Domino Face Mortising Jig - Any Interest?

smorgasbord

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I built this jig to help me locate domino mortises in the face of a big plywood panel. This was for my Murphy Bed, which has a headboard that is located kind of arbitrarily in the side panel (sometimes at an angle) and for me was a U-shaped assembly (Headboard itself plus a top shelf and bottom piece) with mortises in the end grain of the headboard pieces, so locating precisely in the side panel was important.
[attachimg=1]

The top shelf of the headboard was narrower than the Domino machines, so I didn't have marks on the side closest to the back vertical edge, making alignment difficult. Here's an example:
[attachimg=4]
And even sighting from the side is tough, with parallax error opportunities:
[attachimg=5]

In addition, the markings on the side of the Domino showing distance of centerline from the base (10mm for DF500, 15mm for my DF700) are pretty thick and I found not completely accurate (for me the bottom of the wide mark was the centerline, not the center of the mark).

Here's the jig I came up with:
[attachimg=2]

It's basically a piece of 5mm thick polycarbonate with centerline markings everywhere (top, bottom, sides) and some additional pieces glued onto it to hold the Domino itself in place. Here are some shots of the jig located:

[attachimg=3]

The jig was great for those mortises close to the edge:
[attachimg=6]
(Yes, that's after the mortise was cut)

Even at the top end there's an alignment line on the jig:
[attachimg=7]

And I made the jig to accommodate the TSO Big Foot:
[attachimg=8]
[attachimg=9]

The Big Foot needs a spacer to be at the same 5mm off as the jig, but that's not a problem, there are even tapped holes in the big foot:
[attachimg=10]

And finally, the mortise:
[attachimg=11]

If I had made the jig bigger, I could have clamped it to the side panel all aligned and then simply place the Domino machine into it and cut. You do have to remember to cut 5mm deeper than you want due to the thickness of the jig's base, but that's easy. And even on the DF500, cutting a face mortise 23mm deep is often more than plenty (will go through ¾" plywood and then some).

For my Murphy Bed, I cut the mortises in the ends of the assembled headboard unit first, leaving the alignment center lines alone (they're behind the headboard so not visible in the final product. I then laid the side panel face up, located the headboard standing on its edges and drew in the centerline and the base line, which is the edge of the headboard panels where they meet the side. I drew those on blue tape. Then I measured 9mm in from the base line (which was the fence setting I used to cut the edge mortises) to get the centerline of the needed mortise. This 9mm offset line and the usual domino center lines were extended and are what I used to align the jig against.

Now, this would have been a bit simpler with a DF500, in that I could have used the standard 10mm offset for both the edge mortises in the headboard itself (with a Seneca 0" Offset plate or similar) and then go to align the base of the Domino for the face mortises, but I'd still have the problem of the Domino base hanging off the edge with no good way to align it there.

And with this clear jig, you get to see where the mortise is going to go, so if you took a second to draw it in, you'd have confidence that's where it's going. This was important to me because I messed one up, luckily during a test pass.

Anyway, I'm happy with this jig and expect to use it again some day. Some friends of mine were over and after admiring my Murphy Bed we went in the shop and talked about building it. One of them thought this jig is something I should make (using a CNC instead of hand building) and perhaps offer as a product for other woodworkers. I'm not sure my face mortising challenges are something others have run into, but here I am, asking. You could, of course, build this for yourself as I did, but sometimes it's easier and more accurate to buy an accurately machined jig.

Thoughts?
 

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smorgasbord said:
Snip.

Now, this would have been a bit simpler with a DF500, in that I could have used the standard 10mm offset for both the edge mortises in the headboard itself (with a Seneca 0" Offset plate or similar) and then go to align the base of the Domino for the face mortises, but I'd still have the problem of the Domino base hanging off the edge with no good way to align it there.Snip.

On the few occasions where the workpieces were too small for me to align the DF500 with the intersecting placement lines in the usual manner, I used spacers to extend the lines:

[attachimg=1]

The milled flats on the DF500 provide the exact center point of the cutter for alignment purposes:

[attachimg=2]
 

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[member=77266]smorgasbord[/member] – thank you for sharing details of your VERY nicely made jig!

