Domino DF500 Accuracy/Alignment Issues

[grbmds]

If it were me, I'd just keep returning then until you get one that performs to your satisfaction. The Domino is a great tool but only if it performs as it is supposed to. I guess I feel lucky I have never had the problems with Festool or the places I've bought the tools from that you are experiencing. Maybe it just is a sign that Festool's quality control has slipped over the years. I haven't bought one for at least 2 years so I can't tell about present quality. Good luck.

Do your paddles actually align better than mine and do you use the paddles?  I assumed they'd be useful for quick corner joints on shorter lengths since you can avoid laying out lines but in reality maybe their seldom used?

The only time I use the paddles is if I want Dominos the same distance from each edge of a board. If I’m putting more than 2 Dominos then I usually mark the internal slots and may use the paddles for the two outermost slots. I’m unsure how you are using them but, if it’s to locate a slot on both boards the same distance from an edge on each, I don’t understand how that could be misaligned. I do find that I mostly just put the boards together, mark the locations on both, and cut the slots. As for side to side alignment I many times cut 1 slot with the small width and the others with the mid-size slot to allow some adjustment. However, I have cut all the slots the same size and usually get great results. Don’t know if that helps.

 

[Bugsysiegals]

If it were me, I'd just keep returning then until you get one that performs to your satisfaction. The Domino is a great tool but only if it performs as it is supposed to. I guess I feel lucky I have never had the problems with Festool or the places I've bought the tools from that you are experiencing. Maybe it just is a sign that Festool's quality control has slipped over the years. I haven't bought one for at least 2 years so I can't tell about present quality. Good luck.

Do your paddles actually align better than mine and do you use the paddles?  I assumed they'd be useful for quick corner joints on shorter lengths since you can avoid laying out lines but in reality maybe their seldom used?

The only time I use the paddles is if I want Dominos the same distance from each edge of a board. If I’m putting more than 2 Dominos then I usually mark the internal slots and may use the paddles for the two outermost slots. I’m unsure how you are using them but, if it’s to locate a slot on both boards the same distance from an edge on each, I don’t understand how that could be misaligned. I do find that I mostly just put the boards together, mark the locations on both, and cut the slots. As for side to side alignment I many times cut 1 slot with the small width and the others with the mid-size slot to allow some adjustment. However, I have cut all the slots the same size and usually get great results. Don’t know if that helps.

The results I've shared are with me aligning the edges, drawing a line, and joining with one single Domino on narrow setting.  The misalignment comes when you have a difference in distance between the edge of the mortise and the pin on either side.  This is why the replacement/calibration pins are slightly thinner as to allow the mortise to be offset more on one side and bring the line into alignment.

 

[ChuckM]

Calibrate the paddles by following the steps shown in the manual until they offer the desired (perfect?) results. I've used paddles since Day 1 the machine was brought home.

Unless you can eyeball and align the machine with pencil lines every time when using the narrow setting on both mating mortises (I can't, my success rates vary around 50% to 60%), calibrated paddles give you built-in repeatability and accuracy.

Of course, you don't need to use the narrow setting for every mating mortise. When you do as in the case of doing shelf/partition joints (where the show edges must meet flush), the paddles excel -- without failure.

 

[Bugsysiegals]

Calibrate the paddles by following the steps shown in the manual until they offer the desired (perfect?) results. I've used paddles since Day 1 the machine was brought home.

Unless you can eyeball and align the machine with pencil lines every time when using the narrow setting on both mating mortises (I can't, my success rates vary around 50% to 60%), calibrated paddles give you built-in repeatability and accuracy.

Of course, you don't need to use the narrow setting for every mating mortise. When you do as in the case of doing shelf/partition joints (where the show edges must meet flush), the paddles excel -- without failure.

I followed the instructions of removing the set screw, flipping the paddle upwards, removing it, installing the replacement which has thinner paddle, pushing it back down, and re-installing the set screw.  I did this on the Left pin only, Right pin only, and both pins replaced, which are the photo's I've taken.  I'll run through it again just to double check there wasn't some tear-out fiber which got in between the paddle and edge.  Is there some recommended way of sliding the Domino up to the edge for consistency?

