Dust Deputy (plastic) on Systainer & Festool CTL Midi

[festoller]

Well sometimes a new filter bag can really make a difference!

With the new bag the midi cyclone has a great performance! I'll post some photos tomorrow.

 

[danjames]

Festoller.

Did you use the 90 degree bend, if so this could be a problem as 90 degree bends restrict air flow significantly.

Could be the problem, try it without if you using it.

Hope this helps - Dan.

 

[danjames]

Please excuse my last post, as I just realized the new bag made the difference  [embarassed]

Dan.

 

[festoller]

Thanks Dan,

now with the new bag it even works with the 90 degree original hose (D27). Still need to post the photos.

 

[Dust Deputy]

Hello FOG!

I am excited to be able to introduce to you a new product from Oneida Air Systems, Inc. that is coming very soon! A Dust Deputy that is specifically designed to be integrated with your Festool.  I am sure most of you are familiar with the Dust Deputy(www.dustdeputy.com).  For those of you who are not familiar with the Dust Deputy, the Dust Deputy is an extremely efficient, cyclonic pre-seperator for vacuums.  The Dust Deputy will filter 99% of sanding dust, with only 1% going into the vacuum, thus extending the life of your vacuum and filters. 

Coming very soon, Oneida will have a Dust Deputy that has been designed to be integrated into your Festool systainer system (see picture) seamlessly.  No more cumbersome buckets attached to your Festool.  All the benefits of the Dust Deputy in a streamlined design for your Festool, that works with your Festool Systainer system. 

Please leave me your questions and/or comments.

Thanks,

Jason Seymour
Sales Manager
Oneida Air Systems
jason@oneida-air.com

 

[festoller]

Just when I've finished my Dust Deputy Systainer Oneida introduces their own ?Sysdeputy?. Great!  [blink]

Aynway as promised here are the photos:

For Kapex use I'd prefer a D36 on both ends, but the D27 works just fine with all the other Festools.

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If you need to fit it under the MFT/3, no problem!

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The whole thing works perfect, just take your time to really make it airtight!

 

[Jonhilgen]

Festoller, nice job!!! [big grin]

I have been waiting to see how your project would come out, and have been doing some research to see if I should buy the MIDI?, would it work with a DD?, should I build my own?... and voila!  Here comes the DD version.  Jason from Oneida tells me it's about 30-60 days out (maybe sooner), but don't know the price yet... 

At least you were on the cutting edge!  Great execution.

Questions:  what types of hoses did you end up using?  Are they Festool?  How did you line the top of the systainer? 

 

[festoller]

Jonhilgen:

It's the grey Festool D36 hose. I thought about buying the antistatic green one, but the grey works just fine.

The original hose end will fit into the Midi and the D36 DM-AS Reducing sleeve, antistatic (#487721) will fit into the DD (part of the D36 original hose). The original Midi Hose will fit from the DD to your Festools with a little tape.

Since I've cut the D36 hose in half I had to buy two more D36 DM-AS Reducing sleeves, antistatic (#487721) to connect the DD and for example the Kapex.

The top (inside) is from a Sys 1 Box.

You need to really glue the top and the DD to the Systainer so it's airtight.

I'll keep you updated on the long term use, but for now it seems to work great together.

 

[JeromeM]

Just when I've finished my Dust Deputy Systainer Oneida introduces their own ?Sysdeputy?. Great!  [blink]

The whole thing works perfect, just take your time to really make it airtight!

Have you tried it with a plastic bag inside your wood liner?
If it works OK I would think it would make emptying the sawdust easier and more Festoolian  [eek]

 

[festoller]

Jerome:

I guess because of the strong airflow the bag would be sucked up. I thought about that too, but you'd have to find a way to attach the bag to the wood box.

I've also thought about a proper sized paper box, but in the end it will probably come close to the price of Festool filter bags.

The easiest and cheapest way is to cover the wood box with a plastic bag and carefully pour the dust out. Of course one shoud wear proper respiratory gear doing this. For hazardous material I would rather use the Midi without DD anyway.

I wonder how Oneida has engineered the inside of their "Sysputy"?

However this setup has some advantages, you can still carry the Midi with the Systainer handle and move it arround quite easy and of course this solution is looking much cooler.

Although depending on the functionality and final design as well as price I would still consider buying the Oneida "Sysputy" if it's designed to work with the Midi and not just the bigger models.

 

[JeromeM]

Jerome:

I guess because of the strong airflow the bag would be sucked up. I thought about that too, but you'd have to find a way to attach the bag to the wood box.

I would think that a bag should not sucked  [eek] up as there should be no airflow in the collector. If there were the dust itself would not stay there.
I would think that no attachment would be needed just folding the excess over the edges of your wood box liner should be fine.
The reason I ask is because of the collection system shown in the FWW "An Island Workshop"
http://www.finewoodworking.com/Workshop/WorkshopArticle.aspx?id=23974
You will see at about 4 mins Alan DeVilbiss shows his collection method. It is only a plastic bag so it should work.

