Dust Collection Problems with the Festool Kapex

[lucienlasocki]

Hello FOG!

This is my first forum post so please excuse any novice errors. Also, I am 15 years old.

I purchased a Bosch Glide Miter Saw about 6 months ago but returned it because the dust collection was so horrendous.

Last month I purchased a Festool Kapex. I have been using a cheap shop vac with a Dust Deputy and modified Bosch 35mm hose that is about 5ft long. The dust collection wasn't quite what was advertised or what I expected. I thought maybe the cheap shop vac was the problem, so I just purchased a Fein Turbo I. I just setup the Fein Turbo I today and the results are about the same. I would call it 75-80% dust collection. I have tried all combinations with just the vacuum or the vacuum with the dust deputy and the same for the Fein. What am I doing wrong? Of course the dust collection comes at a disappointment, because I saved up for so long to buy $1475 saw.

Thanks so much guys!
-Lucien

 

[semenza]

Welcome to the forum Lucien,

    Sorry about the disappointment. I am not sure what percentages or guesstimates you have seen for Kapex DC.  For the most part what people post is quite subjective in that regard. I think that often the real point is that the DC is better than many / most other miter saws.  I suggest trying a few cuts without the vac attached just as a way of giving yourself a reference point.

  What sort of cuts have you been doing ?  Wide , sliding, "chopping", miters? 

Seth

 

[TOOLTOWN]

Welcome to the FOG and congratulations on the awesome purchase.

You said you are using a bosch hose.  If it is the hose and fitting combo I have seen in the past that may be part of the problem.  While the hose itself is 36mm (good for moving lots of air) the tool end of the hose steps down to a narrow opening (bad for moving air).  A short Festool hose with a large diameter hose and fitting will help with dust collection.

As a shameless plug, we do stock these hoses and I think we had two of them on the rack when I left the store today.  Call tomorrow if you would like more info.

Also, watch out, it's a slippery green slope you just stepped into.  ;D

Ken

 

[Scorpion]

Welcome!

I can sympathize with your feelings regarding the Kapex's D.C.  I expected to see barely any after cutting something like a 2x4 and found quite the mess after my first project.  I think that disappointment (form me) was created by videos and posts by people showing 2 grains of dust after cutting a board and using terms like amazing and game changer. 

The reality is that many factors come into play like feed speed, material you're cutting, which D.C. you have, which hose is on your D.C., etc. 

Matt

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bohdan]

Welcome to the slippery green slope.

It also makes a big difference which way you cut.

If you use it as a chop saw and just push straight down the dust gets sprayed out the back and down thru the bottom of the cut but if you extend the saw and then drop it into the wood and push back the dust gets sprayed up towards the dust collection hood.

 

[ear3]

I did notice a small improvement in DC over the CT26 + 36mm hose when I switched over my Kapex to my 6.5HP ridgid shop vac along with a 1 7/8" hose.  A small amount still escapes, but nothing like on other miter saws I have used in the past.

 

[fignewton]

The big difference for me was making auxilliary fences so that they an be slid over creating a zero clearance vertical opening just blade-width.  (Adjust accordingly when cutting miters). I think you'll be surprised at the difference it makes.  I'm using basically the same vac setup you started with.

 

[RKA]

Your experience is consistent with mine (using a 36mm hose with festool ends).  Bevels cuts are worse, straight sliding cuts better with the fence halves pushed out so the rubber collection boot isn't forced to bend in as you slide towards the fence.

It's still better than other saws, and if you unplug the dust extractor you'll be reminded just how much.  But I would not use it inside my house.

 

[Brice Burrell]

First, welcome to the FOG!

Welcome to the FOG and congratulations on the awesome purchase.

You said you are using a bosch hose.  If it is the hose and fitting combo I have seen in the past that may be part of the problem.  While the hose itself is 36mm (good for moving lots of air) the tool end of the hose steps down to a narrow opening (bad for moving air).  A short Festool hose with a large diameter hose and fitting will help with dust collection.

As a shameless plug, we do stock these hoses and I think we had two of them on the rack when I left the store today.  Call tomorrow if you would like more info.

Also, watch out, it's a slippery green slope you just stepped into.  ;D

Ken

I think Ken might be right about the stepped down opening on the Bosch hose reducing some of the dust collection.  The good news is you don't need a new hose, you can replace the tool end of the hose.  This is the part you need, Hose Sleeve, Reducing Sleeve For Antistatic D 36 Hose - 487721.

Welcome to the forum Lucien,

    Sorry about the disappointment. I am not sure what percentages or guesstimates you have seen for Kapex DC.  For the most part what people post is quite subjective in that regard. I think that often the real point is that the DC is better than many / most other miter saws. I suggest trying a few cuts without the vac attached just as a way of giving yourself a reference point.

  What sort of cuts have you been doing ?  Wide , sliding, "chopping", miters? 

Seth

Seth's thoughts here are right on.  Subjective, that sums it up pretty well.  Also, try what Seth suggested, try making a dozen or more cuts without the vac attached and you get some perspective on the just how much dust the Kapex/vac collects. 

 

[lucienlasocki]

Welcome to the FOG and congratulations on the awesome purchase.

You said you are using a bosch hose.  If it is the hose and fitting combo I have seen in the past that may be part of the problem.  While the hose itself is 36mm (good for moving lots of air) the tool end of the hose steps down to a narrow opening (bad for moving air).  A short Festool hose with a large diameter hose and fitting will help with dust collection.

