Domino 500, cutting off center

[rst]

squall_line, on the Festool international domino demo, they switch the machine while off.  They qualify that by saying that if there is any resistance in the switch to turn on the machine and move the switch.

 

[Scoutsdad]

I would assume then that this is what happened, I have trouble believing that this cant be fixed without sending it in to an expensive repair center , just sounds like they are preying on people by not allowing self fixing.

There is nothing at all that prevents self-repair.  In fact, Festool tools are designed to be taken apart and repaired, rather than tossed in the bin because they're all glued together.

The entire exploded parts diagram is viewable online and you can order parts over the phone direct from Festool and have the parts shipped to you.  That is not "preying on people by not allowing self-fixing" by any definition of that phrase.

Without further testing of other size bits or other settings, and without anyone else on this board having physical access to your machine, everyone is doing their best to help you self-diagnose based on the limited information provided.

an if this is why it happened I would think more people would have this issue.

Almost everyone on this board with a DF 500 has had countless hours of trouble-free use from their tools.  That's why everyone has to take wild guesses as to what is wrong with your machine, as we have very limited information and no similar reports from other people on which to base a clear answer.

Nobody on this board and nobody at Festool is keeping you from taking the machine apart yourself to diagnose or fix it.  If the seller failed to disclose something, unfortunately there's nothing anyone on this board or at Festool can do about that, either.

I said in another thread I am perfectly happy sending it in for repair, but if I knew it to be easily  adjusted I would do it myself instead of the expense of the repair facility.
I am just a bit surprised that it has not been an issue from anyone here , I was hoping someone here would have said "ya that happened to me you need to do this "
it all seems odd to me that it works flawlessly otherwise , and can be used but with some limitations .
I am a bit shy to take apart as it does work and would for most cases just fine ,
I have not been able to see any parts diagram that shows much detail of assembly, only very small pictures.

 

[PaulMarcel]

If you go to FestoolUSA.com then Service / Spare Parts Catalog, you can scroll down the page to "To the Spare Parts Catalog". Clicking that gets you to the EKAT spare parts system. Select Domino Joining System then DF500 then the model you have. The spare parts are all listed and you can zoom and pan the exploded parts diagram.

This is the direct link to EKAT:

Festool USA EKAT

 

[luvmytoolz]

I haven't looked at mine yet, but does there appear to be any adjustability in the cutter mechanism under the base that allows it to be shifted in either direction?

 

[Scoutsdad]

this guy had the exact same issue
https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/...500-q-one-more-chance-before-i-get-rid-of-it/

 

[Mark Katz]

Scoutsdad, it's been 2 days since your original posting, both weekdays when Festool was open for business. Have you at least called Festool and talked to a service technician? If not, what are you waiting for? Wait a few more days and they'll be closed for the weekend.

I'm sure they have more knowledge of the internals of the DF500 then anyone else here. Maybe they've seen the problem before and know how to fix it. If it's something you can fix yourself, they will guide you through it. But first you have to ask.

 

[usernumber1]

what a world we live in. guy is angry at the other owners because he's the only one with some weird issue.
I'm not convinced at the troubleshooting ability either /  i don't see any effort demonstrated.

I would measure the inside holes are at an equal angle. largest cutter, deepest setting

[attachimg=1]
If the angles are not the same then the cutter is favoring one side or your fence is not perpendicular.

I would confirm the machine cuts equal amounts left and right off some reasonable reference.
For example: measure A and B

[attachimg=2]

Then I would cut a hole using the paddles from left, then another hole from right. compare the numbers. A should be same in both measurements and A should be same as B in both cases

[attachimg=3]

EDIT: got the A and B reversed here.

If you have issues here, then the bit is not swinging same amounts left and right or the frame is off somehow
If this is all good then your little window is really off or some technique issue

EDIT 2: i see most of you have already suggested all this. sorry for the repeat

 

[Vtshopdog]

Umm, I don’t think above drawings are correct if referring to the actual cut mortise.

The sides of a Domino mortise will be parallel to one another and the back face of the hole will be a mild arc with a radius equal to distance from pivot point of oscillating mechanism to tip of the cutter.

 

[usernumber1]

sorry you're correct. i drew it wrong. the bad ones will have an arc at the top angled

 

[Scoutsdad]

Scoutsdad, it's been 2 days since your original posting, both weekdays when Festool was open for business. Have you at least called Festool and talked to a service technician? If not, what are you waiting for? Wait a few more days and they'll be closed for the weekend.