Your efforts make me wonder if you considered  or were even aware of the detailed dimensioned drawings TSO provides for a truly simple and easier to make “DOMINO Face mortising Jig” on the “SUPPORT” Tab of our website:
     
         https://tsoproducts.com/support/

The additional features designed and machined into the Version 2 of the DBF-45 BigFoot are designed to make it very easy to construct a simpler jig enabling the user to place the DOMINO machine easily and accurately on the face of the workpiece.
Anrimation explaining the Jig on the TSO product page:
     
         https://tsoproducts.com/jigs-fixtures-guides/dbf-45-bigfoot-v2-0-base-system-for-festool-domino/

Look up the detailed information we provide if face mortising is on your project list. Let us know how to make this infomration more conspicuous.

Hans
 
[member=59331]TSO Products[/member]  Hans, is this “DOMINO Face mortising Jig” perhaps under a different name? I don’t see this.
 
[member=297]Michael Kellough[/member]:

TSO website:  Support
Below, you will find user manuals, assembly guides, and drawings for TSO products. Should you have any questions on your product or the materials below, we're here to help! Please contact us.

DBF-45 v2.0 Bigfoot Base for Festool Domino DF 500 & DF 700 XL
How to Make the Auxiliary Fence for Domino DF 500 (696-041 Rev. A)
How to Make the Auxiliary Fence for Domino DF 700 XL (696-042 Rev. A)
Dimension Drawing for DBF-45 v2.0 BigFoot Base (696-047 Rev. A)
Dimension Drawing for DF 500 Auxiliary Fence (696-051 Rev. A)
Dimension Drawing for DF 700 XL Auxiliary Fence (696-052 Rev. A)
 
[member=59331]TSO Products[/member] sorry to be a pest Hans but the list illustrates why I asked. Which of the 6 documents, none of which say “DOMINO Face mortising jig” is most appropriate for the subject?
 
You need the files for the auxiliary fence. One is the plan for making one. The other is a drawing with the exact dimensions. Which 2 you need depends on whether you have the 500 or the 700.
 
hdv said:
You need the files for the auxiliary fence. One is the plan for making one. The other is a drawing with the exact dimensions. Which 2 you need depends on whether you have the 500 or the 700.

Thanks! I still think smorgasbord’s see through jig is an good improvement.
 
ChuckS said:
The milled flats on the DF500 provide the exact center point of the cutter for alignment purposes:

Are they actually milled on the DF500? They appear to be just cast on the DF700. That said, coming in for a close up photo I see that the mark is actually a "V" - to my naked eye it had looked just like a wide "U":
[attachimg=1]

And I also noticed that the base isn't quite square all around. There some differences on the sides (which I had to accommodate when building my jig), but even the base has a 1/2mm offset (or so):
[attachimg=2]
 

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TSO_Products said:
Your efforts make me wonder if you considered  or were even aware of the detailed dimensioned drawings TSO provides for a truly simple and easier to make “DOMINO Face mortising Jig” on the “SUPPORT” Tab of our website:

Hi - thanks for contributing to this thread!

Yes, I'm aware of that jig, and I could see where it might be useful for bookcase shelves (but even then, typically one uses the shelf clamped flat to the sides for alignment), but in this case it actually makes things worse by hiding some of the necessary alignment marks.
[attachimg=1]

Let me explain with a re-creation of my situation.

It's a headboard with a recessed shelf at an angle to the side. Here's the view from the back:
[attachimg=2]
The shorter narrow board is the shelf, pre-joined to the headboard, needing to be attached to the side panel (which is inside face up). The black lines were centers for the mortises I cut into the ends of the headboard and shelf. Imagine the side panel continues up and down further (this is just scrap).

The first step is to transfer the lines used to cut the mortises in the headboard and shelf to the side panel:
[attachimg=3]
The Mortise labeled "C" is already glued up, btw. So, we need Mortises A and B to be cut into the side panel. So, I transfer the centerlines from A & B as well as the stock edge against which the fence (set to 9mm but could have been 10mm, even using a zero offset plate if using a DF500, but not an option for the DF700) was set.

The second step is to find the centerline of the mortise, hence the ruler with a 9mm offset.
[attachimg=4]

Now, yes, with the DF500 using a 10mm offset one could skip this step and use the stock edge line for alignment. But I don't have a DF500. Even so, it becomes problematic later with Mortise B.

