area inside the fence where the mortising bit operates remains free from impacted dust. Never operate the Domino without dust collection.

Oh, I forgot to mention that this forward bearing is the type with a flexible dust shield due to the proximity to a dust source. This type of bearing will produce more heat than one with a steel dust shield or no dust shield. The seal is necessary for the type of environment, but it does produce more friction and heat.

 

[Rockne]

Untidy, thanks for your reply.  I had read every thread on the heat from these that I could find, but I've used others' Dominos before (one for a fairly extended period) and they were barely even warm after all that time.  I get some break-in period, but I can't see 140 and up temps being normal. It's plunged about 50-60 mortises so far. That's how new it is (first time it was powered up was Friday). 

BtW, in less than 100 mortises (I'm giving myself plenty of room, there) the lower stabilizing bracket my has already cracked.  Cheap plastic.

 

[Wooden Skye]

Since you mentioned the first time you used was Friday, so I am going to assume you just bought it.  You could always take it back for an exchange.  I have never experienced a heat issue with mine where it couldn't be handled.  Hope you get the answer you are looking for, or if you exchange it, a model that doesn't get so warm.

 

[Cheese]

I've used mine outside in 90 degree weather, it never felt uncomfortable to handle and was always in direct sunlight. I'd think about chatting with Festool and getting their input. I love working outdoors in the summer in the sun...it's so nice.

 

[dltflt]

I don't think 50-60 degrees above ambient temperature is any to get to excited about.  This is a transmission after all.  My transmission in my truck after about 10 minutes driving is 190 + degrees.

 

[tjbnwi]

I have 2-500's (one pin, one paddle) and a 700. Never had a heat issue with any of them. Never grabbed them near the gear box either.

In the video I do not see excessive heat migrating to an area where you would normally hold the tool.

There have been days the Domino gets turned on at the start of the day and gets shut off at hours later. Had months where I went through 10,000 Dominos.

All of my supports are intact. Not a single issue with any of the Dominos.

Tom

 

[Rockne]

Just two questions:

1) Did you try your experiment with the vac hooked up? It's hard to tell in the FLIR video, but it does not look like the vac hose is connected. The vac helps suck out debris from the plunge cut, but I understand that it can also help cool off the bit and perhaps the surrounding metal parts as well. Might be worth a try... (EDIT - I watched the video again and it looks like the vac hose is indeed connected, perhaps you can confirm?)

2) Its again hard to see, as your FLIR video is focused on the moving parts, but down at the Plug-It end, where one typically holds the Domino during use, what was the temp reading there?

I see the temp around the moving parts is hot, and I would personally expect that. However that is not where I hold the Domino during use. Maybe your technique differs.

At any rate, I agree that a call to Festool service is in order. Maybe they can shed some light on the issue for you, and also as mentioned, if this is a new machine, maybe an exchange is in order as well.

Definitely had the ct-26 hooked up and on (with a mostly-empty bag).  I definitely don't touch the tool at the gearbox during operation, but when I'm just moving it from place to place around my work area (unplugged), I have grabbed it on the underside.  I like to leave the cross-stops in place, and I've found that supporting it from the underside (again, unplugged) is a tendency for me (it's a $1,000 tool nowadays, so I'm being very careful with it, like with a baby).

I was finishing some routing this evening, and routing about 24 ft of grooves with a 1/4 in. bit in 3/4 in Baltic birch ply, I removed it barehanded almost immediately.  It was what I call "warm".  The domino is dangerously hot.

 

[Rockne]

I don't think 50-60 degrees above ambient temperature is any to get to excited about.  This is a transmission after all.  My transmission in my truck after about 10 minutes driving is 190 + degrees.

Do you drive your car with your hand 2 inches away from your transmission?  Seems a rather silly comparison to me.  If it's SOP for the gearbox to get upwards of 140 degrees (and mine, and everyone else's experience seems to indicate that it's not), then they need to insulate the gearbox. 

 

[semenza]

I would say that mine gets hot. Especially around the metal areas. But I hold it and use it in a variety of position and have not noticed it being too hot to hold any where. I couldn't begin to guess at a temperature. It could also be that I just never noticed the heat level.  I think a call to Festool and / or a tool exchange with in the 30 day window might be in order?

Seth

 

[Rockne]

I called Festool.  The rep said 140 degrees didn't sound right and that I should return it to my vendor.  My expressions of discontent regarding the waste of my time (for the domino, the MFT/3 and the TS-55REQ) were met with deaf ears.  Don't misunderstand me, though please.  He wasn't unpleasant, he just said they have to follow Germany's way of handling these issues.  No wonder the UK voted to leave (it's a joke!)

