Domiplate clamping mod

[James Watriss]

So, this is a mod of an existing mod... whatever that means.

I was mortising into end grain of white oak today. Rough stuff, and the machine really didn't want to hold still. Now, I'd had the idea to clamp the domi-plate down already. But futzing with the domino and an F- clamp on the wood was a real hassle. I had to turn the machine off while messing with the clamp, etc, to keep the spinning bit from dancing on the wood. I knew there had to be an easier way... and then I had the idea to screw a piece of T-track to the plate, so I could use the clamps that work with the rails and the MFS. Now I can adjust the clamp and move the machine without having to stop and turn it off.

I had to use countersunk screws to clear the clamp in the track, but the idea worked like a charm.

I did notice something interesting once everything was clamped up... the dominoes fit in easier. I'm guessing that when the bit is doing it's thing, every time it wiggles to one side, it nudges the machine a bit to the other side, and as a result, the mortise ends up not quite as wide as it should be. Bolting the plate to the mortiser, and clamping the work to the plate, seems to help.

Anyway, this is clearly going to help a lot when it comes to narrow stock, so I figured it would be worth posting. It's also a decent, albeit less comfortable way to hold the plate down and up against the work, instead of using the clamping elements knob.

Only problem now, is that I KNOW the marks on the base plate aren't properly aligned. All of the joints are flat flat flat... and slightly to one side.

F-Bomb.

Two steps forward, and one back... but I don't want to warranty the pin fence. I like pins. [unsure]

Pictured here with the poor-man's Vac-sys.

 

[GPowers]

interesting mod.

 

[RONWEN]

I like it.  It gets the thought process going...  [wink]

 

[Alan m]

i like the idea of having a clamp on it. 
the only problem is flipping the plate over. i think that a t slot cut into the face of the plate would be better as it could be used from either side without any changes being made. the plate would need to be thicker to allow for this

 

[Jesse Cloud]

Great idea!!!
My suggestion would be something like the mdf on the mft with holes to allow you to clamp from different places/angles.

Most of my workpieces are curved, so the t-track might be in the way or too far away from the workpiece....

 

[flair woodworks]

I did notice something interesting once everything was clamped up... the dominoes fit in easier. I'm guessing that when the bit is doing it's thing, every time it wiggles to one side, it nudges the machine a bit to the other side, and as a result, the mortise ends up not quite as wide as it should be. Bolting the plate to the mortiser, and clamping the work to the plate, seems to help.

That's really interesting!

 

[James Watriss]

The T-track is simply screwed on, so it can be used on either side.

A thicker plate would completely kill the jig. The thickness determines the domino placement in the work. So screwing the T-track to either side (it's drilled through, and I chased the threads from both sides) was the best option that I saw.

re: curved work, I can't see how the track would be in the way, as it's on the other side of the plate from the work.

 

[Alan m]

The T-track is simply screwed on, so it can be used on either side.

A thicker plate would completely kill the jig. The thickness determines the domino placement in the work. So screwing the T-track to either side (it's drilled through, and I chased the threads from both sides) was the best option that I saw.

re: curved work, I can't see how the track would be in the way, as it's on the other side of the plate from the work.

regarding the plate thickness, it is not the thickness of the plate that centers the domino it is the offset from the thick  part to the thinner part. if they were both thicker it would make no difference to the working of the plate exept to make it heavier

 

[RONWEN]

The T-track is simply screwed on, so it can be used on either side.

