DTS400 problems

[teemacs]

...or is the problem me? Being a big Festool fan and having a big bookshelf with lots of corners to get into, I thought I'd acquire one of these to replace my veteran Bosch PSM160A. This was a  major mistake. The DTS400 is a nice little tool and does its job well, and of course has the exemplary dust extraction - BUT I find it nearly impossible to control. It judders on the surface and I can't stop it, whereas the Bosch is always as smooth as silk. Changing the speed doesn't help. What's going on? Is the orbital motion of the DTS400 too big? Or is there something I'm not understanding and/or doing wrong? 

I have many Festool tools and this is the first one with which I've been disappointed. I write this in the fervent hope that someone out there will tell me I'm an incompetent idiot and that, if I did things this way, all would be well.

 

[mac sparrow]

You need 496112 Bypass Adapter or take some pipe of the right size and drill some holes in it.

I have the same challenge.

 

[rizzoa13]

I've always found the DTS more unruly than the RTS 400. I always need to use a 27mm Hose and turn the auction all the way down. This does work though and I use it like this for drywall which is unforgiving. Sounds like the problem is too much suction.

 

[teemacs]

Thanks, gents, so, if I understand correctly, it's excessive suction that's the problem? That, I confess, would never have occurred to me.

 

[mac sparrow]

I believe so, the Bypass Adapter "bleeds" of some of the air to reduce the suction, as I understand.

 

[Kev]

I never use a lot of suction with finish sanders.

When it comes to the DTS400, I believe it's one of most versatile little sanders out there. For one reason and another I've used lots of different sanders and polishers over time and anything compared to a big rotary polisher is smooth and easy! With sanders you'll find they have their natural motion and you have to learn it and use it .. not just control it by trying to force it to go where you want it. This may sound a little zen, but you really need to get to know it [wink]

 

[teemacs]

Actually, Kev, I find my 150mm Rotex easier to manage! This little monstrosity judders no matter what I do with it. I've tried lots of pressure, I've tried little pressure, I've tried in between, nothing seems to help - it seems calm for a while then off it goes again. Perhaps I'm on the steep part of a very steep learning curve...

 

[Kev]

Actually, Kev, I find my 150mm Rotex easier to manage! This little monstrosity judders no matter what I do with it. I've tried lots of pressure, I've tried little pressure, I've tried in between, nothing seems to help - it seems calm for a while then off it goes again. Perhaps I'm on the steep part of a very steep learning curve...

[member=8210]teemacs[/member] some people have talked about a "break in" period for the brushes. I kinda though of it as a wive's tail as I've never had the issue. A couple of people here on the FOG have actually hung their new sanders on a piece of string and just let them run for several hours to "bed in".

Interesting that yours goes on and off .. maybe you actually have a dud with an internal balance issue. Is the window of "controllable" improving the longer you use it?

 

[Brice Burrell]

I've always found the DTS more unruly than the RTS 400. I always need to use a 27mm Hose and turn the auction all the way down. This does work though and I use it like this for drywall which is unforgiving. Sounds like the problem is too much suction.

The suction on the lowest setting is just too much for the small sanders in my opinion, especially on drywall mud.  I think we need to start a campaign to get Festool to make the suction go even lower on their vacs.   

 

[teemacs]

[member=8210]teemacs[/member] some people have talked about a "break in" period for the brushes. I kinda though of it as a wive's tail as I've never had the issue. A couple of people here on the FOG have actually hung their new sanders on a piece of string and just let them run for several hours to "bed in".

Interesting that yours goes on and off .. maybe you actually have a dud with an internal balance issue. Is the window of "controllable" improving the longer you use it?

That's a good question to which I wish I had an equally good answer! Sometimes it seemed smooth and I thought, "Aha, I've finally got the hang of it" with respect to applied pressure (or lack thereof) and then it abruptly got an attack of what would be called in Belfast slang "the head staggers". This is what makes me think that it's me and not it. Since I'm new to the machine, I'll practise a bit more  next weekend and see whether it (or I) improves.

 

[bobfog]

Actually, Kev, I find my 150mm Rotex easier to manage! This little monstrosity judders no matter what I do with it. I've tried lots of pressure, I've tried little pressure, I've tried in between, nothing seems to help - it seems calm for a while then off it goes again. Perhaps I'm on the steep part of a very steep learning curve...

[member=8210]teemacs[/member] some people have talked about a "break in" period for the brushes. I kinda though of it as a wive's tail as I've never had the issue. A couple of people here on the FOG have actually hung their new sanders on a piece of string and just let them run for several hours to "bed in".

Interesting that yours goes on and off .. maybe you actually have a dud with an internal balance issue. Is the window of "controllable" improving the longer you use it?

I've also been told it's a myth, but I'm not totally convinced.

