Domino add-ons

[live4ever]

I've ordered my Domino 500 and looking forward to putting it through its paces on a project with well over 150 loose tenon joints.

I've been reading about the various Domino add-ons...specifically Ron's Domiplate as well as RTS' MSG and SCG guides.  I'm not sure if I'm understanding the correct application of each - here is my rudimentary understanding:

Domiplate - easier and more stable than stock fence for 3/4" and 1/2" ply.  Is that the only use for it?  Does it work with regular (actual) 3/4" or 1/2" stock?

MSG - multiple stops, up to 6 pairs, adjustable across entire plate.  You have to set them yourself.  Useful if you have multiple commonly used mortise distances in a project or across projects, eg. cabinets.

SCG - one pair of stops that are self-centering and adjustable across entire plate.

Is this correct?  Which ones do you use/recommend as must-haves and what is your most common application where they are indispensable?  Any others?

 

[Rembo]

You forgot to add INCRA.

 

[live4ever]

Not to worry Rembo, I have plenty of Incra.    Of course, that does not buy me your creativity or craftmanship.

You should release plans of your Domino jig. 

 

[Rembo]

Yes, I do not quite understand the question))
but the response of the mill DOMINO. so this add-on ..  [smile]

 

[Kev]

I picked up the RTS SCG yesterday. Haven't used it, but I'm very impressed with the quality. It's perfect for getting a domino slot centred on a rail ... the flip one lug you're working with the same offset on another piece of stock.

 

[williaty]

To me, the nicest thing about the SCG isn't that it self centers on stock. It's that the two guides are always equally distant from center of the mortise. That's a semantic difference, yes, but if you keep it in your head that way, you'll find all sorts of shortcut uses for it that have nothing to do with putting the mortise in the center and everything to do with keeping reference surfaces lined up flush.

 

[Kev]

To me, the nicest thing about the SCG isn't that it self centers on stock. It's that the two guides are always equally distant from center of the mortise. That's a semantic difference, yes, but if you keep it in your head that way, you'll find all sorts of shortcut uses for it that have nothing to do with putting the mortise in the center and everything to do with keeping reference surfaces lined up flush.

You're playing with my head ... I must be thick, but can you give me an example of what you mean please? (Although it may come to me later ... it's been a long, long, long, hard day)

 

[williaty]

OK, let's take the example of connecting both ends of a table apron to the leg on either end of it. We want the top of the apron flush to the top of the leg and, in this thought experiment, the face of the apron flush with the face of the leg. Further suppose that we want the center of the Domino mortise 30mm down from the top edge (why we're only using one domino, who knows, but that's what we're doing :lol.

So, adjust the SCG so that one paddle is 30mm away from the center of the mortise. Since you're adjusting one, the other one magically adjusts itself to the exact same distance. Because the paddles mirror each other automatically, it doesn't really matter if you hit 30mm, 29.5mm, or 30.4mm, they'll all magically line up because we have two stops equidistant from center. Flip the fence "flat" into the normal position to plunge into the end of the work with the fence set to put the mortise in the center of the apron stock (thin dimension center, that is).

Place the fence flat on the face of the leg. Using one of the paddles on the SCG, reference off the top of the leg. The other paddle on the SCG will just flip up out of the way. Plunge the mortise. Switch which paddle is up/down on the SCG, take the Domino and go to the apron stock. Place the fence flat on the reference face of the apron stock. Place the paddle of the SCG against the top edge of the apron stock. Plunge the mortise. Repeat this process at the other end of the apron stock. You now have table side that's got everything lined up flush, square, and even without any layout or measuring.

Because both paddles on the SCG are always the same distance from the center of the mortise, it no longer matters which paddle you use as a reference. So long as the fence is on your reference face and a paddle is on the reference edge, both halves of your mortise will line up. Of course, this is exactly the same way the paddles on the fence, the stops on the Cross Stop, the fences on the Trim Stop, and the stops on the MGS all work, but the advantage of the SCG is that the guide itself takes care of making sure you have both sides set perfectly, which is what ensures a perfect line up to the joint.

Now, obviously you can also use it for centering in the stock!

 

[Kev]

OK, let's take the example of connecting both ends of a table apron to the leg on either end of it. We want the top of the apron flush to the top of the leg and, in this thought experiment, the face of the apron flush with the face of the leg. Further suppose that we want the center of the Domino mortise 30mm down from the top edge (why we're only using one domino, who knows, but that's what we're doing :lol.