A thicker plate would completely kill the jig. The thickness determines the domino placement in the work. So screwing the T-track to either side (it's drilled through, and I chased the threads from both sides) was the best option that I saw.

re: curved work, I can't see how the track would be in the way, as it's on the other side of the plate from the work.

regarding the plate thickness, it is not the thickness of the plate that centers the domino it is the offset from the thick  part to the thinner part. if they were both thicker it would make no difference to the working of the plate exept to make it heavier

Exactly true.  [wink]

 

[Corwin]

... it would make no difference to the working of the plate exept to make it heavier

And more expensive.   [big grin]

Isn't it way past your bedtime, Ron?   [blink]

 

[RONWEN]

... it would make no difference to the working of the plate exept to make it heavier

And more expensive.   [big grin]

Isn't it way past your bedtime, Ron?   [blink]

Yeah, I keep funny hours.  It must be your bedtime too.  [unsure]

 

[RONWEN]

... it would make no difference to the working of the plate exept to make it heavier

And more expensive.   [big grin]

Isn't it way past your bedtime, Ron?   [blink]

I'll look at material cost -- it would be kind of cool to have a Kwik-clamp slot that works from both sides.  [tongue]

 

[Corwin]

Isn't it way past your bedtime, Ron?   [blink]

Yeah, I keep funny hours.  It must be your bedtime too.   [unsure]

If anything like my night last night, I'm sure it's not a laughing matter...  [mad]  But, you are right about it being my bedtime too. 

I'll look at material cost -- it would be kind of cool to have a Kwik-clamp slot that works from both sides.  [tongue]

Great!  I think it would be cool too!  Hope it works out.  [smile]

 

[James Watriss]

Fair point, I hadn't really thought about making the mounting part thicker. I'm still not sure it's really worth having the extra thickness, though. Two small screws to flip the T-track isn't really such an ordeal, and it keeps things simple. And with the thickness of the clamp, I think you're looking at making a plate that's going to be pushing an inch or more in thickness.

But there's another reason I like the 'bolt the track to the plate' idea more than a big one-piece plate. Aside from all of the above, my only real thing right now... it's not a problem, just something I'm trying to cook up in my head... Is that I'd really like a plate that could be bolted to the domino in such a way that it would be aligned in relation to the machine, so I could bolt on longer pieces of T-track to use production stops and such. But, bolting production stops to the plate isn't really practical... yet... because there's enough slop in the mounting holes that the ability to be repeatably accurate in setting up isn't there. The alignment marks on the base plate are ok, but I've already had to 'erase' them over the weekend, and scribe a new center line that's actually on-center. (The old one wasn't, by over 1/64".)

Don't get me wrong, I'm astounded by the improvement in performance with the plate, and with the plate clamped on to the work. So this thing has already exceeded expectations and paid for itself in the time savings department. But I'm a shop monkey, not a site guy. Now that I know it's possible to fix the work and the machine in relation to each other on the Y axis, the next step in evolution that I'm looking for is accurately repeatable parts production. That means aligning and fixing the machine along the X-axis, within the confines of a work station. I think the plate is the 'missing link,' to make this happen. But for my purposes, I need to do some more head scratching about alignment points. It's entirely possible that I'll have to buy another fence and plate, just so I can drill and tap the pair, and bolt them together permanently.

 

[Alan m]

Fair point, I hadn't really thought about making the mounting part thicker. I'm still not sure it's really worth having the extra thickness, though. Two small screws to flip the T-track isn't really such an ordeal, and it keeps things simple. And with the thickness of the clamp, I think you're looking at making a plate that's going to be pushing an inch or more in thickness.

But there's another reason I like the 'bolt the track to the plate' idea more than a big one-piece plate. Aside from all of the above, my only real thing right now... it's not a problem, just something I'm trying to cook up in my head... Is that I'd really like a plate that could be bolted to the domino in such a way that it would be aligned in relation to the machine, so I could bolt on longer pieces of T-track to use production stops and such. But, bolting production stops to the plate isn't really practical... yet... because there's enough slop in the mounting holes that the ability to be repeatably accurate in setting up isn't there. The alignment marks on the base plate are ok, but I've already had to 'erase' them over the weekend, and scribe a new center line that's actually on-center. (The old one wasn't, by over 1/64".)

