Domino 500, cutting off center

[ChuckM]

Be warned (unless they've changed the practice): If you are given a quote and reject it, they'll return the tool not necessarily in the same condition it is received/ you sent it in. I've seen photos of returned and disassembled equipment (drill or saw?) that looked like it had been cannibalized.

 

[peter halle]

If the tool is sent in and is taken apart for diagnosis and quotation of costs, the policy has been that if the work is declined and the tool is returned to the owner in a non repaired state that the tool will not be reassembled prior to return shipment.  I assume that policy is still in effect (my guess is for liability reasons) but do not know for sure.  Festool's phone number is conveniently located on a label right on the tool.  Perhaps a phone call as previously suggested would br prudent.

Peter

 

[rhoyer]

Is the 5mm bit trash? You said the other bits look brand new, have you tried them?

 

[Scoutsdad]

What I want to know is if there is a way to adjust the cut location, if so I would be inclined to send it in , if not then I would say the manufacturing of this tool is junk.

The factory and service technicians have the tools and knowledge necessary to make these adjustments.  To claim that the manufacturing of the tool itself is junk is a pretty big leap, considering how few complaints like this exist.

I would also like to know a rough estimate of the cost to adjust it back to acceptable standard, if its a simple process of alignment it should be not much but I suspect I am getting a bill for rebuild of the whole tool.

Festool Service will, in fact, repair to 'as new' quality and status when you send in a tool.  They should provide a quote before performing the service, which you can accept or decline, but they don't do it partway.

Major question time:

How accurate are the measurements of 8mm and 11mm?  Because the overall width of the mortise should only be a total of 18mm, 13mm plus the diameter of the bit.  The next-widest setting (medium) is a total of 24mm wide (19+bit diameter).

As stated it works fine otherwise , the width is perfect for a tenon, yes all settings are off center.

Have you used the width adjustment while the tool is running to make sure that it adjusts correctly?  If so, have you attempted to mill in either of the two wider settings, and were those mortises also off-center?

It sounds like something jumped a tooth internally in the gearing and/or is stuck between two settings.  This could happen if someone adjusted the width setting while the tool was turned off instead of running, which would not show any outward signs of damage from dropping.

I would assume then that this is what happened, I have trouble believing that this cant be fixed without sending it in to an expensive repair center , just sounds like they are preying on people by not allowing self fixing.
an if this is why it happened I would think more people would have this issue.

 

[ChuckM]

Snip.

It sounds like something jumped a tooth internally in the gearing and/or is stuck between two settings.  This could happen if someone adjusted the width setting while the tool was turned off instead of running, which would not show any outward signs of damage from dropping.

I've seen in a couple of official Festool videos where the Festool presenter changed the width setting while the machine was turned off, contrary to what the user manual states. To remind myself, I put a label on the machine so I don't forget.

For those who own or use both 500 & 700, they might have a tougher job to remember because for the 700, you don't change the width setting unless it's turned off.

 

[squall_line]

I would assume then that this is what happened, I have trouble believing that this cant be fixed without sending it in to an expensive repair center , just sounds like they are preying on people by not allowing self fixing.

There is nothing at all that prevents self-repair.  In fact, Festool tools are designed to be taken apart and repaired, rather than tossed in the bin because they're all glued together.

The entire exploded parts diagram is viewable online and you can order parts over the phone direct from Festool and have the parts shipped to you.  That is not "preying on people by not allowing self-fixing" by any definition of that phrase.

Without further testing of other size bits or other settings, and without anyone else on this board having physical access to your machine, everyone is doing their best to help you self-diagnose based on the limited information provided.

an if this is why it happened I would think more people would have this issue.

Almost everyone on this board with a DF 500 has had countless hours of trouble-free use from their tools.  That's why everyone has to take wild guesses as to what is wrong with your machine, as we have very limited information and no similar reports from other people on which to base a clear answer.

Nobody on this board and nobody at Festool is keeping you from taking the machine apart yourself to diagnose or fix it.  If the seller failed to disclose something, unfortunately there's nothing anyone on this board or at Festool can do about that, either.

 

[jeffinsgf]

While I am fairly careful about changing the width setting with the machine running, I have done it wrong at least a couple times and without any consequences at all.

I am a little surprised that someone would buy a second-hand tool, and then start railing against the manufacturer for faulty assembly and the cost of service. Wouldn't you first consider it a fault of the previous owner? As Squall Line pointed out, there's nothing in the world preventing you from opening up the machine and seeing what makes it tick and trying to figure out what's wrong. You have unlimited access to detailed exploded views of the parts and very reasonably priced parts shipped promptly.

 

[ChuckM]

While I am fairly careful about changing the width setting with the machine running, I have done it wrong at least a couple times and without any consequences at all.Snip.

Me, too, due to bad memory. Since I realized that I mixed up the procedure, I haven't done so anymore.

 

[luvmytoolz]

I'm wondering if it's something as simple as the threaded end the cutter screws onto is slightly bent due to misuse by the prior owner.

Does the cutter screw all the way up to the shoulder?

