Domino DF500 Accuracy/Alignment Issues

[ChuckM]

Any Festool machines on display are not the same as brand new machines because they're on display for both staff to demo and customers to try out (under staff guidance or supervision). Some display units could be for years in the showroom depending on what they're.

  This is incorrect. In our store, we only have singles of some models. They are never used for demo purposes, ever. If any employee uses a display tool for demo, he or she has bought it and we make that known. We do have demo models of most of the tools we sell.

Terminology difference only: On display in my post = Demo models in your post. At my local vendor, all new stock is kept in the back/warehouse; anything on display (not counting pre-packed items like jawsaw blades, sandpaper, etc.) is for demo, etc. Whether it's the Kapex or XL (all unplugged), customers can handle them.

 

[Bugsysiegals]

Wow, I figured if in the box it was new, good to know.  I'm headed back up to the original store where they have 2 available ... I'll check it out to confirm it doesn't appear used, and hopefully it will cut as flush as the current replacement did ...

Bring some ply with you and check it out in person.

Unfortunately I hadn't seen this before I was already on my way.  I've Domino #3 home but need to cut some fresh boards as I used up the previous stock.  I'm running low on 3/4" Maple cutoffs, prefer not to break down a brand new sheet, and wonder if 3/4" MDF would be an acceptable stock to test with or not?

 

[Bugsysiegals]

Any Festool machines on display are not the same as brand new machines because they're on display for both staff to demo and customers to try out (under staff guidance or supervision). Some display units could be for years in the showroom depending on what they're.

  This is incorrect. In our store, we only have singles of some models. They are never used for demo purposes, ever. If any employee uses a display tool for demo, he or she has bought it and we make that known. We do have demo models of most of the tools we sell. Further, I suspect that there is something in the dealer contract with Festool USA, or other national Festool operations to prevent selling a tool that has ever been used. If a dealer sells a used tool as new, the customer should contact Festool directly. One other thing, some tools that don't sell often can sit on the shelf for a long time. If you look at the nameplate with the serial number etc. you can find the month and year of manufacture. Also, you can look at the systainer label to insure it matches the tool serial number.

This is interesting ... the new Domino says (11) 200331 ... has this really been on the shelf since 2003?  This would mean it has the fence locking issue?

 

[Cheese]

I think this display/demo thing is really store dependent. The bare tools on display at the local Woodcraft store are used both as store display models and also as functioning demo tools for customers and store employees. On more than one occasion a store tool was being demoed in the back shop area and a new version of the same tool was then opened up and used for comparison purposes, I have no idea why as I was was on the other side of the glass wall. So what happened to that new model tool that was just demoed? Don't know...

Last year Woodcraft was selling some of their demo tools. An absolutely spotless OF 1400 in a T-Loc and a pretty ratty OF 1010 in an original Systainer...how many years ago were original Systainers used by Festool?

 

[Bugsysiegals]

I've done 5 different tests with Domino #3 and am averaging about 0.04mm difference between each side of joined panels whereas Domino #2 averaged about 0.02mm.  While the difference is double Domino #2, it seems small enough that I can sand smooth without burning through the veneer.  Have you all measured the difference and would you agree 0.04mm is acceptable?

Finally, I believe I read about a fence drift/sagging issue which was addressed with some changes ... based on the sticker, was this made in 2003 meaning it's possible I'll be going through more misalignment issues in the future?

 

[Cheese]

.04 mm is equal to  .0015”, tough to get any better/repeatable results with any hand held tool.  [smile]

Most already applied veneers are around .012”-.015” thick.

 

[grbmds]

I do notice extremely minor imperfections at the points that the joints meet, but these can be eliminated during clamping and only result in minor sanding sometimes. In general, I have always believed that, to some degree, these occur because of imperfections in the wood and due to some slight, unnoticeable movements of the tool by me during cutting of the slots. Nothing is perfect,  but the results you're getting are extremely close and might even get better over time as you gain some experience with the tool.

I have never bought a tool from the Woodcraft store I most often do business with in Madison, Wisconsin which showed any evidence of being used in anyway. That, and the fact that they have always given me good advice and help when I needed it, are the reasons I continue to buy my Festools from them, as well as most of my woodworking supplies and other tools. Nothing can be great service, knowledgeable staff, and being able to see the tool in advance of buying if desired. That describes the Madison Woodcraft Store.

 

[Bugsysiegals]

.04 mm is equal to  .0015”, tough to get any better/repeatable results with any hand held tool.  [smile]

Most already applied veneers are around .012”-.015” thick.

Average thickness of standard copy paper is 0.05 to 0.10mm or 0.002 to 0.004" so I'm off by the thickness of the thinnest copy paper.  According to your #'s, the veneer is at minimum about 6 pieces of the thinnest copy paper so I'd agree I have plenty of room to spare if I can keep this consistency and the fence doesn't drift or sag on me.

 

[Bugsysiegals]

I do notice extremely minor imperfections at the points that the joints meet, but these can be eliminated during clamping and only result in minor sanding sometimes. In general, I have always believed that, to some degree, these occur because of imperfections in the wood and due to some slight, unnoticeable movements of the tool by me during cutting of the slots. Nothing is perfect,  but the results you're getting are extremely close and might even get better over time as you gain some experience with the tool.