 

[darita]

Haven't read thru all the replies, so I'm sure this has already been mentioned...I had my Domino for a short time and thought I knew what I was doing.  All of a sudden, like you, I couldn't get the faces of boards flush to one another.  I finally realized that the boards I was machining were slightly thinner than the distance from the Domino fence face to the table top I was using.  This caused the fence to be raised up very slightly off the workpiece face, resulting in the misalignment of the faces.
Once I realized this, I put a piece of stock under the workpiece, raising it off the table top, allowing the fence face to sit flush on the face of the workpiece.  All was good after that.

 

[Bugsysiegals]

Haven't read thru all the replies, so I'm sure this has already been mentioned...I had my Domino for a short time and thought I knew what I was doing.  All of a sudden, like you, I couldn't get the faces of boards flush to one another.  I finally realized that the boards I was machining were slightly thinner than the distance from the Domino fence face to the table top I was using.  This caused the fence to be raised up very slightly off the workpiece face, resulting in the misalignment of the faces.
Once I realized this, I put a piece of stock under the workpiece, raising it off the table top, allowing the fence face to sit flush on the face of the workpiece.  All was good after that.

Yep, I've the edge having over the edge of the MFT/3 so I'm referencing with the Domino fence rather than base but thanks for pointing it out.  The horizontal alignment is only off by about the thickness of a piece of copy paper which is totally fine but now the paddles/alignment pins do not align even after swapping out the other paddles in the package for calibration ... hoping to be able to double check today.

 

[jcrowe1950]

Yep, I've the edge having over the edge of the MFT/3 so I'm referencing with the Domino fence rather than base but thanks for pointing it out.  The horizontal alignment is only off by about the thickness of a piece of copy paper which is totally fine but now the paddles/alignment pins do not align even after swapping out the other paddles in the package for calibration ... hoping to be able to double check today.

Hey Bugsy,

    One other thing I wanted to mention. What was your plunge speed? When I was learning from the Festool folks, I was told a slow, steady plunge works best. Here's the theory behind this and as a longtime router user, it immediately made sense. The Domino is essentially a waggling router. When it waggles one way it's a regular cut but when it waggles the other way it becomes a climb cut. A climb cut will push the work away from the cutter. In any case, if you are suffering from loose tenons, (sounds like a drug commercial) try counting to eight for your plunges. My experience was that getting that chop down developed a bit of muscle memory such that I can now tell by the feel of the cutter in the material if I'm going too fast. Also, the typical overly fast plunge will result in a tombstone cut on the top of the mortise. Not sure if this helps, but keep up the good work....

 

[Bugsysiegals]

Hey [member=39505]jcrowe1950[/member], yes my plunge speed is about 8 seconds as you'll see in the video.  I definitely don't push hard and fast as I don't want the climb cut or for the bit to nut cut fast enough and the tool to deflect and come out of parallel with the fence.  I'm really looking forward to making some cabinets/bookshelves with the Domino and hope I can sort out the side to side alignment with the pins as it could really speed things up on shorter pieces...

 

[jcrowe1950]

Hey [member=39505]jcrowe1950[/member], yes my plunge speed is about 8 seconds as you'll see in the video.  I definitely don't push hard and fast as I don't want the climb cut or for the bit to nut cut fast enough and the tool to deflect and come out of parallel with the fence.  I'm really looking forward to making some cabinets/bookshelves with the Domino and hope I can sort out the side to side alignment with the pins as it could really speed things up on shorter pieces...

Hey Bugsy, et al,

    Not to revive this thread but last night I discovered a glitch with my D500 and remembered Sedge talking about the fix. I was dominoing fronts/backs of drawers to the sides. I began to notice during dry fit that the edges were not flush and I had been very careful in my process. Then I checked my setting on the fence with my setup blocks and, indeed, they had drifted off by enough to irritate me. What I did was to reset fence height locking lever to make it tighter. You do this by taking out the small phillips screw, removing the lever from the splined shaft and rotating it a little counter clockwise before replacing it. Then you replace the screw and away you go....this may have nothing to do with your issue but it did solve mine.

 

[ChuckM]

I fixed mine from Day 1 when the factory setting wasn't quite right (the lever went beyond the fence when tightened). Luckily, as a newbie, I tracked down what to do in the manual.

