Drill Bits Falling Out of Chuck...

[Jesse Cloud]

Relax JMB.  Take a deep breath and forget all about the posts.  I've contacted the international representative about this issue, Chuck D. Bitt, and he will be investigating the problem, reporting back to Festool and immediately making changes.  You might be called into their secret headquarters to assist in testing the newer version.  In the event they don't return you, would you please list the Foggers you would like to pass along your collection of tools to.  Thank you.

Ken

Chuck D. Bitt - ROFL [laughing]

 

[spikfot]

There are two separate issues here, IMO. The first is properly aligning and tightening the drill initially. In the case of flatted shanks Rick is right. If you miss the center of the flats you are likely to have the drill come loose. In the case of round shanked drills I believe it is necessary, make that to read as more useful, to run the chuck down close to the proper fit and then finish off by hand. The Festool chucks have a secondary tightening phase that needs to happen if you are going to have the drill held properly. I find that I cannot control this feature through the use of the motor. It may happen or it may not, and usually does not. I admit to using the motor to change from one size to another quickly but if the drill does not align when I do this I never blame the drill or the chuck, the stars just did not align for me on that occasion and I adjust. I have had drills come loose when I did not follow what I consider proper procedure and I blame no one but myself. I don't think proper procedure is all that hard.

Secondly, the issue of the drill coming loose from rapid stopping of the chuck is not exclusive to any one chuck brand or application. We use Albrecht keyless chucks on our Bridgeport milling machines all the time. For those of you unfamiliar with these chuck take my word that the quality and holding power are way beyond anything you will get on any cordless drill. However, even with them, if they are spinning at, say 800 rpm, and you turn the spindle off and apply the manual spindle brake too aggressively the chuck will open up and the drill will fall out. Very often, even if the drill does not fall out it will slip on a subsequent hole and you will find the drill has loosened slightly from a previous stoppage.

I think these types of problem and the inherent limitations to always getting the alignment done properly when spinning a keyless chuck with the motor, followed by a lack of proper cinching afterwards by hand, may have prompted the development of the Centrotec system. If given the option I will always use the Centrotec drills as they have designed out any possibility of slippage.

One last thought, and I know some of you will argue that this is not the issue, but keyless chucks do wear out over time. We have Milwaukee cordless drill where I work and they are used for maintenance chores, usuall in metal. I personally think the chucks are a little sub-par, but I also realize they are being subjected to severe use so I temper my judgement based on that fact. Even our Albrechts have a finite life.

Gold Star post by Greg Mann.
Holding metal drills is a horrible life for a chuck.

 

[greg mann]

Relax JMB.  Take a deep breath and forget all about the posts. 

Ken

sorry!  Its because I saw the Name Rick in his post I think! Agreeing with the Hex bits its an obvious observation every body knows a hex bit would fall out if not aligned properly just seems silly to keep bringing the Hex thing up. Its the reason why I used a ROUND (not hex) in the video  [tongue]

Any way NO! I am taking my tools with me! Like my babies! Cant leave them on their own! Ill take my festool chuck and swap it with the new ratchet chuck and ill be a happy bunny.

JMB

I agree, JMB. That is why I adressed it with two sentences and then moved on to the other issues. Thanks, William, for the Gold Star.  [cool]

 

[Redfox]

Hi all,
Fwiw, I had drills falling out of Dewalts, not from new, but from being ½ year old or so. Never on my trusty Bosch GSR14,4VE-2 Prof. (the good version). And once on my, now former, Festool TDK12 with the no-click chuck, and never on my T15+- with the click-chuck. It seems as if the mechanism is more well made and more positive in feel.
I will add, that I allways look if it's centered, and only ever do it by hand, not using the motor.

Cheers,
jacques.

ps: I would throw that old style chuck through the (open) window, and have peace of mind...  [unsure]

 

[RONWEN]

There are two separate issues here, IMO. The first is properly aligning and tightening the drill initially. In the case of flatted shanks Rick is right. If you miss the center of the flats you are likely to have the drill come loose. In the case of round shanked drills I believe it is necessary, make that to read as more useful, to run the chuck down close to the proper fit and then finish off by hand. The Festool chucks have a secondary tightening phase that needs to happen if you are going to have the drill held properly. I find that I cannot control this feature through the use of the motor. It may happen or it may not, and usually does not. I admit to using the motor to change from one size to another quickly but if the drill does not align when I do this I never blame the drill or the chuck, the stars just did not align for me on that occasion and I adjust. I have had drills come loose when I did not follow what I consider proper procedure and I blame no one but myself. I don't think proper procedure is all that hard.

