Domino .. accuracy in sheet goods ??
- Thread starter art stratemeyer
- Start date
I'm going to add this to my review and I'm trying to come up with a simple way of stating it.
When referencing off the fence if you intend on putting the mortise in the exact center of your work piece and the thickness of your work piece is 20mm (0.787") or less, your set it up must elevate the piece off the work surface or hang it off the edge of the work surface so that there is no possibility if interference between the Domino base and the work surface.
And then maybe a couple of pics showing each setup
When referencing off the fence if you intend on putting the mortise in the exact center of your work piece and the thickness of your work piece is 20mm (0.787") or less, your set it up must elevate the piece off the work surface or hang it off the edge of the work surface so that there is no possibility if interference between the Domino base and the work surface.
And then maybe a couple of pics showing each setup
Dave Ronyak
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- Jan 23, 2007
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- 2,234
Referencing the base of the Domino machine relative to the top surfaces of your work pieces to be joined will also work extremely well. Put the work pieces with their finish side down tight against your MFT or any other flat reference surface and your tenons will be centered 10 mm above your reference surface. Good enough for most 3/4" to 1" thick parts to be joined. Domino fence adjustment doesn't come into play when used this way. When joined, the surfaces that were placed down against your reference surface should be flush or certainly well within a fingernail of being flush. My thanks to Rick Christopherson for including this tip in his draft user manual!
Dave,
That will work but for me anyway, there's more to go wrong. You have to make sure there is nothing on your work surface, no glue, no shavings etc, so that the piece lays flat. Ahh, flat, the piece cant have a bow in it and must be clamped perfectly flat. Just a lot of things to go wrong and it has been a problem for me in the past, even with my biscuit joiner. I find using the fence to be more repeatably accurate for me.
That being said there is no reason to put the mortise exactly in the center either and in fact I usually don't divide the thickness by two, I position the mortise on the next closest step stop when I can and I always clamp the board so it overhangs the MFT.
That will work but for me anyway, there's more to go wrong. You have to make sure there is nothing on your work surface, no glue, no shavings etc, so that the piece lays flat. Ahh, flat, the piece cant have a bow in it and must be clamped perfectly flat. Just a lot of things to go wrong and it has been a problem for me in the past, even with my biscuit joiner. I find using the fence to be more repeatably accurate for me.
That being said there is no reason to put the mortise exactly in the center either and in fact I usually don't divide the thickness by two, I position the mortise on the next closest step stop when I can and I always clamp the board so it overhangs the MFT.
I have the same problem with the fence not being at 90 degree. It took a bunch of tests before I finally determind that this was the problem. I was almost to the point of boxing this tool up and returning before I realized the fence was not accurate. What size tool do I need to adjust the pointer? I'm not at home right now so I can't look at the screw.
art stratemeyer
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- Joined
- Feb 13, 2007
- Messages
- 29
Hi Gang,
Just back from delivering some commissions out of state and have a bit of time for myself in the shop so I'm going to spend some time addressing this issue ( I'm glad to see someone else has seen the issue ..http://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=679.0 )
For all tools like this in the shop, I write up a "procedure sheet" so that everyone is doing a given operation the same way. Much like bisquit machines, my "standard" is that when doing edge to edge joints, all referencing will be done off the fence and NOT off the bottom of the machine and the workbench area. With several people in a work area, it is just too hard to be sure that the bench is totally clean, free of glue bumps and also it takes out the potential issue of any warpage in the material causing it to raise up above the bench.
My plans are to try this with ply, mdf and solids to see what happens. I'm going to check the perpendicularity of the fence but other than causing a possible gap along a joint, a 86 deg fence should have the top surfaces mate at the same level as a 90 deg fence.
I'll post my results later in the week.
Just back from delivering some commissions out of state and have a bit of time for myself in the shop so I'm going to spend some time addressing this issue ( I'm glad to see someone else has seen the issue ..http://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=679.0 )
For all tools like this in the shop, I write up a "procedure sheet" so that everyone is doing a given operation the same way. Much like bisquit machines, my "standard" is that when doing edge to edge joints, all referencing will be done off the fence and NOT off the bottom of the machine and the workbench area. With several people in a work area, it is just too hard to be sure that the bench is totally clean, free of glue bumps and also it takes out the potential issue of any warpage in the material causing it to raise up above the bench.
My plans are to try this with ply, mdf and solids to see what happens. I'm going to check the perpendicularity of the fence but other than causing a possible gap along a joint, a 86 deg fence should have the top surfaces mate at the same level as a 90 deg fence.
I'll post my results later in the week.
Doug Anders
Member
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2007
- Messages
- 29
Art,
this is still an issue for me...I'll watch how you handle it and see if I can "fix" my problems with your experiences...
this is still an issue for me...I'll watch how you handle it and see if I can "fix" my problems with your experiences...
Brice Burrell
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- Joined
- Mar 13, 2007
- Messages
- 7,385
One more thing to look out for, it sounds dumb, but....
You can not have the base flat on the work piece.