As a shameless plug, we do stock these hoses and I think we had two of them on the rack when I left the store today.  Call tomorrow if you would like more info.

Also, watch out, it's a slippery green slope you just stepped into.  ;D

Ken

I originally forgot to mention that I switched the fitting to the Festool 36mm fitting. It seems as though my expectations are too high. I don't really want to try any cuts without the dust collection as my only point of reference is the Bosch with dust collection attached. I was simply hoping maybe changing the vacuum or hose combination would help.

 

[DrD]

[member=64335]lucienlasocki[/member]

eric [member=8352]erock[/member] has a video - probably available at poplar shop, or certainly available at Fast Cap - demonstrating the use of FastCap's saw stache.  You'll need to cut a length - approx. 1' - and with 3 screws attach it to the bottom of the dust collection boot on your Kapex.

I'm pretty sure I don't get phenomenal dust collection with my Kapex, but what I get is far, far better than what happens without dust collection.  My grand-dad once told me you could tell if a woodshop was being used by the amount of saw dust on horizontal surfaces; by his rule, my shop gets used a lot, even with dust extraction on everything that is powered.

 

[curiousdork]

Also, watch out, it's a slippery green slope you just stepped into.  ;D

Ain't that the truth.  I started with a Domino 500 to help me speed some projects.  Then a TS 75 and a CT MINI.  Yeah, slippery green slope indeed.  Your wallet tends to slide first. 

 

[Cheese]

[member=64335]lucienlasocki[/member]
Here's a simple enough test. The first photo is a 2x4 cut into 5 each 3/8" slices using simply the chop method. Count particles...

The second photo is the same experiment using the sliding mitre method. Count fewer particles...

A Kapex with the standard blade, Fein Turbo II and the hose assembly that Ken from Tool Town offers. It should be easy to try the test and see how your results compare. 

 

[lucienlasocki]

[member=64335]lucienlasocki[/member]
Here's a simple enough test. The first photo is a 2x4 cut into 5 each 3/8" slices using simply the chop method. Count particles...

The second photo is the same experiment using the sliding mitre method. Count fewer particles...

A Kapex with the standard blade, Fein Turbo II and the hose assembly that Ken from Tool Town offers. It should be easy to try the test and see how your results compare. 

Thanks very much for the very easy test to conduct. I tried it and the sliding cut makes a HUGE difference in dust collection.

 

[lucienlasocki]

The big difference for me was making auxilliary fences so that they an be slid over creating a zero clearance vertical opening just blade-width.  (Adjust accordingly when cutting miters). I think you'll be surprised at the difference it makes.  I'm using basically the same vac setup you started with.

I made some auxiliary fences with 6mm UHWM jig plastic and they turned out great! I also ordered a Betterley zero clearance insert. Thanks very much for your idea and support!

 

[lucienlasocki]

I did notice a small improvement in DC over the CT26 + 36mm hose when I switched over my Kapex to my 6.5HP ridgid shop vac along with a 1 7/8" hose.  A small amount still escapes, but nothing like on other miter saws I have used in the past.

I just returned the Fein Turbo as I was unimpressed and the auto on feature didn't work. I also picked up a more powerful Ridgid shop vac from Home Depot along with a 1 7/8 hose. Thanks for your idea and support!

 

[Stone Message]

Hi Lucien

My Kapex was my in my first bunch of Festool kit that I bought 5 years ago. I too use a DD (first with my own drop box but now I have the UDD). I have the Festool CT26 which was bought at the same time and, as far as I can tell, has slightly less suck than the Fein machine.

I use a 4 foot length of 36 mm hose connected to my central "Dust Hub" which is just 4 feet from the UDD. I have my own sacrificial rear fence pieces which inhibit the flow of air at the back of the saw. However, despite all of this my dust collection is excellent. The bits that do not get sucked up are the larger particles. There is never any fine floating dust after using the saw.

When I was using my own drop box with the cheap and cheerful Dust Deputy I was not getting as much suck as I now get with the Ultimate DD. The difference is quite significant and can be seen in my video about the UDD:


At the rear of the blade guard housing on the Kapex is a rubber boot that helps to catch the dust as it is thrown rearwards by the saw. This can be misaligned if it has been knocked. It is held in place through a built in spring clip and is easy to check.

If you are using an auto start arrangement with your extractor then the saw will be ready to go before the extractor has come up to speed (or full sucky uppiness). It will help if you get into the habit of giving the extractor about an extra second before starting a cut.

Some wood, especially soft wood like various species of pine produce quite sticky sawdust which can built up in next to no time along the path of the dust extraction process. If I am cutting a lot of soft wood like this I do check regularly and it will be evident on the surface of the rubber dust catcher at the back of the saw blade housing.

Good luck.

Peter

 

[Birdhunter]

Good advice above. I have a Festool Vac attached to my Kapex through a short 36mm non-static hose and get similar results.... 80% to 90%. I have learned to let the Vac run for 10 to 15 seconds before letting the blade enter the wood. This lets the airflow build up before having to eat a lot of sawdust. I also don't rush the cut thereby reducing the saw dust flow.

Remember to let the Kapex blade come to a complete stop before lifting the saw head. This method sharply reduces the occurrence of kick back.

Enjoy the saw!