Domino 700 or Jessem router Table

[ReneS]

I am getting ready to upgrade part of my shop and had been thinking that a better router table would be the most useful. (I currently have a Bosch router table that is okay, but nothing great.)

But my biggest motivation is to be able to cut larger mortises, such as for tables and beds. The other thing I use the router table for is to make molding, and that works fairly decently.

It occurred to me that for the price of a better Jessem table with lift and fence, etc. I could get a domino 700. In fact, the 700 might be cheaper.

I was wondering whether anyone here has any thoughts that they could share. Would I be better off with a high quality router table? Or would the Domino 700 be better? 

By the way, my disposable income goes pretty much exclusively into wood working, so this is where I spend. Also, having made a variety of jigs and also having used some very nice tools, I am definitely not going to build anything. My plan is to buy a well designed and made tool.

Re jigs and what not, I have used routers and table saws, and made a variety of jigs to cut mortises and tenons. I consider it an important part of my development, but that is not where I want to put my time and energy. I am looking for accuracy, speed, and efficiency with this next upgrade.

Also, I recently bought the Festool 6 inch sander and hooked it up to a Makita dust extractor. That really opened my eyes to what great tools can do for you and how they can make working a lot more enjoyable. I also have the Festool Domino 500, but it didn't wow me the way the sander did.

Sorry if that was a bit too much disorganized blather.

Thanks,

Rene

 

[HighlandMarine]

I’m going to stir the soup even more… Why not get a Shaper Origin?

 

[luvmytoolz]

I would put a router table as a generally higher priority for most woodworkers, definitely over a 700. It's a many trick pony that allows you to easily do a multitude of machining types that help substitute for many different tools.

I'd also say a good heavy cast iron table is the best way to go for a router table.

 

[ReneS]

At this point I am thinking about the Domino 700 and a OF 1400 router. One of the issues I have with my current router table is setting stops for long pieces, such as when routing a groove for the back of a cabinet or routing mortises in table legs. The OF 1400 on a guide rail will address some of that and the Domino 700 will address the mortises.

My main uses of my router table have been making molding, finishing off the ends of the grooves in stiles for panels (after running the stiles through a table saw), and routing mortises. I am not sure what else I might use it for.

So I guess that is what I am asking. Are there other operations I am not thinking about that can be done most efficiently on a precise and accurate router table?

 

[luvmytoolz]

Cast iron router tables are insanely easy to machine grooves or shapes into using standard router bits, so creating guide holes or grooves for attaching longer guides or rails is really simple. I did this with my table, and used it for edging and planing boards, grooving, cutting slots for long biscuits, etc.

Where it really shines for me of late though is template work, I couldn't do without it now. When I first started work I always maintained that if you could only have one power tool, it would be a router hands down as you can more or less replicate almost anything with a router that other tools would usually be used for.

I love my Domino's but they're very application specific, they spend way more time in the case than used, a router table is always ready to go for any job though. But it's horses for courses, my needs may not be same as yours or others.

 

[smorgasbord]

The DF700 is a one trick pony, but it’s a heck of a trick. No better way to cut mortises for large loose tenons, especially in big pieces like in your example of a bed.

But cheaper options, like good doweling jigs are available. Not quite as efficient, but for home shops often more than good enough.

Large routers in large router tables with good fences are, as others have pointed out, quite versatile. But not so great for 7 foot long 8/4 pieces as you’d find in a bed.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

If you make large tables, doors, or beds, the DF700 will increase your speed/efficiency tremendously.
However, if you don't do that for a living, the cost might be hard to justify.
Although I really like Festool routers, I wouldn't waste one under a router table. First of all, they don't work with router lifts, since the motor is not removable. Beyond that, plunge routers are just a pain, in a router table, unless they are designed for it. My choice for table use is Triton. The simplicity of operation is built right into it. Above the table, one wrench bit changes and super easy height adjustment, make it great.

You could easily cut the mortices, of large table legs, with a OF1400 and an edge guide. The tenons, especially for the long rails, are a different matter.  You could use the same router/edge guide and cut mortices there too, then make your own loose tenons. You could also make tenons with a router and jig.