Secondly, the issue of the drill coming loose from rapid stopping of the chuck is not exclusive to any one chuck brand or application. We use Albrecht keyless chucks on our Bridgeport milling machines all the time. For those of you unfamiliar with these chuck take my word that the quality and holding power are way beyond anything you will get on any cordless drill. However, even with them, if they are spinning at, say 800 rpm, and you turn the spindle off and apply the manual spindle brake too aggressively the chuck will open up and the drill will fall out. Very often, even if the drill does not fall out it will slip on a subsequent hole and you will find the drill has loosened slightly from a previous stoppage.

I think these types of problem and the inherent limitations to always getting the alignment done properly when spinning a keyless chuck with the motor, followed by a lack of proper cinching afterwards by hand, may have prompted the development of the Centrotec system. If given the option I will always use the Centrotec drills as they have designed out any possibility of slippage.

One last thought, and I know some of you will argue that this is not the issue, but keyless chucks do wear out over time. We have Milwaukee cordless drill where I work and they are used for maintenance chores, usuall in metal. I personally think the chucks are a little sub-par, but I also realize they are being subjected to severe use so I temper my judgement based on that fact. Even our Albrechts have a finite life.

+1  I changed all my machine chucks to Albrechts, nothing else comes close... (except collets)  [smile]

 

[fdengel]

I must be one of the few people who actually follows the instructions and takes the battery off the drill when changing bits?

You seriously do this? [eek]

Wow, you must have a lot of time to kill...

[tongue]

Most of the time -- at least with the Jacobs chucks, drill press, etc...  maybe not so consistently with the quick-change adaptors/centrotec and such...

;D

 

[Peterm]

Gold Star post by Greg Mann.
Holding metal drills is a horrible life for a chuck.

But that's all they do; that's all they were designed to do. And yet Festool chucks don't seem to fare too well in this most fundamental requirement - why is that hard for some folks to understand? Nobody's 'dissing' Festool drills, which are finely engineered and beautifully made, but if the chuck simply cannot hold a drill bit, then it makes them effectively unusable; all those clever electronics, all that torque, all those beefy batteries, they count for nothing if the bit ain't spinning with the chuck.

It's one of the reasons I stopped using Festool drills a while back

Pete

 

[jmbfestool]

Gold Star post by Greg Mann.
Holding metal drills is a horrible life for a chuck.

But that's all they do; that's all they were designed to do. And yet Festool chucks don't seem to fare too well in this most fundamental requirement - why is that hard for some folks to understand? Nobody's 'dissing' Festool drills, which are finely engineered and beautifully made, but if the chuck simply cannot hold a drill bit, then it makes them effectively unusable; all those clever electronics, all that torque, all those beefy batteries, they count for nothing if the bit ain't spinning with the chuck.

It's one of the reasons I stopped using Festool drills a while back

Pete

Another one for JMB!!!  Yes! Another person who gets it! I think thats about 5 of us so far mainly UK people  we must think differently!

 

[Ken Nagrod]

It's because you're stuck on an island!  [big grin] [big grin]

 

[jmbfestool]

It's because you're stuck on an island!  [big grin] [big grin]

[tongue]

 

[AlexThePalex]

but if the chuck simply cannot hold a drill bit, then it makes them effectively unusable;

I don't know, but using the word 'unusable' seems a bit off. It's an annoyance, nothing more. I've been using my T15 all day again today working with an aerial platform and I'd classify it far from 'unusable'.

 

[J.C.]

After reading some of these posts, it sounds like the ratcheting chuck must be of a lesser quality since it doesn't drop bits.  So, I'm more than willingly to trade my far superior non-ratcheting chuck for someones inferior ratcheting chuck and while normally I'd expect a little extra compensation ($), I'm willing to just call it even.  [big grin]  I'll also admit I'm too stupid to be able to appreciate the greatness of my chuck.  [unsure] 

 

[J.C.]

I found this http://www.festoolusa.com/products/cordless-drills/interchangable-chucks/fastfix-fx-keyless-chuck-490698.html on the Festool site.  In the latest McFeely's catalog it says, "Festool's new Keyless Chuck is a replacement 1/2" keyless chuck for Festool drills including C12, T12+3, and T15+3" about it.  Anyone know if it's a ratcheting chuck?  I can't find Chuck #496905 listed on any US web sites.  Thanks

 

[pingvinlakrits]

The drill chuck is one of the weak spots in the Festool drill/driver line.

I threw my old chuck away when I got the ratcheting chuck, but I am not overly impressed with it either: compared to all my previous drills: Hitachi, Makita and my colleagues Milwaukee the new Festool chuck is still performing below par.

 

[jmbfestool]

The drill chuck is one of the weak spots in the Festool drill/driver line.

I threw my old chuck away when I got the ratcheting chuck, but I am not overly impressed with it either: compared to all my previous drills: Hitachi, Makita and my colleagues Milwaukee the new Festool chuck is still performing below par.