I'm sure they have more knowledge of the internals of the DF500 then anyone else here. Maybe they've seen the problem before and know how to fix it. If it's something you can fix yourself, they will guide you through it. But first you have to ask.

I called twice actually , to the USA and the Canada numbers , both told me nothing other than to send it in , nothing I could adjust , also not possible to give me any idea as to the cost or even given a shop rate for repair. hence why I feel its a bit shady of an operation.

 

[Scoutsdad]

what a world we live in. guy is angry at the other owners because he's the only one with some weird issue.
I'm not convinced at the troubleshooting ability either /  i don't see any effort demonstrated.

I would measure the inside holes are at an equal angle. largest cutter, deepest setting

[attachimg=1]
If the angles are not the same then the cutter is favoring one side or your fence is not perpendicular.

I would confirm the machine cuts equal amounts left and right off some reasonable reference.
For example: measure A and B

[attachimg=2]

Then I would cut a hole using the paddles from left, then another hole from right. compare the numbers. A should be same in both measurements and A should be same as B in both cases

[attachimg=3]

EDIT: got the A and B reversed here.

If you have issues here, then the bit is not swinging same amounts left and right or the frame is off somehow
If this is all good then your little window is really off or some technique issue

EDIT 2: i see most of you have already suggested all this. sorry for the repeat

I am not sure why you think I am angry at members here at all, or even Festool, I do feel the service is a bit shady as they wont discus what could be wrong with me over the phone. ( I feel they don't want me to try and fix it, only to send it in, and wont give me any details on the cost associated). If I go to my mechanic I get an upfront $/hr rate or, $ for oil change, $ for tire swap , ect. I can't see why this could not be done ie $ for diagnostic and then it would be parts and labor to fix.

also from your diagram the measurements  my machine is off from  a and b , and as stated it works as its supposed to otherwise, I have gone through the machine a fair bit, I do not think you understand how the machine works , the only angle would be at the bottom of the cut, where it would be a sweeping arc , the sides even if off would not be angled at all as it cuts all while plunging .
What I was hoping to hear from the group is someone who had the same issue and was able to adjust the mechanism easily. I am fine with sending it in but as stated before it seems like an easy fix just not easy to see with the machine closed up, also it is usable as is but not as best as it should be.  There was no way of telling this was off before I bought it, without using it extensively, it also looked new in box other than the 5mm cutter being used lightly.
I think its a great tool, I think its weird that there is no obvious way to adjust this, it cant simply be perfect out of manufacturing or there would be no way for it to get askew anyway. 

 

[Mark Katz]

Sorry I was a bit harsh about calling Festool - if you mentioned that you had, I must have missed it.

If you watch enough of Sedge's videos you will notice that he always mentions various notches and markings that precisely line up with the center of the bit. To me this indicates that the body casting and internal parts are machined to tight tolerances and are designed to fit together precisely. That's one reason why the Domino costs more than a run-of-the-mill biscuit joiner (ignoring the Festool tax for a moment). If the machine had numerous adjustments to bring it into alignment, then this board and YouTube would be filled with posts about correcting a maladjusted model.

Getting back to your issue. To me it seems like one way this might occur is that the front of the machine (that has the paddles and the opening for the bit) is not square to the direction of the plunging motion of the bit. Since the base is a casting, I would be more suspicious of the rods that guide the rear section while plunging.

If you have a dial or digital caliper, use the depth gauge function on the end to measure the depth at each end of the mortise. If the depth at the more off-center end of the mortise is more than at the less off-center end, then that would confirm my suspicion of off-square plunging. Use the extra-wide setting of the domino to exaggerate the difference as much as possible for this test.

If that is indeed the reason for your issue, I can't see any way that you could fix this yourself. Something is probably bent inside the machine. If so, it really does seem like this machine has undergone some shock, like from a fall.

 

[bobtskutter]

May I suggest the OP posts some pictures of the domino machine.  It may be obvious what's wrong if we had some pictures of the machine.
Regards
Bob

 

[afish]

I have never had this problem but a quick look at the EKAT page it looks like part 76 has some gears on the bottom (and) top that index the oscillating part #65 that would be where I start. assuming this is out of warranty I dont see the harm doing a little investing if you want to try otherwise best to just send it in. Festool service has always been a good experience for me.

