Domino for long run of bookcases with single vertical supports?

[matonmacs]

I'm trying to figure out the best way to build long runs (~12') of library-style bookcases with fixed shelves to line all 4 walls of a room (out of 3/4 ply plus solid wood face frames / edge-banding with each book "bay" ~36" wide). Obviously the standard way to do this would be just to build the individual cases and join them together, but I really don't like the look of the doubled vertical supports. Frank Howarth accomplished something similar by putting the joint in the middle of each book bay and using shelf pins.


What I'm curious about is if the Domino might help solve this problem for me. I'd prefer to have the shelves fixed instead of using pins. I was basically wondering if I could just use floating tenons on each side of the single verticals to hold the selves and then assemble them in place. In fact, would it even be possible to cut the mortise all the way through and have a long Domino sticking out on both sides of a single vertical support to support shelves on each side of that vertical?

I thought about maybe trying to do sliding tapered dovetails, but (1) I'm worried I'd weaken a 3/4" vertical too much with dovetails cut on each side and (2) it would be a heck of a lot of work to cut and fit all those shelves. Is a Domino the solution I need to just get this done, or am I barking up the wrong tree? (I don't have one yet, but I've been lusting after one for a while and I'm willing buy a 500 if it would make doing this as efficient as it seems like it might).

Any thoughts / suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks

(I'm new here and did some searching already but wasn't able to find my exact question addressed in other threads.)

 

[semenza]

Welcome to the forum!  [smile]

If the seam in the vertical face frame is what you don't like about joining separate cases, then just put the face frame on after they are installed so that there is no seam.

I am curious as to why you don't want the shelves adjustable?

Seth

 

[matonmacs]

Yes I suppose you're right I could cover the seam, but I just don't really like the way the double-thickness looks (not to mention the materials usage since I'm building so many).

As far as adjustable shelves go: I just flat out don't like the way shelf pins look. Since I'm planning to do all 4 walls (basically to make a library), I planned to have all the selves exactly the same, so adjustability isn't a priority.

 

[cpw]

If using 3/4" material the problem is that for shelves that are next to each other your domino tenon won't have a lot of meat if you only have 3/8" of an inch to get two shelves lined up side by side with a single support in the middle.  One thing you might consider is the DF500 connectors, which would let you assemble the pieces separately and then draw them together.

 

[Gregor]

The problem with having fixed shelves is that you'll instantly find more and more books that refuse to fit into the grid you came up with.

 

[Oldwood]

If you mortise through the uprights and make custom length dominos that protrude out both sides of the uprights then this would work.

I would put one fixed and the rest adjustable. The glue up will be a lot of fun if you mortise every shelf

 

[matonmacs]

Okay, I think you guys are starting to convince me about shelf pins instead of all fixed shelves. The idea of one fixed shelf in the middle and then the other with pins is starting to make a lot of sense. It also occurred to me that I could still use shelf pins without drilling all the extra holes (which is the part I don't like the look of). That way, in the future I could potentially add new holes if necessary.

What I haven't gotten yet is the clear instruction that I absolutely must have a Domino to do this, which I could then show to the boss (wife) to justify the purchase.

 

[Oldwood]

Okay, I think you guys are starting to convince me about shelf pins instead of all fixed shelves. The idea of one fixed shelf in the middle and then the other with pins is starting to make a lot of sense. It also occurred to me that I could still use shelf pins without drilling all the extra holes (which is the part I don't like the look of). That way, in the future I could potentially add new holes if necessary.

What I haven't gotten yet is the clear instruction that I absolutely must have a Domino to do this, which I could then show to the boss (wife) to justify the purchase.

We always drill one hole where we want the shelf then 1 or 2 up and down from there depending on the cabinet use. I agree line drilling every vertical from top to bottom is not attractive in a open cabinet.

The domino is a game changer for a lot of furniture and cabinets, if you do any amount of this type of work you will not regret the purchase.

 

[rst]

I'll step up...you definitely need the DF500 for this job with the added benefic of making any other case job so much effective.

 

[semenza]

As a book person myself ......................  adjustable shelves are a godsend to making best use of space for an ever expanding collection. And it adds space saving possibilities such as narrow spaced horizontal for extra large books such as atlases or large floppy folios.

The 5mm holes are less noticeable than 1/4".  Many of them will be hidden by the books themselves, and drilling only what you need would really cut down on visibility. Though it adds a nuisance level when rearranging. If you don't want to see the pins themselves you could opt for one of the hidden types.

Seth

 

[Michael Kellough]

The “best” machine for this job is the Lamello Zeta but it’s much more expensive than the Domino.

You haven’t said whether there will be backs on these cabinets or how you expect to assemble sequentially if the four walls of cabinets are contiguous and there are tenons sticking out. (This is where the Zeta comes in)

I’d go with discrete cabinets with backs so they can be inserted into the spaces between, whatever. I’d use a fixed shelf at about eye height consistent across all cabinets (can be fixed any number of ways since screws would be hidden between uprights). I’d cover the vertical joint between cabinets with a 2” wide cover board capped (topped) with a bigger and thicker horizontal board scribed to the ceiling. Pins for adjustable shelves. Lamello makes some red plastic biscuits that grab into ordinary biscuit slots so you can just snap the filler strip on, with glue if you want.