So, adjust the SCG so that one paddle is 30mm away from the center of the mortise. Since you're adjusting one, the other one magically adjusts itself to the exact same distance. Because the paddles mirror each other automatically, it doesn't really matter if you hit 30mm, 29.5mm, or 30.4mm, they'll all magically line up because we have two stops equidistant from center. Flip the fence "flat" into the normal position to plunge into the end of the work with the fence set to put the mortise in the center of the apron stock (thin dimension center, that is).

Place the fence flat on the face of the leg. Using one of the paddles on the SCG, reference off the top of the leg. The other paddle on the SCG will just flip up out of the way. Plunge the mortise. Switch which paddle is up/down on the SCG, take the Domino and go to the apron stock. Place the fence flat on the reference face of the apron stock. Place the paddle of the SCG against the top edge of the apron stock. Plunge the mortise. Repeat this process at the other end of the apron stock. You now have table side that's got everything lined up flush, square, and even without any layout or measuring.

Because both paddles on the SCG are always the same distance from the center of the mortise, it no longer matters which paddle you use as a reference. So long as the fence is on your reference face and a paddle is on the reference edge, both halves of your mortise will line up. Of course, this is exactly the same way the paddles on the fence, the stops on the Cross Stop, the fences on the Trim Stop, and the stops on the MGS all work, but the advantage of the SCG is that the guide itself takes care of making sure you have both sides set perfectly, which is what ensures a perfect line up to the joint.

Now, obviously you can also use it for centering in the stock!

Of Course ... and here brain drained stupid me wasn't even thinking that the SCG's paddles move independently ... DOH!!!

thanks

Kev.

 

[Rick Christopherson]

To me, the nicest thing about the SCG isn't that it self centers on stock.

My apologies for not noticing this thread when it was started. Looks like you guys already handled all the questions without me.  [cool]

The term "self-centering" was never intended to mean putting the mortise in the center of the stock. Granted, I suppose that's the way most people use it. It was really meant that the two stop arms are automatically centered about the mortise location on the Domino. I actually try to de-emphasize centering in the stock just so users realize that it can be used for much more.

http://www.dominoguide.com/

 

[PaulMarcel]

Ick, maybe you can rename it the You-Can-Self-Center-But-Why Guide.

I rarely use it to center.  Showed it in the review video, but emphasized the benefits at assembly time of offset mortises; offset mortises make it harder to accidentally assemble a piece in the wrong orientation without it being glaringly obvious.

 

[Rick Christopherson]

I don't know, Paul-Marcel. I kind of like your idea of calling it "Floyd" better.  [big grin] I love your sense of humor in your videos!!!

I've been thinking about it a lot this morning after reading this thread, and I am beginning to realize that I'm an idiot for trying to de-emphasize a feature that many people consider to be a strong-suit. Instead of de-emphasizing how easy it is to center a mortise on a workpiece by using the workpiece to space the stop arms, I should just put more emphasis on how the guide does a lot more than that.

Regards,
Ick

(It takes 1 typo, and I'm "Ick" for life! hehehe Maybe that should be my new signature line.)

 

[rmwarren]

Instead of de-emphasizing how easy it is to center a mortise on a workpiece by using the workpiece to space the stop arms, I should just put more emphasis on how the guide does a lot more than that.

I would second that motion. I have the MSG (inherited when I purchased my gently used Domino) and had never really used it. I gave it a try this weekend and I really struggled with getting the paddles centered by eyeing the lines. Kept ending up about .5mm off-center and I did not want to use the oversized slot on one side. I finally gave up (I only needed 2 dominoes) and pocket-holed the joint.

I had been drooling over the SCG whenever I leafed thru the latest Rockler catalog but had thought "heck, I already have one that is just not as fancy, why do I need this one...?"

Question answered.  [big grin]

The paddles are also a little finicky to get straight, I doubt I will use it much unless I need to do a bunch of repetitious pieces. The SCG I could envision using for a few slots totally because of the self-centering feature.

Just  [2cents].

RMW

 

[Rick Christopherson]

RMW, it sounds like you didn't get a manual with your inherited MGS-20 or 30 guide. You can download a pdf copy here...MGS-20/30 Manual. In the manual you will see a very simple and super accurate way to set your stop positions. Here is a quick recap:

Take two small boards and line up one edge, and then scribe a line across them both. If you need an offset between different stop positions, draw a second line that distance away from the first line. (I have 2 lines in the picture below.)

Then, take each of those boards, turn them over (pencil line facing the Domino fence) and clamp them to your Domino fence with the pencil line on the center line of your sight gauge. Now you can set the position of your right or left stop by butting it up against the block of wood. Repeat that for the opposite stop. The manual describes this in better detail, but this should give you the quick idea.

At first glance, many people think the SCG-10 guide is a replacement for the MGS-20 guide, but that is not the case. They both serve slightly different purposes. A rather high percentage of new customers actually take advantage of the Combo-kit I created on my website to buy both models at a reduced price.