Don't get me wrong, I'm astounded by the improvement in performance with the plate, and with the plate clamped on to the work. So this thing has already exceeded expectations and paid for itself in the time savings department. But I'm a shop monkey, not a site guy. Now that I know it's possible to fix the work and the machine in relation to each other on the Y axis, the next step in evolution that I'm looking for is accurately repeatable parts production. That means aligning and fixing the machine along the X-axis, within the confines of a work station. I think the plate is the 'missing link,' to make this happen. But for my purposes, I need to do some more head scratching about alignment points. It's entirely possible that I'll have to buy another fence and plate, just so I can drill and tap the pair, and bolt them together permanently.

i am not sure i follow the last part yet .

i thing that if the end of the domino plate had a threaded hole in it .
another short section the same as the plate with a t track on top could be bolted on to the first plate.
2  pins sticking out of the second plate could allign with holes in the firsts plate.
a spring could be put behind the pivot bolt to hold the second plate against the first plate

 

[RONWEN]

Let the ideas flow.
I've measured both style of Festool clamps and they could be inserted into a 1/2" hole (as opposed to a a T-slot) drilled horizontally through the plate.  This would still require increasing the plate thickness to 5/8" or probably 3/4" better.  I'm not sure if there is another quick clamp available out there with say a 3/8" dia. clamping bar.
Where did you purchase the T-track that you used on your mod?  You may well have the best solution.

 

[Tim2178]

I like the mod.  LOVE the floor in your shop.  I'd kill for that in my living room!

 

[James Watriss]

In order...

-It's not a question of bolting T-track to the plate for production stops. That's easy to do. The inherent problem is that there's a bit of slop in the mounting holes on the plate.  If the plate wiggles, the accuracy of the stops gets lost. Accurate production stops would require an accurate and robust mount to the tool, not just to the plate. I think the potential is there with the existing plate, but I haven't wrapped my mind completely around it yet.

-Mcmaster. $10.35 for 4'. Pre-drilled mounting holes are at a convenient spacing for this, but they're not countersunk. I just took a look, their t-track section is flush with 80/20 style stuff, so the kind I used is hard to find. Look up "T-track brackets." Due to the shape of the clamps, this track worked best, as compared to kreg, incra, etc, and other 'premium' suppliers whose track costs 2-3 times as much. You need something deeper, with the wide channel running down the bottom.

Edited to add: just checked, it would work with incra track profile. But you'd still need to countersunk the mounting holes, which have a wider spacing, to clear the clamp in this orientation. That said, Incra still costs a lot more, and gold on grey would be ugly.

-The shop floors are nice. 100 year old mill, beech(?) floors laid across Doug fir beams to isolate the concrete structure from vibrations. The best part, little to no foot fatigue. But, we did have to sand off all the existing grit and grime. It was pretty filthy when we first opened up.

 

[CDM]

What are you getting from the T-track and Festool F-clamp that you wouldn't get from using a regular one-handed F-clamp (the kind you can both open and close one-handed)?

 

[James Watriss]

I hate the one handed squeeze clamps, so I don't have any. Personal prejudice. I also don't think they're as strong.

I started clamping up with a regular Bessey tradesman, which is basically the same thing, with a different head on the end. It worked fine, but it flopped around a lot while I switched positions, machine in one hand, clamp in the other, and the easiest way to handle things was to turn the machine off between mortises. I wanted faster and easier. The T-track is merely there to hold the end of the clamp in position while I'm moving the still-running machine around, and to keep the clamp from flopping around while I close and tighten it. It's not inherently necessary, but it certainly made things much faster on this job. Three filing cabinets, 4 legs each, 4 mortises per leg, plus matching mortises in the ends of the stretchers... Even with the time to drill and tap the plate, cut the track, figure out I needed countersunk screws, and countersinking, I still saved time over free-handing it the whole batch. It's just that much easier.

Of course, I only discovered the discrepancy in the base plate markings after doing all of that...

Dropped many F-Bombs over that one...