It basically comes down to speed vs money, which sounds a bit silly coming from a guy with such a large selection of Festool equipment, but that is my point exactly. I use them in a large commercial cabinet shop. That whole list/mess of stuff and even I don't have a DF700, but that's not my focus.
For the few occasions, where it would be useful, I work around it. Getting one probably will happen, it's just not a priority.

Bottom line, I think I would save the money and see what needs occur next.

 

[Kev]

"Both" is the obvious answer .. sorry!

Now on the 700, you need to consider the versatility of the CKD components if you're talking beds and tables ..  well I suppose specifically beds as I feel as they're not the sort of thing you'll you'll fully assemble in the workshop.

Over recent years I've seen the popularity of the Domino grow in furniture making videos and it's hard to argue against its efficiency and benefit. It's the sort of thing that becomes your "go to method" over time and leaves you questioning how you worked without it. Of course you'll find loads of people telling you about their "domino killer" jigs and how the Domino is a waste of money.

On the router table side, I'm personally running a OF2020 in a CMS OF module with a CMS extension connected to an MFT/3. I have a custom base plate for an Incra LS Positioner supporting the Incra Wonder Fence and some would see this as a pretty sweet setup .. able to swap between the standard CMS OF fence and the Incra fence in seconds. In reality it's still a router stuck upside down under a table trying to be a spindle moulder - one day when I have the space (and need) I will simply get a REAL spindle moulder

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

As many others have already suggested, a Domino is a one trick pony, whereas a router table is tremendously versatile.

If it were me, I would get the Jessem Ultimate Excell II (in MM, of course!), and supplement it with the Jessem Dowelling jig for loose tenon joinery work.

Prior to acquiring my horizontal mortiser, I used the Jessem doweling jig for joinery projects where my DF-700 wasn't well suited. Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, I can't really remember the last time I used my DF-700, as I've mostly shifted to dowels for loose tenon joinery.

The DF-700 is a great tool, but there are many other methods to produce a similar result, whereas a router table is incredibly versatile.

 

[ReneS]

Thank you everyone for the thoughtful replies. You've given me more to think about.

Once I realized that it was fairly easy to make mortise and tenon joints with my router table and table saw, I built a couple of tables, a couple of free standing cabinets, and a bed. One of the things that I wrestled with was getting the mortises all in the same location on the various pieces (for example, the table legs). Using a stop helped, but the mortises were still a challenge when they weren't centered on the leg.

The Domino 700 would greatly simplify this. So for me the question is how many more tables and beds will I make. I definitely want to make another bed, as the one I made was a prototype/proof of concept. While it is functional and appears sturdy so far, it has some esthetic issues with the proportions of the pieces. (I forgot how thick modern mattresses are, well at least compared to the ones I remember sleeping on as a kid.)

Well, half the fun is the research and the hunt.

 

[woodferret]

DF700.  Shaper Origin cut depth is too shallow and you'd be doing some sketchy bit changes to get the required mortise depth.  The next best is a hand held 1/2 collet router that can push close to 3" plunge.  Not all do.  The DF700 is still less janky doing horizontal mortises in long boards than a heavy handheld router.
While doable, it gets old fast and has a higher chance of mess-up.

 

[Jim_in_PA]

I bought the DF700 specifically for doing larger/heavier joinery for furniture a number of years ago. (I only recently acquired the DF500 "barely used" for smaller work) I have a nice, cast iron router table, too. For M&T, the DF700 is a great tool, both for normal Dominos and for cutting precise mortises for wider, loose tenons if that's what's right for a particular project. I do not consider a normal router table to be a mortising solution, personally, although it's great for creating tenons. If you really want to get fancy around that, consider the PantoRouter.

 

[Cheese]

One of the things that I wrestled with was getting the mortises all in the same location on the various pieces (for example, the table legs). Using a stop helped, but the mortises were still a challenge when they weren't centered on the leg.

Well this situation is exactly where the "one trick pony" DF 700 shines. Mortises on both mating parts whether on center, offset or at an angle, it just doesn't get easier.

The router table is more versatile but the DF 700 is easier & faster for the use you describe.