 

[squall_line]

I am not sure why you think I am angry at members here at all, or even Festool, I do feel the service is a bit shady as they wont discus what could be wrong with me over the phone. ( I feel they don't want me to try and fix it, only to send it in, and wont give me any details on the cost associated). If I go to my mechanic I get an upfront $/hr rate or, $ for oil change, $ for tire swap , ect. I can't see why this could not be done ie $ for diagnostic and then it would be parts and labor to fix.

Automotive repair and tool repair are completely different beasts.

Many shops charge shop time rates rather than hourly rates, unless they think an hourly rate will be what makes them more money on a job.

Festool literally has no idea what is wrong with your tool until they receive it and open it up.  And they will restore it to as-new condition, which means replacing worn out internal parts that neither they nor you would have any idea are worn until they open the tool.  That could take 15 minutes, or it could take 3 hours.  And I doubt that they charge an hourly rate, as their primary business is NOT repairing tools.  You can probably find a tool repair specialist who would be happy to quote an hourly rate, but they may have no experience with Festool products.

The issue you are describing is NOT a common issue, otherwise it wouldn't have taken a lengthy search on this site to find one single other person who posted about this issue 4 1/2 - 5 years ago.  Therefore neither Festool nor anyone on this board would have a clue what a repair could cost.

You find Festool's demurring shady, I find it typical of a small company whose primary business is something other than tool repair.

I would plan on 50% of the price of the tool new as a good starting point to estimate the repair cost.  If your fence uses pins instead of paddles, add the price of a new fence as well, as they will not ship the tool back with a pinned fence; it's part of their settlement agreement over the patent claim on that fence style. you may receive a 'paddle' style fence in return if it has issues that are specific to the pin mechanisms, as most of those parts are no longer available.

 

[ChuckM]

Snip.If your fence uses pins instead of paddles, add the price of a new fence as well, as they will not ship the tool back with a pinned fence; it's part of their settlement agreement over the patent claim on that fence style.

This is the first time I heard that Festool won't return a DF500 with the pinned fence. If that's really the case, Festool should let such owner know before initiating the return for repair process.

 

[squall_line]

Snip.If your fence uses pins instead of paddles, add the price of a new fence as well, as they will not ship the tool back with a pinned fence; it's part of their settlement agreement over the patent claim on that fence style.

This is the first time I heard that Festool won't return a DF500 with the pinned fence. If that's really the case, Festool should let such owner know before initiating the return for repair process.

This is was my own assumption based on knowing many people who used to have pinned fences that received paddled fences back instead.  I don't recall if they were charged for them or not, so that part is pure speculation.  I would honestly hope that they wouldn't be charged for it, as the tool is pretty much useless without a fence, but it's good to include as a rough estimate.

I also had to add that caveat because we have never seen a picture or gotten any more detail that tells whether this is a 10+ year old model or a brand new one.

 

[usernumber1]

if the measurements A and B are different after plunging the machine is plunging at an angle. I'm glad such a setting is not adjustable that would be a nightmare to align

 

[peter halle]

Snip.If your fence uses pins instead of paddles, add the price of a new fence as well, as they will not ship the tool back with a pinned fence; it's part of their settlement agreement over the patent claim on that fence style.

This is the first time I heard that Festool won't return a DF500 with the pinned fence. If that's really the case, Festool should let such owner know before initiating the return for repair process.

This is my own assumption based on knowing many people who used to have pinned fences that received paddled fences back instead.  I don't recall if they were charged for them or not, so that part is pure speculation.  I would honestly hope that they wouldn't be charged for it, as the tool is pretty much useless without a fence, but it's good to include as a rough estimate.

I also had to add that caveat because we have never seen a picture or gotten any more detail that tells whether this is a 10+ year old model or a brand new one.

LET ME STOP THE SPECULATION

I just got off the phone with Festool USA service.  I spoke with the Service Manager.  If a Domino having the pin type fence is sent in for service the old style fence WILL be sent back.  HOWEVER, there are about four or five parts on that style fence that are no longer available, so if there is an issue with the fence and one of those parts is part of the needed repair, then they can not repair the fence.

Peter Halle - Moderator

 

[ChuckM]

Thanks for the clarification.