The round rubber gripper pads on the face can provide ample friction to hold the Domino at a slight angle.
You can not have the base flat on the work piece.
The round rubber gripper pads on the face can provide ample friction to hold the Domino at a slight angle.
Alan Turner
Member
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2007
- Messages
- 2
I had this issue at first as well. What I discovered is that the fence does not have a good detent for the 90 degree setting, but the stop is accurate. So, when setting the fence at 90 degrees, instead of just moving the fence to 90. I press the fence upward, and then tighten it, and since I have been doing this, I have had perfect registration off of the top face of the stock. NO big deal; you just have to remember to do it.
art stratemeyer
Member
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2007
- Messages
- 29
Ok gang,
Here's what I found ...
Again ... using the fence face for reference ... NOT the base.
I used 3' long pieces of pre-finished ply, mdf, melamine and some solid walnut. Each was ripped and the two pieces edge joined. So each piece came from the same board/sheet to take that variable out.
One "tight" mortise and 3 equally spaced "wider" mortises on each edge
On the walnut and the mdf pieces got good joints ( almost no missmatch ) but on the pre-finished ply and the melamine ... at the joint one face was higher than the other in a range of 0.3 to 0.45 mm ( about the thickness of a fingernail). Needless to say this would never be acceptable.
Even though I knew that perpendicularity of the fence would not cause this, I took the machine and found the fence to be out about 1 deg from 90. Made the needed adjustments and did the same test. The results were the same as above ... good joint on mdf and walnut .. bad joint on pre-finished ply and melamine.
Ok to take out "operator" error I made some cuts where I actually clamped the fence to the surface of the pre-finished ply piece and made the plunge cut. THAT resulted in almost ( unmeasurable whisker mis-match ) perfect joint.
This was now driving me nuts ... what's causing this. When I looked at the surface of pre-finished ply I found a strange pattern of 3 U shaped "indents" where the fence was clamped. I looked at the fence face itself and found this issue !!!
If you look at the bottom of the fence you will see 3 U shaped cutouts for the handle, and on the sides where the fence attaches. There I found that there was a slight burr around each of these cutouts.
I burnished these areas and now found great joints in all 4 test pieces.
Summary .. I "think" what happed was that, depending on the pressure exerted on the fence, these burrs would either sink into to the surface or at other times would cause the fence to sit a tad "proud" of the surface.
I'm not sure how many here have commercial shops but if interested .. the following is part of the procedure sheet that I will have for this tool. I do these sheets for all tools and all people in the shop have to refer to them before using the tool.
- material to be clamped to a stable surface and set to have an overhang that allows the fence of the Domino to rest on the face with no interferance with the base.
- Insure that firm downward pressure is made on the handle of the fence
- When plunging in to make the mortise, push straight and take care not to raise or lower the hand that is pushing the unit. This avoids making mortises that can be slightly mis-aligned.
Here's what I found ...
Again ... using the fence face for reference ... NOT the base.
I used 3' long pieces of pre-finished ply, mdf, melamine and some solid walnut. Each was ripped and the two pieces edge joined. So each piece came from the same board/sheet to take that variable out.
One "tight" mortise and 3 equally spaced "wider" mortises on each edge
On the walnut and the mdf pieces got good joints ( almost no missmatch ) but on the pre-finished ply and the melamine ... at the joint one face was higher than the other in a range of 0.3 to 0.45 mm ( about the thickness of a fingernail). Needless to say this would never be acceptable.
Even though I knew that perpendicularity of the fence would not cause this, I took the machine and found the fence to be out about 1 deg from 90. Made the needed adjustments and did the same test. The results were the same as above ... good joint on mdf and walnut .. bad joint on pre-finished ply and melamine.
Ok to take out "operator" error I made some cuts where I actually clamped the fence to the surface of the pre-finished ply piece and made the plunge cut. THAT resulted in almost ( unmeasurable whisker mis-match ) perfect joint.
This was now driving me nuts ... what's causing this. When I looked at the surface of pre-finished ply I found a strange pattern of 3 U shaped "indents" where the fence was clamped. I looked at the fence face itself and found this issue !!!
If you look at the bottom of the fence you will see 3 U shaped cutouts for the handle, and on the sides where the fence attaches. There I found that there was a slight burr around each of these cutouts.
I burnished these areas and now found great joints in all 4 test pieces.
Summary .. I "think" what happed was that, depending on the pressure exerted on the fence, these burrs would either sink into to the surface or at other times would cause the fence to sit a tad "proud" of the surface.
I'm not sure how many here have commercial shops but if interested .. the following is part of the procedure sheet that I will have for this tool. I do these sheets for all tools and all people in the shop have to refer to them before using the tool.
- material to be clamped to a stable surface and set to have an overhang that allows the fence of the Domino to rest on the face with no interferance with the base.
- Insure that firm downward pressure is made on the handle of the fence
- When plunging in to make the mortise, push straight and take care not to raise or lower the hand that is pushing the unit. This avoids making mortises that can be slightly mis-aligned.
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