I have never bought a tool from the Woodcraft store I most often do business with in Madison, Wisconsin which showed any evidence of being used in anyway. That, and the fact that they have always given me good advice and help when I needed it, are the reasons I continue to buy my Festools from them, as well as most of my woodworking supplies and other tools. Nothing can be great service, knowledgeable staff, and being able to see the tool in advance of buying if desired. That describes the Madison Woodcraft Store.

We've a Woodcraft in New Berlin/Milwaukee just 35 minutes from me.  FWIW - the people at the store I was at said they don't have time for me to bring wood/domino's and demo the tool with them and that they'd just replace it as many times as it takes.  I guess this is good for the customer, no questions asked, but not that great for Festool and I'm surprised they wouldn't be trained and have you demo it so you're not stock piling the FestoolRecon site.

 

[jcrowe1950]

This is interesting ... the new Domino says (11) 200331 ... has this really been on the shelf since 2003?  This would mean it has the fence locking issue?

  Sorry for the delay in responding....I don't have access to this group at work. The format of the date is european format....first two digits are the year, second two digits are the month and third are the day. So, March 31, 2020.....

 

[jcrowe1950]

I think this display/demo thing is really store dependent. The bare tools on display at the local Woodcraft store are used both as store display models and also as functioning demo tools for customers and store employees. On more than one occasion a store tool was being demoed in the back shop area and a new version of the same tool was then opened up and used for comparison purposes, I have no idea why as I was was on the other side of the glass wall. So what happened to that new model tool that was just demoed? Don't know...

Last year Woodcraft was selling some of their demo tools. An absolutely spotless OF 1400 in a T-Loc and a pretty ratty OF 1010 in an original Systainer...how many years ago were original Systainers used by Festool?

Hi Cheese,

    You are, of course, correct. Our Woodcraft franchise policy is as I stated. Others may differ. In fact, while I can't remember which Canadian dealer it is, there is one that has a ton of MFTs with various tools on each MFT for demo purposes. I only wish we had the space and resources to dedicate to such an approach.

    That said, no Festool should be sold as new if it's ever been used. That is one reason that, for instance, returned tools during the thirty day window are sent directly back to Festool where they are probably refurbed and sold on the refurb site.

    Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[ChuckM]

Others may differ. In fact, while I can't remember which Canadian dealer it is, there is one that has a ton of MFTs with various tools on each MFT for demo purposes.

Lee Valley Tools is definitely one of them. Both corded and cordless tools are on display for customers to handle. For safety, except the drills, tools are unplugged until staff set them up for power.

 

[Bugsysiegals]

This is interesting ... the new Domino says (11) 200331 ... has this really been on the shelf since 2003?  This would mean it has the fence locking issue?

  Sorry for the delay in responding....I don't have access to this group at work. The format of the date is european format....first two digits are the year, second two digits are the month and third are the day. So, March 31, 2020.....

Perfect, it seems I finally have a Domino that I can be happy with!  Looking forward to trying out some butt joints now and getting things calibrated.

 

[Bugsysiegals]

I've swapped the alignment pins in the 3 possible configurations.  Replacing the Right pin seems to bring the lines slightly closer than stock.  Replacing both pins brings them even a bit closer and replacing the Left pin may be the same as both but with the line on the opposite side ... is there a way to get them closer without replacing the Left pin and slowly filing a little off the stock Right pin?

Stock
View attachment 1

Right Pin Only Replaced
View attachment 4

Both Pins Replaced
View attachment 3

Left Pin Only Replaced
View attachment 2

 

[Bohdan]

Are the pins symetrical? i.e. see if swaping the Left with the Right makes a difference.

 

[Bugsysiegals]

The pins look like you could possible push the mounting pin through and use them on an opposite side, and I considered trying this but wasn’t sure and didn’t want to break it. Can anybody confirm if they work in this way?  It’s a shame but maybe these aren’t meant to be that accurate?

 

[grbmds]

If it were me, I'd just keep returning then until you get one that performs to your satisfaction. The Domino is a great tool but only if it performs as it is supposed to. I guess I feel lucky I have never had the problems with Festool or the places I've bought the tools from that you are experiencing. Maybe it just is a sign that Festool's quality control has slipped over the years. I haven't bought one for at least 2 years so I can't tell about present quality. Good luck.

 

[Bugsysiegals]

If it were me, I'd just keep returning then until you get one that performs to your satisfaction. The Domino is a great tool but only if it performs as it is supposed to. I guess I feel lucky I have never had the problems with Festool or the places I've bought the tools from that you are experiencing. Maybe it just is a sign that Festool's quality control has slipped over the years. I haven't bought one for at least 2 years so I can't tell about present quality. Good luck.

Do your paddles actually align better than mine and do you use the paddles?  I assumed they'd be useful for quick corner joints on shorter lengths since you can avoid laying out lines but in reality maybe their seldom used?

 

[Birdhunter]

I don’t trust the locators on either my 500 or 700. Just not accurate unless I’m doing narrow/wide mortises. The pins on my Mafell Doweler are dead nuts accurate.

 

[BarneyD]

I've also never used the paddles. In fact, I keep mine locked in the retracted position so they're not in the way. I just make lines.