P.S. If you didn't get a manual for your guide, you probably also didn't get a manual for your Domino either. If so, you can download my Domino Supplemental Manual

 

[jacko9]

Live4ever Your question

"Domiplate - easier and more stable than stock fence for 3/4" and 1/2" ply.  Is that the only use for it?  Does it work with regular (actual) 3/4" or 1/2" stock?"

Yes, I use it with thin solid wood stock panels in frame and panel construction of small cabinets.  I find that the 1/2" side of the Domiplate is much easier to locate tenons in thin stock.

 

[rmwarren]

RMW, it sounds like you didn't get a manual with your inherited MGS-20 or 30 guide. You can download a pdf copy here...MGS-20/30 Manual. In the manual you will see a very simple and super accurate way to set your stop positions. Here is a quick recap:

Take two small boards and line up one edge, and then scribe a line across them both. If you need an offset between different stop positions, draw a second line that distance away from the first line. (I have 2 lines in the picture below.)

Then, take each of those boards, turn them over (pencil line facing the Domino fence) and clamp them to your Domino fence with the pencil line on the center line of your sight gauge. Now you can set the position of your right or left stop by butting it up against the block of wood. Repeat that for the opposite stop. The manual describes this in better detail, but this should give you the quick idea.

At first glance, many people think the SCG-10 guide is a replacement for the MGS-20 guide, but that is not the case. They both serve slightly different purposes. A rather high percentage of new customers actually take advantage of the Combo-kit I created on my website to buy both models at a reduced price.

P.S. If you didn't get a manual for your guide, you probably also didn't get a manual for your Domino either. If so, you can download my Domino Supplemental Manual

Rick, you assume 2 things:

1.  Had I received the manual that I would have not immediately misplaced it in the frenzy to start making chips with a new tool, and;
2.  Even if I had retained the manual that I would have EVER looked at it.

Now, having figgered out that I actually need to pay attention to these details to obtain a desirable result, I will take your sage advise and not only download the manuals but also study them.  [doh]

Thank you.  [big grin]

RMW

 

[Rick Christopherson]

Rick, you assume 2 things:

1.  Had I received the manual that I would have not immediately misplaced it in the frenzy to start making chips with a new tool, and;
2.  Even if I had retained the manual that I would have EVER looked at it.

Yup! I'm no different. When I get a new product, I'll skim through the manual in about 30 second before it goes in a drawer or the trash. If something catches my eye--it's the drawer. If not--it's the trash.  [scared]

The manuals that I write are a bit of a different story. People actually go looking for them. There have been nearly 40,000 downloads from my Festool Manual page since I installed a hit counter last year or the year before. That doesn't even count how many downloads have been made direct from the Festool website.

 

[PaulMarcel]

I think there's a reason people toss the manuals immediately.  Just today, I was flipping through a tool manual.  It goes far beyond horrible.  I was looking for a specific answer then decided to just read it for the humor that a company (non-green...) actually considers this a useful end to a tree's life.

There was a safety section that starts: "You must always be careful when using power circular saw."

Shall I point out this was a manual for a jointer/planer?

So not to sound like a suck-up, but thanks for the real manuals, Ick.

 

[williaty]

I think there's a reason people toss the manuals immediately.  Just today, I was flipping through a tool manual.  It goes far beyond horrible.  I was looking for a specific answer then decided to just read it for the humor that a company (non-green...) actually considers this a useful end to a tree's life.

What amazes me is that, as bad as user manuals are, service manuals are often worse! I own an independent Subaru-specialty shop. Mostly I build race cars and repair the street cars of guys who know me through my performance work. When I started this, I was really annoyed at how bad Subaru's repair manuals were. Skipped steps, useless diagrams, critical errors in fastener torques, etc. However, since then I've been exposed to a Dodge service manual and a Toyota/Scion service manual via taking care of my parents' cars. HOLY CRAP! One of them just lists the bolts to give a torque. In Engrish. How am I supposed to know what the "Back upper lower stop bolt" is? The other one lists engine removal as "Step 1: Once the all electrical, cable, and fuel connections to the engine have been disconnected...". I can't believe how good the Subaru manuals are in comparison.

So, yes, manuals have a deserved reputation for not being worth your time. However, it's also usually the only place to learn how to use the tool. Often, they're actually more useful to me pre-purchase to lean about the tools features rather than post-purchase to learn about how to use the features. I agree, when you run across actually literate technical documentation like Ick's, it's a relief.

 

[williaty]

Also, a thanks to both Ick and Paul as I find the SCG very useful and it was Paul's video that convinced me to buy it and gave me ideas about how to make it really useful to me.