Domino Frustration

Kevin Johnson

Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2007
Messages
98
My domino is making me frustrated.  Besides the frustration caused by user error, I am having some problems getting the dominos to fit in the slots.  Yesterday I was trying to join two 8' long panels at 90 degrees and could not get them to slip together.  This morning I watched a couple of Domino demonstration videos on Youtube, and my panels will not slip together as easily they were able to do theirs on video.  I think that I have one of 2 problems.  Either an adjustment needs to be made on the machine somewhere that will change the height of the slot that is being cut, or I dominos have gotten a little swollen and my need to go in the microwave for a few minutes.  I am going to try the microwave trick (used to do that with biscuits), but was wondering if anyone else has had that experience?

Thanks
 
I frequently find that the dominos are a very tight fit into the slots, needing a clamp to pull the parts together.  A far cry from the light tap of the hand you see in the videos.  I have several theories of what might be going on. 

One is that the type of glue may affect ease of assembly.  A glue with relatively fast tack, such as original Titebond, locks the dominos in place before you can push the joint completely together.  In the videos they seem to use white glue (which sets up a lot slower than Titebond) and they only use a tiny dab, whereas I'm more the traditional "if it doesn't squeeze out there wasn't enough" mentality.  There's a possibility that too much glue can't squeeze readily around the domino and pressure locks the assembly. 

Sometimes I plane or sand the last little ridge off each edge to make the domino fit more easily (this is also a good way to make slightly loose dominos for test assembly).  I've read that these ridges are sacrificial, actually a bit oversize, to assure good centering.  They're meant to crush against the sides of the hole, but that also makes insertion more difficult. 

I often notice when clamping up a joint that it seems to stick partway in and then suddenly release and go the rest of the way when the clamp pressure reaches a critical level.  Maybe the domino catches on ridges along the ends of the mortise caused by chatter of the cutter?  When you assemble something with several dominos in the same edge, you have to keep the pieces very close to straight, or the dominos will jam in the mortises a lot like a crooked drawer.

Don't get me wrong:  I love my domino and use it almost exclusively for joinery.  Saves me tons of time and delivers fantastic precision.

Steve
 
I have used the microwave and sanding the thickness a bit. Both methods worked. The humidity in Rochester is really high.

Mike
 
I think you need to examine the workpiece carefully before and after dry assembly to try and determine whether the difficulty in putting it together is due to a small misalignment of the domino holes (ie the holes are in wrong place), or due to the dominoes being in the right place but too tight a fit

As regards fit, in addition to the tips suggested earlier in this thread, you might try chamfering the ends of the domino tenons, like dowels that you buy over the counter. I find that this makes assembling large items much easier.

Forrest

 
I used my Domino for almost a year without an issue, and suddenly started have problems like you describe.  The issue was a combination of a dulling bit and my feed rate.  I just got careless.
 
I find that the Festool 5mm dominos are tight even at the lowest humidity with a fresh cutter.  I use a glass jar w/paper napkin on bottom to absorb the moisture and nuke em. The other sizes fit better.
 
When cutting the 5mm I rarely use the tight fit setting even for one. But I use the tight setting and widen it a bit. Mark a line and mortise on the line and then move the domino a little to the left and once more to the right by about 1mm each side to widen the mortise.

      Trying to find dead center of the stock so you can mortise either side (register from) and have a tight setting fit match up perfectly is no easy task for me. Festool ; can you please make a self centering thickness attachment for the fence.
  So I just get close and then make sure that the mating pieces are mortised to meet. Top of this piece to top of that piece. Or inside bottom of panel to edge of outside side of other panel.. huuuh ??
  Also check depth setting.

 

 
I never use tight setting at all, and haven't had any issues. I use medium or wide. The one exception were the 3 - 50mm dry doms I put in the middle of a slab timber bartop recently for registration, it's held together by dogbones, not glue.
 
I haven't tried nuking the dominos, will have to see if it helps.  Unlike biscuits, dominos aren't compressed significantly (just embossed a bit), so I didn't expect them to expand much with age or humidity.  But since the system is so precise, I suppose even a small swelling could make the fit very tight.

In my earlier post I forgot to mention the effects of feed rate, which Les and others noted.  Info from Festool about feed rate was posted on FOG earlier (sorry, can't remember the link - anyone?).  Novices almost always feed too slowly, and experienced users get confident and often feed too fast.  Festool said that too fast a feed will ofteny produce a loose fit, and too slow a feed may make it too tight.  They also said that a slow feed can cause the slot to slope toward the surface of the board from left to right.  I suppose that's due to interaction between the rotating and oscillating motions.  They have charts of ideal feed rates, but it depends on the wood so experimentation is your best guide.

