Domino Joiner Cross Stop Falling Short?

[ChuckM]

After all these years of using the cross stop (with delight for marks-free mortising), I just found out that it is not capable of handling 4mm or even 5mm mortises! [eek]

[attachimg=1]

That was disappointing as I took 2 to 3 times longer to finish the latest operation this afternoon after being forced to lay out pencil lines.

Does anyone know if Festool offers a cross stop with a smaller pin? I also wonder if there's a reliable way to reduce the diameter of the pin to a hair under 4mm? If that's possible, I'm thinking of buying an extra pair of the stops, and modify it for 4mm and 5mm tenons.

Edit: Just realized that the idea of modifying an extra stop doesn't fly because each slide alone is $72.60Cdn.

Might be I could just file flat the top and bottom so the pin can fit.

 

[guybo]

His seemed to work w/5mm,btw great old thread sassyhttps://www.festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-problems/very-very-unhappy-with-festool-after-domino-cross-stop/msg22955/#msg22955

 

[ChuckM]

Thanks Guybo for the thread link.

That's interesting because after the 4mm mortise didn't work with the cross stop, I stepped up the cutter to 5mm (it wasn't the ideal size for 1/2" (12mm) ply), but I really wanted to use the cross top to dispense with marking and save time). Yet it still didn't work, and I had to to plug it to recut it with a 4mm cutter:

[attachimg=1]

Did Festool change the cross stop pin spec.? I'll measure the pin's diameter tomorrow...I felt that the pin's shank dia. was a hair larger than 5mm.

 

[guybo]

Hi, I see the parts are different in ekat,#6 has a different # for 498590vs 493488 maybe for df 700?

 

[ChuckM]

The slides (& pins) are the same for the DF500 (red) & DF700 (blue) except that their mounting orientations are different on the rails.

The smallest tenons for DF700 are 6mm. Maybe that's why the cross stop won't work on the 4mm & 5mm mortises (while before the birth of the DF700, the pins did work with the 5mm mortises?).

[attachimg=1]

 

[luvmytoolz]

The smallest tenons for DF700 are 6mm. Maybe that's why the cross stop won't work on the 4mm & 5mm mortises (while before the birth of the DF700, the pins did work with the 5mm mortises?).

6mm for the DF700?

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I would just assume "practicality"? How many times would a person need to put several 4mm Dominos in a row, where the stop would be handy?
I would think that they expect those tiny units to be used on fairly small parts where only one is used? or maybe 2, one referenced from each edge?

 

[ChuckM]

The smallest tenons for DF700 are 6mm. Maybe that's why the cross stop won't work on the 4mm & 5mm mortises (while before the birth of the DF700, the pins did work with the 5mm mortises?).

6mm for the DF700?

I just checked, and you are right, the smallest cutter for the DF 700 is 8mm dia. (excluding the use of a third-party adapter).

 

[ChuckM]

I would just assume "practicality"? How many times would a person need to put several 4mm Dominos in a row, where the stop would be handy?
I would think that they expect those tiny units to be used on fairly small parts where only one is used? or maybe 2, one referenced from each edge?

The 4mm cutter is used on 1/2" stock (or smaller), which is the ply thickness I prefer for its weight where applicable. Yes, it is not a common material used for large cases, and therefore I didn't know the cross stop doesn't work with the 4mm cutter. But it seems odd that (subject to my further checking) even the 5mm mortises are too small for the cross stop.

 

[Michael Kellough]

The Domino 500 and it’s cross stops had already been in production a few years before 4mm Dominos and cutters came along.

 

[ChuckM]

Yes, but does it work with 5mm cutter which has been around since day 1(?)? When I tried it in yesterday's operation, the pin didn't seem to work with 5mm mortises either.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Yes, but does it work with 5mm cutter which has been around since day 1(?)? When I tried it in yesterday's operation, the pin didn't seem to work with 5mm mortises either.

Don’t know, been a while since I used it. I’ll go with your results.

 

[ChuckM]

OK. I examined the pin, and it's 5mm in dia.,  meaning that if you're careful in registering the pin, the cross stop can be used with the 5mm mortises. But if the pin was just a hair under 5mm in diameter, it'd be a great time-saver. I'll share a pic later after I'm done in the shop.