 

[tsmi243]

I would also add that making a shop-built router table that competes with a factory made one, isn't hard.  So if it's just a financial decision, go with the Domino.  You can't DIY a DF700.

If you don't have time to build your own router table, then it's a different question, and only you can answer it.

Speaking of router tables, it's almost better to build 2-3 quick and dirty ones, for specific tasks, than to have a single one that tries to do everything.  That new mini clamp-on table from TSO, for example, will be much handier for chamfers/roundovers than wheeling out the beast and changing bits when you need to.  And if you omit the features you don't need for just chamfering, it's really just a square piece of scrap with a hole in the middle.  No fence, no slots needed for edge bits.  So just build your own next time you have half an hour free. 

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I would also add that making a shop-built router table that competes with a factory made one, isn't hard.  So if it's just a financial decision, go with the Domino.  You can't DIY a DF700.

If you don't have time to build your own router table, then it's a different question, and only you can answer it.

Speaking of router tables, it's almost better to build 2-3 quick and dirty ones, for specific tasks, than to have a single one that tries to do everything.  That new mini clamp-on table from TSO, for example, will be much handier for chamfers/roundovers than wheeling out the beast and changing bits when you need to.  And if you omit the features you don't need for just chamfering, it's really just a square piece of scrap with a hole in the middle.  No fence, no slots needed for edge bits.  So just build your own next time you have half an hour free.

Exactly. I have mine built into one end of the 4' x 8' cutting table. It was just one, for a while, then I added a second later. I keep a flush trim bit in one, for simple separation and clean-up of onion-skinned CNC pieces. The other has a big bit to do rabbets. Both are capable of using a fence, I don't need it on the flush trim side.

I have considered the TSO one for a small trimmer type router.

 

[ChuckM]

Pluses:

1) It occurred to me that for the price of a better Jessem table with lift and fence, etc. I could get a domino 700. In fact, the 700 might be cheaper.

2) By the way, my disposable income goes pretty much exclusively into wood working, so this is where I spend.

3) I am looking for accuracy, speed, and efficiency with this next upgrade.

Minus:

1) I also have the Festool Domino 500, but it didn't wow me the way the sander did.

So, the DF700 is a natural choice for you.

The Domino Joiner, especially the DF500, isn't a one-trick pony as some may suggest. The trick is to research (aka Google) and explore how others have used it in applications that are not covered in the user manual (and there're many). For example, the manual doesn't tell you that you can use the Joiner as a spline slot cutting machine:

[attachimg=1]

 

[Kev]

I feel the urge to mention that many people dismiss the Lamello Zeta P2 as just a biscuit joiner. Similarly the Domino with the CKD components ... not to mention as ChuckS points out in using it creatively.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I feel the urge to mention that many people dismiss the Lamello Zeta P2 as just a biscuit joiner. Similarly the Domino with the CKD components ... not to mention as ChuckS points out in using it creatively.

Those people are clearly missing a gem. In combination with a DF500, it is a great set-up. I use them often, especially in situations where it is hard to clamp. The Clamex version can pull a joint that is aligned with Dominos, with a much smaller wrench opening. The Tenso version is totally blind, but cannot pull quite as hard. They are great in a joint where the Dominos are glued.

 

[ReneS]

In case anyone researching the Domino system reads this thread, I wanted to clarify that the Domino 500 is a great tool, and after doing mortise and tenons a variety of ways, I love how fast and accurate it is.

My comment that it didn't wow me the way the sander did is that I was not expecting the sander to be as good as it is. Between the fast and smooth sanding and the dust extraction, I was amazed how much better it was than my DeWalt ROS. And it is much more comfortable to use to boot.

 

[ReneS]

So I just pulled the trigger on the basic DF 700 kit along with a 10mm cutter and some 10mm and 12mm domino tenons.

I was tempted by the limited edition that Festool is offering right now, but the extras didn't fit my needs. Same with the 12/14 pack of cutters and tenons. Too expensive and not enough of what I need.

Thanks for all the replies. They helped me out with this decision. I think this is going to help a lot with the freestanding cabinets I'm going to make.