Great!  [sad] I was thinkin I might get the ratcheting chuck next time

JMB

 

[engineeringtech]

People are very quick to come to conclusions....  I don't own a Festool, but I came to this forum to see if anyone had a solution for the Porter Cable we just bought.  (Bits keep coming loose.)  I've used a lot of cordless drills with keyless chucks, as well as keyless chucks on milling machines and lathes, without any problem.  (I'm a machinist.)  On this compact drill, you can start and stop the drill a dozen times without touching the bit to anything, and the bit will fly right out.  I suspect the problem is the low mass of the motor armature, coupled with a very powerful permanent magnet.  The drill comes to such a sudden stop, tit shocks the chuck loose.  I'd bet if the chuck coasted to a stop like on an AC (corded drill), this would never occur. 

 

[jmbfestool]

People are very quick to come to conclusions....   I don't own a Festool, but I came to this forum to see if anyone had a solution for the Porter Cable we just bought.  (Bits keep coming loose.)  I've used a lot of cordless drills with keyless chucks, as well as keyless chucks on milling machines and lathes, without any problem.   (I'm a machinist.)   On this compact drill, you can start and stop the drill a dozen times without touching the bit to anything, and the bit will fly right out.   I suspect the problem is the low mass of the motor armature, coupled with a very powerful permanent magnet.  The drill comes to such a sudden stop, tit shocks the chuck loose.  I'd bet if the chuck coasted to a stop like on an AC (corded drill), this would never occur.  

What conclusions?  That the original festool chuck which came with the T15 is not to blame but the fact its because the drill comes to a sudden stop OR simply its a crap chuck end off and sounds like the porter cable is just as crap.    A chuck should hold a bit no mater how many times it comes to a sudden stop.   A ratchet chuck holds perfectly fine even when drills come to a sudden stop.       Festool clearly knew it was a problem because all new chucks are ratchet.  

 

[engineeringtech]

What conclusions?  That the original festool chuck which came with the T15 is not to blame but the fact its because the drill comes to a sudden stop OR simply its a crap chuck end off and sounds like the porter cable is just as crap.    A chuck should hold a bit no mater how many times it comes to a sudden stop.   A ratchet chuck holds perfectly fine even when drills come to a sudden stop.       Festool clearly knew it was a problem because all new chucks are ratchet.  

Chill!  I was complaining about people coming to the false conclusion that since THEY haven't seen the problem, it doesn't exist.  And no, I agree with you....Drillbits shouldn't fly out of the chucks on ANY quality designed and built hand tool.    If a ratcheting chuck is the answer, then Festool should make right by early owners.    However, the chucks on my shop equipment are not the ratcheting type, and they seem to hold just fine.   

 

[greg mann]

What conclusions?  That the original festool chuck which came with the T15 is not to blame but the fact its because the drill comes to a sudden stop OR simply its a crap chuck end off and sounds like the porter cable is just as crap.    A chuck should hold a bit no mater how many times it comes to a sudden stop.   A ratchet chuck holds perfectly fine even when drills come to a sudden stop.       Festool clearly knew it was a problem because all new chucks are ratchet.  

Chill!   I was complaining about people coming to the false conclusion that since THEY haven't seen the problem, it doesn't exist.   And no, I agree with you....Drillbits shouldn't fly out of the chucks on ANY quality designed and built hand tool.     If a ratcheting chuck is the answer, then Festool should make right by early owners.    However, the chucks on my shop equipment are not the ratcheting type, and they seem to hold just fine.   

A half inch capacity Accupro (private label) keyless chuck list for $275.00. An Albrecht is $100 more. I'm a machinist too, and can distinctly remember our very nice Albrects losing drills when I hit the brake on a Bridgeport at reasonably high speed. It seems most of the better keyless chuck makers have addressed this problem but you are really talking apples and oranges here. Or, perhaps not. Festool seems to have solved the problem with their ratcheting chuck and you can get it for a lot less than the machinist's versions. That is a continuous improvement. I would not expect Albrecht would just give you their new and improved version when they got around to identifying and solving the problem to replace your 'defective' earlier version. 

 

[Frank-Jan]

... I don't own a Festool, but I came to this forum to see if anyone had a solution for the Porter Cable we just bought. 

Most of the ratcheting chucks on the cordless drills we have are made by Röhm, allthough I can't see the brand name on the festool and protool chucks I suspect they are made by them aswell.
link to website
I guess you can replace the chuck of your porter cable drill with one of those. Festool sells the fastfix chucks for about 60€, my guess is a chuck for a regular spindle will be less.

I don't have problems with bits falling out, only problem I occasionally have is that sometimes it slips on the drillbits and the hardened jaws leave a burr on the shaft of the bit.

The coasting to a stop isn't a feature that's desirable on a drill/driver, which most cordless drills are.

The chuck on the left is an old chuck from a dewalt xrp drill that I mounted on a sds-plus spindle when that drill died.