Dominoes and glue squeeze out

[Jason Kehl]

Hey all; what are your preferred methods for applying glue to Dominoes? I find it difficult to get what seems to me to be an adequate amount of glue and yet avoid sqeeze out.  I have been brushing a small amount on the dominoe, inserting it and brushing the excess up onto the other half of the Dominoe before installing the other part to be joined. I want a strong joint but chasing glue is getting tiresome.

Any tips out there?

jas

 

[VictorL]

I'm usually applying glue along cut line on one piece, then small drop inside mortise. Using small brush covering mortise inside. small drop on each side of domino, then brushing glue. Insert Dominoes, then brush squeezed glue. Then small amount of glue inside opposite mortise and opposite part.
It's not so bad as it seems

VictorL

 

[John Stevens]

I've seen this question asked a few times, but I don't remember it having it been asked in the "ask Festool" sub-forum.  I'd be curious to read what the official recommendation is.

Regards,

John

 

[Jesse Cloud]

Light coat both sides of mortise.  Light coat both sides of tenon.  Push together until about 1/4 inch apart, brush excess glue off the assembly, bring tight.  Shouldn't have to, but if there is squeeze out, clean up with a scraper, chisel, any flat edge.

 

[Jason Kehl]

Thanks guys.

I would also like to know what the official Festool stance is on this. It seems as though Shane and others moderate all the discussions, any input on this from the experts?

I have been tempted to just put a bit of glue along the rim of the mortise and push the dominoes in, it would eliminate any squeeze out and be very fast but I quesion how strong the joints would be. I can't see an adequate bond with this technique, so I have avoided it so far.  Brushing the glue creates a strong joint, but is time consuming. Cleaning up the squeeze out is also time consuming and it is so easy to miss some and not realize it until the finish is being applied. Some projects require many dominoes, so to have a fast and effective method could significantly impact the overall constrcution time.

j

 

[mouppe]

I don't think there's a particular rule, but at 6.40 into this Festool video, you can see he puts glue in the mortise and not on the domino. I tend to do the same, then stick in the dominoes, and then put a good amount of glue on the exposed half of the dominoes. Usually I don't put glue in the second set of mortises.

Festool Domino Joiner

 

[Kevin D.]

I never put glue on the Domino itself, only inside the mortise.  I use these little plastic thingies from Lee Valley to spread it on the two inside walls of the mortise.

http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=48479&cat=1,110,42967

 

[Captainwrinkles]

Well, Lamello have a quite a well designed gluing system seen here,

http://www.lamello.com/en/downloads/application-videos/gluing-system/various-nozzle-types.html

I was hoping Festool might design their own kind of system with different sized nozzles to suit the varying size of domino joints  [poke]

However, an old school worker that taught me as i was a young apprentice, used short lengths of Cane (reed spline ) seen here - http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=1701&filter=reed%20spline

He would cut them about 200mm long (8 inches) and bang one end on the bench to splay
the end out. Then by dipping that end into a pot of glue, he could then apply glue to dowel holes (or in this case Domino joints).

So far this is the beth method I've used to get glue into dowel holes, domino joints with a good coverage inside the holes

Try it for yourself.

Benn

 

[Captainwrinkles]

Oh i forgot to mention. He also had the glue in a little plastic container with a lid on the top. a hole slightly
larger than the cane was cut into the top of it, so that every time you dip your cane into the glue then pull it back out through the hole,
you get enough glue on the end of the splayed cane stick without having to wipe it on the side of a container to get the excess off  [smile]

Worked every time

 

[JeromeM]

I've seen this question asked a few times, but I don't remember it having it been asked in the "ask Festool" sub-forum.  I'd be curious to read what the official recommendation is.

Regards,

John

Jesse gives the best advice. One of the Mags did a test with a glass plate
Glue on tennon only
Glue in mortice only
Glue on both

The result was very clear that glue on both was the best way. Neither of the first 2 gave an even coating.
Glue on tennon only: = joint glue starved at the bottom, glue scraped off by mortice, lots of squeeze out.
Glue in mortice only: = joint glue starved at the top, glue scraped off by tennon, no squeeze out.
Glue on both: = good glue coverage, little to no squeeze out.

 

[Jason Kehl]

Thanks guys, I will experiment some. A little surprised that putting glue on the mortise and dommino would result in no squeeze out though. I can't see how that would work when coating either surface results in excess glue.

j

 

[JeromeM]

Thanks guys, I will experiment some. A little surprised that putting glue on the mortise and dommino would result in no squeeze out though. I can't see how that would work when coating either surface results in excess glue.

j

Because when coating the tennon only people use a lot to, try to use enough. Sure if you do that you will get squeeze out. However I didn't say "no squeeze out" I said little to no squeeze out. I don't remember exactly where I saw the video, it may have been fine woodworking magazine. However if you can find it they had 3 mortices with a glass plate forming 1 face the Results were as I said.

If you use enough in the mortice to get squeeze out, with a tight fitting tennon you can get a hydrolic lock that can split you wood or force the joint apart.

 

[Trosey]

I use a glue/acid brush and apply glue to both the mortise and the tenon/domino. I give the brush a hair cut before using...i.e cut off about half the bristles. I find that this reduces the amount of glue that the brush will hold. I squeeze a big glob of glue on a piece of cardboard and then dip the brush into the glue as needed.

I make my parts appear as if they were integral tenons.  When gluing the domino in these parts, I can use a "damp" rag to remove any excess glue from the shoulder of the tenon and can get into the corners with a dry brush.  In other words, I glue the domino into the slats, aprons, stretchers, and etc. and lay those parts aside.