 

[RKA]

This isn't normally a part of the machine I touch while in operation, but I went downstairs to test out of curiosity.  Ambient temps are around 70F, the machine peaked around 130-133F after 5 minutes of operation, so that seems consistent with your observations.  However, that was limited to an area near the recess where the cross hairs on your camera are pointing.  That would be below (toward the rear of the machine) that moving oscillating mechanism, not a place I would put a finger because I wouldn't want my finger getting jammed by that mechanism.  The metal just above and toward the rear of the machine was 98F and the plastic just behind that (housing) was cooler still.  My hands never stray from the plastic housing and frankly, never this far forward because it's hard to control the plunge properly (and further, the fitting for the dust extractor actually prevents me from gripping the body properly near this oscillating mechanism which makes it awkward to hold even while the machine is off).  I place my hand further back by the plug it cord and the other on the fence. 

It's possible your camera isn't giving you the same degree of resolution and the reading of 140F is actually coming from down within that recess and not the where the crosshairs are indicated in your video.  There were a couple small hot spots on the outside of that oscillating mechanism that were a little more accessible, but I didn't deem it an issue in handling either.

 

[Rockne]

This isn't normally a part of the machine I touch while in operation,  ...  I place my hand further back by the plug it cord and the other on the fence. 

I certainly don't touch it there in operation. . . it's after it's shut off and I'm moving it somewhere else that I've touched it.  And anywhere near that red-hot spot is too hot to touch (130 degrees).

But that's only one aspect of the problem.  If it were supposed to be like that, I'd probably just wear some gloves, but if it's that hot, I'm assuming that it's wearing things out inside the box quite a bit faster than it ought to.  If yours is getting that hot, you might consider calling Festool as well . . . otherwise, your domino might only last as long as a Kapex. 

 

[RKA]

While I would agree with you that temperatures can lead to excess wear, I'm far from a place where I can conclude this is beyond the operational parameters of the tool. The nature of this tool is expected to produce more heat than say...a drill. So I will continue to use the tool as it was designed to be used. You have another data point from where you can draw conclusions...whichever way they may lean.

 

[Rockne]

While I would agree with you that temperatures can lead to excess wear, I'm far from a place where I can conclude this is beyond the operational parameters of the tool. The nature of this tool is expected to produce more heat than say...a drill. So I will continue to use the tool as it was designed to be used. You have another data point from where you can draw conclusions...whichever way they may lean.

Yes, and my data point (and its directional component) is heavily, if not totally, informed by Festool telling me that 140 degrees was not normal.

 

[RKA]

I read that part and it sounded like he was unprepared to field a question like that. If you had followed with "what is the expected temperature?" And he was able to answer without pause, that's credible. Otherwise I would assume the running temperatures of most of their tools isn't an operational aspect they deal with day to day. And if a customer indicates they did or could have been injured, I would expect them to take the safer route and say send it back.

 

[Rick Christopherson]

The problem with your data is that your FLIR isn't calibrated. I'm guessing it's a cellphone attachment. You show the exhaust of your CT vac at 130 degrees, when the vac exhaust should be about 110 to 115 degrees. So when you subtract your calibration error of 15 to 20 degrees, your Domino readings are more in line with what is expected at 120 to 125 degrees.

 

[Shane Holland]

First, let me say that I have never needed to run my Domino continuously for 6+ minutes. But, I did just now to replicate the test by the OP. I did not turn it off at all.

I used a Milwaukee 2266-20 Laser Temp Gun (on sale from $119.99 to $34.99) to get the following readings. At the end, I placed my hand directly on the gear box and it was not hot to the touch at all. I could easily leave my hand there for an extended period without risk of injury.

So, for what it's worth...

0 Min - 69°
1 Min - 80°
2 Min - 88°
3 Min - 89°
4 Min - 96°
5 Min - 97°
6 Min - 100°

 

[Rockne]

The problem with your data is that your FLIR isn't calibrated. I'm guessing it's a cellphone attachment. You show the exhaust of your CT vac at 130 degrees, when the vac exhaust should be about 110 to 115 degrees. So when you subtract your calibration error of 15 to 20 degrees, your Domino readings are more in line with what is expected at 120 to 125 degrees.

Whoa, whoa, whoa!  Assume much?  Holy jumping to conclusions, Batman! The FLIR was spot on, unless the boiling water test isn't adequate. 

 

[Rockne]

Circling back to your actual, original issue - have you been able to exchange the tool for another, and if so, have the temp readings been different?
[/quote]

The replacement Domino will be here tomorrow, and I expect to be able to test it this weekend.  Highland Woodworking is unbelievable, btw.  They communicated so frequently and handled it in such a way that they are solidified as my new go-to for these types of things.