When the gears are cast or pressed they have a certain coarseness to the edges of their teeth. I've got a bit of engineering experience from my younger days and I believe the teeth of any gear polish up and mesh more slickly after a few hours of running resulting in a smoother running tool.

I don't think what I've said above can be disputed, in isolation gears will become smoother and mesh better after a wear-in period. However the affect this has on the overall performance of the tool, I can't be so sure. Maybe it's a bit like the myth that a polished car is faster than a dirty car. Sure the physics is undeniable, a polished car will have less drag than a dirty one, but we are talking about such a minute difference in the real world that no tangible speed difference between two identical cars would ever be observed. 

 

[HarveyWildes]

...or is the problem me? Being a big Festool fan and having a big bookshelf with lots of corners to get into, I thought I'd acquire one of these to replace my veteran Bosch PSM160A. This was a  major mistake. The DTS400 is a nice little tool and does its job well, and of course has the exemplary dust extraction - BUT I find it nearly impossible to control. It judders on the surface and I can't stop it, whereas the Bosch is always as smooth as silk. Changing the speed doesn't help. What's going on? Is the orbital motion of the DTS400 too big? Or is there something I'm not understanding and/or doing wrong? 

I have many Festool tools and this is the first one with which I've been disappointed. I write this in the fervent hope that someone out there will tell me I'm an incompetent idiot and that, if I did things this way, all would be well.

What kind of dust collection were you using with your Bosch?  Is the Bosch/Festool comparison apples-to-apples in that regard?  I just mention it because I'm thinking of buying a DTS 400 today, primarily for light woodworking.

 

[ear3]

Has this always been been widely available in Europe?  I had never heard of it before, and it is NAINA as far as I can tell.  But on the main Festool website they indicate it specifically for the R/DTS and the ETS125, thereby acknowledging some of the issues these sanders have with running smoothly on their vacs:https://www.festool.com/Products/Ac...112&name=Hose-sleeves-AB-DTS-RTS400-ETS125-AS

I turn down the suction to about 1/3 or 1/4 power to run my RTS [EDIT: off the CT26], which mostly eliminates the jumpiness.

EDIT: I am looking for a solution though on the CTL-SYS, which doesn't have variable suction.

You need 496112 Bypass Adapter or take some pipe of the right size and drill some holes in it.

I have the same challenge.

 

[teemacs]

What kind of dust collection were you using with your Bosch?  Is the Bosch/Festool comparison apples-to-apples in that regard?  I just mention it because I'm thinking of buying a DTS 400 today, primarily for light woodworking.

Same as the DTS400, Harvey, Festool CTL Mini.

 

[Cheese]

Hers'e the actual item that Edward & Mac are referring to. Note that on the cardboard backer, it specifies that it is for the smaller sanders. I picked this up from Germany.

 

[ear3]

Why the heck is this NAINA????!!!!

Hers'e the actual item that Edward & Mac are referring to. Note that on the cardboard backer, it specifies that it is for the smaller sanders. I picked this up from Germany.

 

[Kev]

Why the heck is this NAINA????!!!!

Sie nie gefragt ...

 

[HarveyWildes]

What kind of dust collection were you using with your Bosch?  Is the Bosch/Festool comparison apples-to-apples in that regard?  I just mention it because I'm thinking of buying a DTS 400 today, primarily for light woodworking.

Same as the DTS400, Harvey, Festool CTL Mini.

Well you had me thinking, but it looks like they don't sell the Bosch PSM160A in the U.S.

 

[teemacs]

Well you had me thinking, but it looks like they don't sell the Bosch PSM160A in the U.S.

I had a quick peek at the Bosch site and it looks as if the "green" (handyman) Bosch tools aren't sold in North America at all, only the "blue" (professional) range. I guess there's too much domestic (and Japanese) competition in the handyman market.

 

[six-point socket]

Hi teemacs,

have you tried to use the DTS 400 with the filter bag instead of the vac? It would be one way to quickly determine if the problem is solely caused by the suction power of your vac as it has been suggested already.

From my two days of excessively using the DTS 400 with just the filter bag (sanding/roughening off wood protection from pine wood with 120 grit Brilliant 2 sandpaper) I can tell you that I needed to choose at least speed 4 to have it running smoothly over the surface. Slower than speed 4 had the DTS 400 behaving like in your description. But since I'm lacking experience with it's behavior on other materials/ with other grits I wouldn't dare drawing any conclusions from it.

I'd say you best bet is to give it a quick try without the vac and see if it's behavior improves, if it does the solution might be indeed the adapter shown by Cheese (or any self made variant).

Kind regards,
Oliver

PS: If someone needs help obtaining this adapter from Germany - let me know, I can buy and ship them if needed.