 

[Bugsysiegals]

Hey [member=39505]jcrowe1950[/member], yes my plunge speed is about 8 seconds as you'll see in the video.  I definitely don't push hard and fast as I don't want the climb cut or for the bit to nut cut fast enough and the tool to deflect and come out of parallel with the fence.  I'm really looking forward to making some cabinets/bookshelves with the Domino and hope I can sort out the side to side alignment with the pins as it could really speed things up on shorter pieces...

Hey Bugsy, et al,

    Not to revive this thread but last night I discovered a glitch with my D500 and remembered Sedge talking about the fix. I was dominoing fronts/backs of drawers to the sides. I began to notice during dry fit that the edges were not flush and I had been very careful in my process. Then I checked my setting on the fence with my setup blocks and, indeed, they had drifted off by enough to irritate me. What I did was to reset fence height locking lever to make it tighter. You do this by taking out the small phillips screw, removing the lever from the splined shaft and rotating it a little counter clockwise before replacing it. Then you replace the screw and away you go....this may have nothing to do with your issue but it did solve mine.

Hi, thanks for the suggestion. Thankfully all the Domino’s have come with the knobs adjusted so they’re fairly tight by the time they reach the bottom. I know what you mean about adjusting the knobs as I’ve done this on the quick clamps for the guide rails to get them fro being to lose or to tough to put on.

The current Domino doesn’t have fence drift but rather the paddles don’t create a joint in which the edges are flush, even after swapping paddles.

The previous Domino made perfect joints, couldn’t even feel any lip, but the body was missing the mortise width markings and seemed to have been dropped as the fence with stiff and scratchy feeling. I’m probably going to return again and hope the next one will remain with at least as good of face flush ness, only a paper thickness difference, but fix the paddles so edges are flush enough to at least clamp without marring the wood.

 

[Bugsysiegals]

If I didn't mention it already, I ended up returning my 3rd DF 500 because the paddles couldn't be calibrated and was almost ready to throw in the towel completely but decided to try again ... 

My 4th DF 500 ... the paddles worked exactly as expected, the cursor is only a hair off, the fence wasn't calibrated and left pieces slightly bowed but I re-calibrated 90 degrees and resolved, the height of each side of the fence from the base when set to 90 is within 0.05mm of each other, and the pieces are able to be joined with a max error of 0.10mm or 0.004" in about 10 tests.

When I join the pieces of wood together, if I stop assembling them just before they touch, I can see the pieces aren't parallel which when fully assembled has the max error mentioned above.  I then tested with a CCW pressure on the handle while plunging/releasing which actually counteracted the tilted mortise resulting in joints which were precisely flush, 0.001", and 0.002" difference!  While I don't like it, I think the worse case alignment is acceptable, but can likely be improved as I learn how to better use this CCW plunging technique ... I'd say I finally have a winner!! 

I'm really excited about this because my first shop cabinet which I'd used pocket holes on made me want to give up on the idea of kitchen cabinets.  I've panels which are not aligned as well as I'd like, panels which are aligned but took extra work to position and clamp before fastening, and some where the screw tip started protruding every so slightly ... I believe the domino's are going to really make this process so much easier, more enjoyable, and produce a cabinet I can be proud of!

 

[ChuckM]

I admire your persistence. I give up easily if a brand new machine or tool doesn't perform or deliver after a second try. I would quickly look for another brand or solution if there's such a comparable option. Of course, there's none when it comes to the domino joiner (for me, a biscuit joiner or a doweller is not a comparable alternative).

 

[Bugsysiegals]

Well if there would've been a retailer around here with Mafell I probably would have went to have a look but at least with the 30 day money back guarantee you don't have to get stuck with a tool that doesn't perform to your liking ... assuming you test it straight away.

 

[afish]

Give timberwolf a call and explain your Domino issues and see if they are willing to work with you if your not happy with the DDF40 or what the return policy is.  I think you will like it.  It requires extra care and precision since there is no wide setting.  I had to sand my paddles on my Domino to get the joints to align.  I tried every combo of paddle and couldn't get the joints flush.  The sanding trick works awesome.  Mine is dead on now.  I do notice a slight angle of the domino but its so small it doesn't affect how I use it.  The Mafell is better in almost every way in my opinion.