As several posters here have pointed out, when there are multiple dominos in the same joint (i.e. the same two pieces of wood), very small misalignments can make it difficult to impossible to push the joint together.  This is the same issue as with classical round dowels, where the holes have to be exactly aligned and straight, but the domino is more precise than any dowel cutter I ever tried.

The most common advice, as from several posts here, is to use the wider settings on the cutter or to manually widen the slots a bit.  I use the tight setting on all the slots in one piece and in exactly one slot in the second piece (to assure alignment of the parts).  Then I use wider settings in all the other slots in the second piece.  The only trick is to remember that you want to align the centers, not the edges, of the slots so that the widening can do its job.

Multiple slots also have to align along their long axis.  That is, they need to be parallel to the face of the board and all the same distance from it.  Misalignment that way is most often due to user error, especially not holding the fence tight against the wood or tilting the machine while you feed.  But there are also some more subtle possibilities.

The above-mentioned sloping due to slow feed is one very subtle kind of misalignment.

Some people have reported that the depth setting on their domino slips during use.  I haven't had that problem, but you might want to check.  This problem is easy to detect, as you can see the setting change on the fence scale.  If your fence slips, you should send the machine in for repair.

You have to be especially careful if there are any rabbets, dados, slots, moldings, or other shapes on the edge of the pieces to be joined.  The spring-loaded pins can catch on these features and pull the machine off the desired alignment.  I've had this happen several times with dados for panelled doors.  The best techinque is to put the fence against the piece with the machine far enough from the edge that the pins don't touch.  Then slide the machine up to the edge while keeping the fence tight to the piece.  Watch where the pins go as you do this, and make certain they retract completely.

Hope this helps
 
Kevin

I am assuming you are using 5 mm dominos for joining that plywood.  I had considerable difficulty using the original lot 5 mm dominos supplied with my package which I bought when the Domino machine first became available.  I have to sand a considerable amount from the faces and edges of these "original" dominoes to use them, and even after doing so, dry fitting and subsequent disassembly always proved very difficult.  And mortices at 90 degrees to a face of hardwood plywood are the tightest!  But recently I needed to replenish my supply of 5 mm dominos and the replacement dominos are noticeably looser fitting.  I checked a quantity of "original" and "new" 5 mm dominos.  The new ones are several thousands of and inch/mm smaller both in thickness and width.  And the "new" ones came in a bag with a different part number.  Both are stored in the same Systainer.

I'll try to find my notes with the actual part numbers and dimensions and update this post.

Dave R.
 
i have definitely had the same problem that you are running into...

i've been thinking of sanding a couple of each size domino small enough that it will fit with relative ease BUT still be able to put it in for a "dry fit" without having to use pliers and maybe even a dead blow hammer to get them out!

i figure if i sand them so that they fit easily AND mark them with a magic marker so i don't use them for a finished piece, that will help me do dry assemblies with domino's with much less stress and hassle.

matthew
 
Matthew,

I did with my original dominos exactly as you are contemplating.  I have nearly 100 of the 5mm dominos that are sanded on all surfaces excepting their ends which I beveled.  I keep them in a separate bag within the Systainer that holds my collection of various sizes of dominos.  The good news is that this "overly tight fit" problem appears to be limited to the 5mm dominos.  I did not have any similar tight fit problems with any of the larger sizes.  At most, a little "kiss" sanding was needed for some of them to facilitate dry fit checks and removal.

Dave R.
 
One thing I have noticed is if I hold my pushing hand near the far end of the tool to plunge instead of holding it up near the switch and plunge I can cut the mortise much more accurately.  There is a tendency to lift the fence off the reference surface and skew the mortises when you choke up on it and plunge.
 
MarkF said:
One thing I have noticed is if I hold my pushing hand near the far end of the tool to plunge instead of holding it up near the switch and plunge I can cut the mortise much more accurately.  There is a tendency to lift the fence off the reference surface and skew the mortises when you choke up on it and plunge.

Exactly correct.  Your technique is exactly that recommended by Brian, Festool's factory training representative, and what I use.  I press firmly on the handle to hold the machine in contact with the workpiece then gently push in on the motor housing to plunge.  And don't jam in the plunge rapidly, that may cause the machine to "walk" a bit sideways or slightly twist, and may tear out the wood at entry.  A smooth, deliberate moderate speed plunge stroke provides consistent results.  Key is to apply most of the force to the tool through the front handle, no matter the setting of the fence angle.

Dave R.
 
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