I haven't built mine yet (I will do so next month) so I can't test it now.

 

[festoller]

Looks like his connection from the cyclone to the bag is fixed and quite long, that might limit airflow somehow.

My personal observation is that there's a certain amount of dust starting to flow through the cyclone when I start the Midi. Also the sucktion is quite strong and can compress the systainer if you block the end of the hose.

Although the other versions here on FOG never showed a bag, I'll just give it a try later today anyway.

 

[bobbobbob]

To eliminate the bag being 'sucked up', add a small vacuum line to the container.  Source can be from dust collector itself.  This would create negative pressure between walls and bag and keep it in its place.

 

[Michael Kellough]

To eliminate the bag being 'sucked up', add a small vacuum line to the container.  Source can be from dust collector itself.  This would create negative pressure between walls and bag and keep it in its place.

That's a good idea!

I'd call the new clip-on dust collection box a Sysbucket.

 

[JeromeM]

Looks like his connection from the cyclone to the bag is fixed and quite long, that might limit airflow somehow.

My personal observation is that there's a certain amount of dust starting to flow through the cyclone when I start the Midi. Also the sucktion is quite strong and can compress the systainer if you block the end of the hose.

Although the other versions here on FOG never showed a bag, I'll just give it a try later today anyway.

Have you had a chance to try out the bag?

I have just found this http://sanaka.smugmug.com/Woodworking/Cycloned-Shop-Vac/10837914_qxJSY#755870512_jWLs9 and he is using a plastic rubbish bag and says

"I really wanted to be able to use a regular trash can with regular trash bags/liners, so I can neatly dispose of the dust and shavings. If you have to dump out the can, you get exposed to everything you collected anyway - a little self-defeating. The piece of Formica sprung inside keeps the liner from floating around or geting sucked up. Although, it seems to work without the Formica too."

the complete systen is here

and it is a WMS  [scared] (not WMD)  :

 

[festoller]

Jerome:

I've tried the bag alone and it didn't work. After a few seconds the bag was sucked in the DD.

 

[Witchetty Grub]

Great idea.  I am considering making my own like Festooler or buying one.

On Oneida's website I noticed that their system has a small diameter hose with a valve that connects from the inlet elbow of the Festool vacuum to the side of their box.  It apparently keeps the plastic bag from being sucked up into the cyclone.  When using a plastic bag the small valve is opened.  And when not using a plastic bag the valve is closed.

On Oneida's website there is a photo and explanation of it on page 13 of their Owners Manual:

http://www.oneida-air.com/pdf/Plastic%20Dust%20Deputy%20Combined%20Owners%20Manual.pdf

Hope this helps
Witchetty

 

[Bob D.]

I know this is an old thread but for anyone coming along and wondering how to deal with your bucket or other container being sucked in when the vacuum gets dead-headed or the hose becomes blocked I have a possible solution.

In central vacuum systems it is common to install a relief valve which prevents this condition. It the hose gets blocked or pressed up against something and no air can enter the hose then the vac starts drawing a vacuum on everything in the system and it can cause damage. But a inexpensive and easy to install relief valve can alleviate this problem.

I'm not going to give you links to products because I am not pushing any one source or product over another. All the ones I have seen and purchased have been less than $15.00. You can find them online at the places that sell central vacuum systems and parts and probably also can be found on Amazon but I have not looked there.

With the relief valve you won't lose any vacuum unless your system is not moving any air and drawing a full vacuum or at least as much as it is capable of. The valve opens and remain open until the condition is removed at which point spring pressure closes the valve. It's totally passive and uses no power or batteries.

In my basement shop I use the house central vac as my vacuum source and have a ultimate dust deputy installed to collect all the dust from the shop. I installed a relief valve because the central vac has way more power than my CT36. When I'm using any of my Festool sanders with the central vac not enough air can flow through the sander if the pad is completely on the workpiece and none of the holes in the pad are open/exposed. For the RTS400 it seems that it moves so little air that the relief valve opens any time I am using it. There is still suction available at the tool when suction pressure is relieved by the valve. This protects the vac as well as the piping in the system.

If you putting together your own system it should be easy enough to incorporate one into the plumbing somewhere.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Thanks for the relief valve suggestion and info Bob. When the hose end sticks itself hard onto something under power I want to get it off as asap and with the relief valve that should be much quicker.

The simplest solution to bucket collapse remains what bobbobbob posted back in 2009, just use two buckets, nested.

 

[ChuckM]

Snip.

The simplest solution to bucket collapse remains what bobbobbob posted back in 2009, just use two buckets, nested.

I found the double bucket idea elsewhere, and have used it ever since for years. Zero failure rate no matter what happens to the suction. Cheap, simple and effective. I have two such DD set-ups in my shop.