Either way, one has to extend the lines so they're visible beyond the Domino fence, and use tape to avoid marking on wood that will be visible later (hate sanding lines off thin-faced plywood):
[attachimg=5]
Notice I marked with an arrow the actual mortise center since I have multiple parallel lines and don't want to get confused.

Now we can line up for Mortise A:
[attachimg=6]
And we've got 3 marks to line up, so we're good:
[attachimg=7]

But now, trying to line up Mortise B is problematic:
[attachimg=8]
I had to extend the centerline even further:
[attachimg=9]

But, even that only gives me two intersections since the other side is off the side panel:
[attachimg=10]

[member=57948]ChuckS[/member] 's trick of clamping a scrap board to the side and extending the marks across that would have worked. Although this side panel is over 19" wide so it's not super simple, but very do-able, I agree.

However, with my jig, I would have saved the line extension steps above, as I could see the actual lines through the jig:
[attachimg=11]

And I get super-confident that all is lined up since I see exactly where the mortise is going:
[attachimg=12]

And now it's just a matter of placing the Domino machine onto the jig and cutting the mortise:
[attachimg=13]

As I said earlier, I wish I had made the jig bigger so I could have gotten a clamp or two on it. The jig is faster than [member=57948]ChuckS[/member] 's trick of clamping additional scrap to the side, and even saves extending some of the lines since you can see the short ones just fine.

Even with a DF500 and using the standard 10mm offset (which wouldn't work if stock was not about 20mm thick), having this jig makes alignment faster, easier and more accurate. That could be just me, though.

 

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Am I the only one who sees the virtue of smorgasbord’s transparent jig?

No parallax error. No squinting to see a little mark on the side of the machine. It’s like training wheels for your eyes to make sure you’re in position.

I’d like to have one of these and he thinks it would be nicer if machined. He might go to the trouble do that with enough encouragement, so chime in if you’re interested.

[thumbs up]
 
[member=77266]smorgasbord[/member], and the rest of you contributors:

I salute all of you for this demonstration of resourceful craftsmanship.
Well Done!

Perhaps this thread inspires others to take a closer look at what is possible with a DF 500 / 700 in the New Year.

Make it a Happy and safe one in your woodshops!

Hans and TSO Team
 
Michael Kellough said:
Am I the only one who sees the virtue of smorgasbord’s transparent jig?

No parallax error. No squinting to see a little mark on the side of the machine. It’s like training wheels for your eyes to make sure you’re in position.

I’d like to have one of these and he thinks it would be nicer if machined. He might go to the trouble do that with enough encouragement, so chime in if you’re interested.

[thumbs up]

I see the value in the jig.

[member=77266]smorgasbord[/member], send me a PM if you need to have one machined. 
 
OK, I'm going to spend some time in Fusion360 and see how far I can go with the milling - should be pretty straightforward. A few things I need to work out:

1) Right now my assumption is that registering off the fence unit base plate will always yield accurate results. While there's a plastic window on the Domino fence that sometimes needs adjustment left/right, the base plate's center lines (both the 10mm/15mm height and the plate bottom's centerline) are not adjustable and so I feel it's safe referencing off the plate that has those lines.

2) However, there might be some tolerance in the fence/base machining that needs to be accommodated - what's a perfect fit for my tool may be too tight or slightly loose for another instance.

3) The Domino needs to be insertable without the jig moving on you. That's where having additional areas to support clamps, or perhaps pieces of self-adhesive sandpaper or thin rubber bumps...

4) Right now the first mortise you cut with the jig cuts the jig as well. Kind of like the strips on our tracksaw tracks. But, on the DF700 if you're cutting for a 14mm mortise then that's going to look huge when you do 8mm mortises. And if you cut loose or looser mortises, those will be bigger than the tights as well. Now, everything will be centered so this might just be OK, but it might also be nice to accommodate replaceable inserts. Hmm.

I'll report back here if/when I get something CNC machineable and we can take it from there.
 
I got a 3D printer for Xmas, I could definitely see trying to replicate your design and create a printable file.  Would you be willing to share detailed measurements?
 
I'm iterating on some updated designs, with right angle support so you don't need the foot and clamping areas.

But, since transparency is pretty essential to the jig, I don't think it's easily 3D printable.
 
I don't know much about 3D printing but I wonder if you could print around a strip of clear stuff and therefore encapsulate it?
 
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