 

[matonmacs]

You haven’t said whether there will be backs on these cabinets or how you expect to assemble sequentially if the four walls of cabinets are contiguous and there are tenons sticking out. (This is where the Zeta comes in)

I’d go with discrete cabinets with backs so they can be inserted into the spaces between, whatever. I’d use a fixed shelf at about eye height consistent across all cabinets (can be fixed any number of ways since screws would be hidden between uprights). I’d cover the vertical joint between cabinets with a 2” wide cover board capped (topped) with a bigger and thicker horizontal board scribed to the ceiling. Pins for adjustable shelves. Lamello makes some red plastic biscuits that grab into ordinary biscuit slots so you can just snap the filler strip on, with glue if you want.

Thanks for the thoughts and good questions. In fact it won't actually be continuous since there are door openings, etc. It's actually a square dining room that I'm re-purposing into a library. I was going to try to get away without doing full backs, securing them to a ~4" high base itself tied to the sub-floor (I'll be replacing the floor as well) and then possibly using cleats inside the top shelf at the back tied into the wall studs. They'll only be about 7' high and won't go all the way to the ceiling (which is ~14' up) and also so that the very top can be used for displaying knick-knacks, etc. I would probably do some kind of crown molding. Another thing I'm also trying to figure out is how to handle the inside corners, whether just to close them off or something else since the books obviously can't turn the corner.

 

[jeffinsgf]

I built a set of shelves very similar to what you're proposing. I did it all with pocket holes, because at the time I didn't have a Domino. Here are some thoughts on what I did right and what I'll do different next time (which will be soon, because I'm doing just what you're doing -- re-purposing an unused dining room into a library).

My shelves were all fixed. I won't make that mistake again. But, with single thickness uprights, making some of the shelves fixed and structural makes a lot of sense. Depending on span, I'm going to make a couple fixed and the rest adjustable. I'm thinking that the fixed shelves will be staggered, so I'm not trying to figure out how to engineer the Domino mortises to work in half the thickness of the upright.

I drilled pocket holes into the shelves at each stud along the wall and drove 2" screws into the studs. This really made the whole project rock solid. I will do the same this time in the fixed shelves. On shelves above eye level I put the pocket hole on top and on shelves below eye level I put them underneath. They were completely invisible unless you crawled inside the shelves.

 

[Bob D.]

"drill one hole where we want the shelf then 1 or 2 up and down "

I have done this and it's worked out well for me. Plus your uprights don't look like swiss cheese.

 

[Roseland]

Perhaps I’m missing something here, but why don’t you have each shelf supported at one end by 2 dominoes, and the other end by 3, so that the 2 fall between the 3?

Andrew

 

[matonmacs]

I'll step up...you definitely need the DF500 for this job with the added benefic of making any other case job so much effective.

Thank you! Showed your post to my wife. My DF500 gets here Monday.

 

[matonmacs]

I built a set of shelves very similar to what you're proposing. I did it all with pocket holes, because at the time I didn't have a Domino. Here are some thoughts on what I did right and what I'll do different next time (which will be soon, because I'm doing just what you're doing -- re-purposing an unused dining room into a library).

My shelves were all fixed. I won't make that mistake again. But, with single thickness uprights, making some of the shelves fixed and structural makes a lot of sense. Depending on span, I'm going to make a couple fixed and the rest adjustable. I'm thinking that the fixed shelves will be staggered, so I'm not trying to figure out how to engineer the Domino mortises to work in half the thickness of the upright.

I drilled pocket holes into the shelves at each stud along the wall and drove 2" screws into the studs. This really made the whole project rock solid. I will do the same this time in the fixed shelves. On shelves above eye level I put the pocket hole on top and on shelves below eye level I put them underneath. They were completely invisible unless you crawled inside the shelves.

Cool. Can I ask how you're planning to handle the inside corners?

 

[pixelated]

I built a set of bookcases for my wife's bookstore several years ago. At the time, I didn't have a pocket hole jig and the Domino didn't exist yet. I built them with a fixed center shelf, and drilled for shelf pins otherwise. Sides were joined to the top and bottom with rabbited joints and screws. The center shelf may have been biscuits and screws or just screws (don't remember). The fixed center shelf added a lot of strength, but was a problem otherwise, as it didn't allow for optimum spacing for the adjustable shelves to maximize the book capacity. Those cases have stood up to quite a lot of abuse, several moves and a few mods over the years.

Having just bought a Domino myself, future cases will be built with it, but, FWIW, pocket holes have worked well for me too, but require a bit of planning to hide the holes. What I've found so far with the Domino is that it's much faster and less fussy to work with than pocket jigs. 

 

[tomp]

36" of books on a 34" plywood shelf is a pretty heavy load and might result in a fair amount of deflection - find one of the span/load deflection programs on line and check it out. If you're fixed to the 36" span, look at adding a 90° stiffener along the front of the shelf (and maybe at the back too). Once you do this, adding a vertical stile over the joint between the cabinet sections will pull the whole design together. I also don't like the idea of all the holes drilled for the shelf pins, and typically only drill "sets" of 3 - 5 holes centered around the nominal shelf location, although the idea of just drilling the one hole per shelf also has merit, as it's easy enough to add additional holes after the fact with a jig like the Kreg.

 

[jeffinsgf]

Dug up a photo of the shelves I built. Might give you a feel for what you're thinking about. As someone else mentioned, a 36" span on 3/4 stock is very likely to sag. I put a 1-1/2" front on each shelf and screwed them to at least one stud. This will show you the look of 3/4" verticals with 1-1/2" (appearance) shelves.