Unlike using the 4mm cutter on 1/2" stock, the 5mm cutter (12mm + 28mm) will cut through the stock unless a spacer is added to the machine's rail. All this extra effort would make the use of the cross stop a moot point.

 

[ChuckM]

[attachimg=1]

The spring loaded pin wouldn't go all the way into a 5mm mortise freshly milled on facegrain. It might be better if the mortise was endgrain.

I might end up filing a flat on the top of the pin (as well as a flat on the bottom side of the pin if I have another 4mm cutter suitable project to do). If I screw up, the worst scenario is a $150 Cdn experiment.

 

[squall_line]

[attachimg=1]

The spring loaded pin wouldn't go all the way into a 5mm mortise freshly milled on facegrain. It might be better if the mortise was endgrain.

I might end up filing a flat on the top of the pin (as well as a flat on the bottom side of the pin if I have another 4mm cutter suitable project to do). If I screw up, the worst scenario is a $150 Cdn experiment.

I would worry about the flats potentially rotating and causing registration issues with the larger mortise sizes, owing the the free-spinning nature of the pins themselves.  Or even rotating and catching attempting to slip into the next 4mm mortise.

 

[ChuckM]

Good point if the pins rotate. I didn't check them and thought they were fixed. If they rotate, filing a flat won't work.

Back to the drawing board. It's a shame that the cross stop is not designed to work with 4mm mortises, or with 5mm mortises without a hiccup.

 

[ChuckM]

Not happy with the pins as is on the cross stop (which could get stuck on even the 5mm mortises), I decided to explore alternatives that would allow the cross stop to handle the 4mm and 5mm mortises. I found some economical spring loaded pins, and have ordered them. I still have to figure out how to mount them on the cross stop in use. Or maybe I can mount them to the slides (indirectly?).

This will be a shop experiment project when the pins arrive after the holidays. If it failed, it'd be a $15 (not $150 Cdn!) lesson. (If it succeeded, I'd go ahead and order a new bag of 4mm mortises, which are running out soon after some recent projects.)

[attachimg=1]

 

[TSO_Products]

Not happy with the pins as is on the cross stop (which could get stuck on even the 5mm mortises), I decided to explore alternatives that would allow the cross stop to handle the 4mm and 5mm mortises. I found some economical spring loaded pins, and have ordered them. I still have to figure out how to mount them on the cross stop in use. Or maybe I can mount them to the slides (indirectly?).

This will be a shop experiment project when the pins arrive after the holidays. If it failed, it'd be a $15 (not $150 Cdn!) lesson. (If it succeeded, I'd go ahead and order a new bag of 4mm mortises, which are running out soon after some recent projects.)

[attachimg=1]

[member=4938]chuck[/member] - can you let us know how often your need involving 5 or 4mm Domino placement arises in a year and how many mortises on each project?
We are interested in gaining a wider understanding of unmet functionality needs involving the DOMINO series.

Hans

 

[ChuckM]

Hi Hans,

I use the cross stop only when a project is long/wide enough to justify its use, otherwise, pencil lines will do the job. When I created this thread, it was the first time I tried using the cross stop with 4mm tenons (and then found out the cross stop didn't work with 4mm mortises, or, to some extent, even 5mm ones, even though the design should allow for the latter). For the last particular project, 24 4mm tenons (48 mortises) were eventually used. A work-in-progress shot:

[attachimg=1]

As for the number of projects done using 5mm or 4mm tenons a year, 3 or 4 would be a reasonable estimate, though not every one may require the use of the cross stop. This is no different from whether or not the cross stop will be used with 6 or 8mm tenons. I do try to use the cross stop whenever possible to eliminate the tedious marking of placement lines, and avoid unnecessary errors.

The spring loaded pins haven't arrived yet, but hopefully they will sometime this month.

 

[Willy Eckerslike]

One must also assume that you will experience wear on a 5mm cutter which would marginally reduce its diameter over time.  This might not manifest itself when forcing a wooden domino into a slot cut into wood, but might be sufficient to prevent a 5mm spring loaded pin from engaging properly