 

[Vtshopdog]

While I am fairly careful about changing the width setting with the machine running, I have done it wrong at least a couple times and without any consequences at all.Snip.

Me, too, due to bad memory. Since I realized that I mixed up the procedure, I haven't done so anymore.

Me too!

My machine is often perfectly happy changing when stopped if I happen to try, but usually there is noticeable resistance when turning the knob which is immediate feedback to stop right then and there. 

Guessing that being a chucklehead and forcing the knob to turn might cause issues.

 

[Vtshopdog]

I'm wondering if it's something as simple as the threaded end the cutter screws onto is slightly bent due to misuse by the prior owner.

Does the cutter screw all the way up to the shoulder?

Likely not, any bend in cutter assembly would result in symmetrical cone shape rotation at the cutter end and mortise would be both wider and taller than usual.

 

[luvmytoolz]

I'm wondering if it's something as simple as the threaded end the cutter screws onto is slightly bent due to misuse by the prior owner.

Does the cutter screw all the way up to the shoulder?

Likely not, any bend in cutter assembly would result in symmetrical cone shape rotation at the cutter end and mortise would be both wider and taller than usual.

Not if it was bent in the horizontal plane, it would directly manifest exactly as the OP has described.

The shaft being slightly bent doesn't affect the amount of travel in anyway, other than moving the centreline in this case.

 

[ChuckM]

The cutter spins and oscillates at the same time, so a horizontal bent would still change the height of the mortise. No?

 

[squall_line]

I'm wondering if it's something as simple as the threaded end the cutter screws onto is slightly bent due to misuse by the prior owner.

Does the cutter screw all the way up to the shoulder?

Likely not, any bend in cutter assembly would result in symmetrical cone shape rotation at the cutter end and mortise would be both wider and taller than usual.

Not if it was bent in the horizontal plane, it would directly manifest exactly as the OP has described.

The shaft being slightly bent doesn't affect the amount of travel in anyway, other than moving the centreline in this case.

The cutter screws onto a shaft that spins at thousands of RPM.  If the shaft was bent, the hole would elongate in both planes, not just one.

 

[Vtshopdog]

I'm wondering if it's something as simple as the threaded end the cutter screws onto is slightly bent due to misuse by the prior owner.

Does the cutter screw all the way up to the shoulder?

Likely not, any bend in cutter assembly would result in symmetrical cone shape rotation at the cutter end and mortise would be both wider and taller than usual.

Not if it was bent in the horizontal plane, it would directly manifest exactly as the OP has described.

The shaft being slightly bent doesn't affect the amount of travel in anyway, other than moving the centreline in this case.

Maybe we’re talking about different parts of the machine??
I’m referring to the rotating, oscillating cutter and threaded post mount. 

In my brain if these rotating parts are bent say 10 degrees to the left then once rotated 180 degrees the bend will now be 10 degrees to the right (or 10 degrees up or down at 90 and 270 degree rotation and so forth)
Am I missing something?

 

[usernumber1]

wait wait wait , i have never actually done this once in the years of operating the machine

pg 10
https://www.festoolusa.com/-/media/tts/fcp/festool-usa/downloads/manuals/475005_001_df500_usa_nl.pdf

Failure to follow the notes below may result in damage to the tool.
- Never force the dial to turn.
- Rotate the adjustment dial only when the motor is running.
- Never rotate the dial during a plunging operation. This can bend or break the mortising bit, and can also damage the machine.

 

[Lincoln]

wait wait wait , i have never actually done this once in the years of operating the machine

pg 10
https://www.festoolusa.com/-/media/tts/fcp/festool-usa/downloads/manuals/475005_001_df500_usa_nl.pdf

Failure to follow the notes below may result in damage to the tool.
- Never force the dial to turn.
- Rotate the adjustment dial only when the motor is running.
- Never rotate the dial during a plunging operation. This can bend or break the mortising bit, and can also damage the machine.

That's the number 1 'Don't do'.

 

[ChuckM]

Wait, wait, wait. Could this be the "sin" committed by the original owner, causing the problem reported by the op?

Never rotate the dial during a plunging operation. This can bend or break the mortising bit, and can also damage the machine.

 

[squall_line]

It's one of the "rules" in Sedge's "how to use a domino" videos, too.

In all honesty, changing the width selector while the DF-500 is off probably won't ruin it completely. 

I like to think of it like shifting a non-syncro transmission (such as in a Class 8 truck) while the engine isn't running or while the clutch brake is engaged: it might go into gear, but only if the teeth are perfectly aligned when it happens.  Changing the selector while the Domino is running is like rev-matching a non-syncro transmission.

That may or may not be the actual physical result of what is happening inside a DF-500, but it makes sense to me as an analogy.

 

[luvmytoolz]

The cutter spins and oscillates at the same time, so a horizontal bent would still change the height of the mortise. No?

Yep, I'm an idiot, your dead right!

Guess that rules out shaft misalignment if the hole isn't elongated in all planes. Maybe the assembly itself is mis-aligned off centre then?