This method makes dry fitting easier for me. Only one part is moving instead of multi-parts. And only half as many joints to apply glue during glue up and clamping. This probably takes longer but it reduces stress for me and most of the excess glue is on rags and cardboard in the trash can.

HTH

Trosey

 

[jacko9]

I agree with Trosey.

"I make my parts appear as if they were integral tenons.  When gluing the domino in these parts, I can use a "damp" rag to remove any excess glue from the shoulder of the tenon and can get into the corners with a dry brush.  In other words, I glue the domino into the slats, aprons, stretchers, and etc. and lay those parts aside."

I add glue to the slot area using a this piece of wood that allows me to spread the glue to the mortise side walls and then I "lightly" add glue to the tenon sides. I do the same as Trosey and assemble one half of the joint and clean off the excess glue.  I find that this process allows me a much easier final glue up of multiple joint assemblies.

 

[Rick Christopherson]

I want a strong joint but chasing glue is getting tiresome.

Any tips out there?

jas

I see this discussion coming up frequently, and not just for Domino. My strong recommendation is to stop trying to prevent squeeze out. The thinner you apply your glue to the surfaces, especially when you coat both pieces with a very thin coat, the faster that glue will skin over before mating the pieces. This is the number one reason why so many woodworkers complain about not having enough open time to assemble a series of joints.

Be liberal with your glue application and clean it up afterward. If it is a flat joint, then wait about 30-45 minutes and scrape it clean. If it is a corner or tight area, then wipe it with a clean wet rag (constantly rolling the rag to a clean area).

One tool that you will never find in my workshop is a glue brush. It creates too thin of a layer of glue. When I wish to spread the glue, I either use my finger for a small joint, or a plastic card scraper for larger ones. When I am gluing panels, I just lay a bead of glue toward the top corner (so gravity lets is spread some) and let the positioning and compression of the workpieces spread the rest.

Oh, P.S., The only issue with tenons is using too much glue and getting hydraulic lock, where the glue in the bottom of the mortise cannot escape past the tenon. There is plenty of room at the bottom of a Domino mortise, though, so you really have to flood the mortise for this to be an issue.

 

[Jason Kehl]

All good info guys, thanks. It is squeeze out in corners that I find most irritating, flat surface clean-up is usually fast and easy.

Rick; after cleaning up the fresh glue with a wet rag do you end up having any issues at all when applying a finish? I am thinking of slight discoloration or any other anomalies when staining or clear coating. If the wet rag cleanup has no real drawbacks then I would likely use this approach as I don't have to be too stingy with the glue, get a strong joint, and not take too long doing it. A win-win situation in my mind.

j

 

[jacko9]

All good info guys, thanks. It is squeeze out in corners that I find most irritating, flat surface clean-up is usually fast and easy.

Rick; after cleaning up the fresh glue with a wet rag do you end up having any issues at all when applying a finish? I am thinking of slight discoloration or any other anomalies when staining or clear coating. If the wet rag cleanup has no real drawbacks then I would likely use this approach as I don't have to be too stingy with the glue, get a strong joint, and not take too long doing it. A win-win situation in my mind.

j

Jason, While I use the wet rag method myself, there are others like the folks at Fine Woodworking.Com that caution against using a wet rag that might dilute the glue in the joint.  I'm not sure that I agree with this but, it is some "experts" opinion.  I haven't had any issues with clear finishes if I'm careful with wiping the glue away with a wet rag and like Rick suggests keep a fresh edge doing the wiping.

 

[Rick Christopherson]

Rick; after cleaning up the fresh glue with a wet rag do you end up having any issues at all when applying a finish? I am thinking of slight discoloration or any other anomalies when staining or clear coating. If the wet rag cleanup has no real drawbacks then I would likely use this approach as I don't have to be too stingy with the glue, get a strong joint, and not take too long doing it. A win-win situation in my mind.

j

No, as long as you are not smearing a big puddle of wet glue with a dry rag, there is no issue with discoloration. As I wipe forward, I will roll the rag backward so fresh rag is always acting on the surface. After one short swipe, I find a new clean area of the rag to use.

As for FWW saying it could weaken a joint, I have never read the article, but I would personally whack the author with the stupid stick for such an ill thought out comment.  [big grin] Even if you poured a bucket of water over the workpiece, the water couldn't penetrate deep enough into the wood to hamper the joint.

I use both scraping and wiping methods equally, depending on the conditions. For panel glue-ups, I tend to favor scraping. However, I have an old wooden handle Stanley scraper that you just can't find any more. (Oh....I just remembered I have a picture...I'll go find it.) This scraper will actually flush the joint at the same time as it scrapes glue. I have enough control that I can perfectly flush a solid-to-plywood joint without fear of ever blowing through the ultra-thin veneer of exotic plywoods.

The pictures below are from a 2-1/2" thick work bench joint, where we had 100 year old 16" wide planks to work with.

[attachimg=#1]

[attachimg=#2]

[attachimg=#3]

 

[Trosey]

I must have made a mistake about what the OP asked about. [embarassed]

I thought the question was "Dominoes and glue squeeze out"!

If the concern was about edge gluing a bench/table top, then I agree with Rick. Let the glue go wild and grab the ole paint scraper and get after it.

I still use a "damp" rag instead of a "wet" rag.

YMMV

Trosey

 

[mlfaber]

I don't mean to hijack this thread and go off on a tangent but I am looking to purchase a Domino and have really just started to familiarize myself.  This is a question I myself would have asked so here is another...  Are clamps not necessary with the Domino?  Not to sound stupid but do the Dominos just fit that tight??

Thank you,

Marc