Dust extractor question

[JHZR2]

Hello,

First time poster.  I've been doing searches and reading threads over the last number of days, but I haven't fully figured out my plan...

I have a variety of saws, sanders, planes, etc., from a number of different manufacturers. What I don't have is a vac that is better than a Ridgid unit from HD.  I want/need to change that - my shop is small, and I do desire cleanliness.

But I'll emphasize that my shop is small - a CT 26 would fit fine, but my existing workbench wouldn't facilitate storage underneath, so I will need open and used flor space for an extractor...

I'm concerned about wood chips and cleanliness, but sanding and fine dust is probably the greater practical concern. I'd think that any vac from the CT SYS through the bigger 26/36 models would be fine, all have HEPA ratings and all have roughly the same suction.  I would probably be inclined to acquire in time some festool sanders to take further advantage of dust collection designs...

But what about when I run my table saw, mitre saw, or planer, things that make bigger chips?  I understand that a 36mm AS hose can be fit to the SYS, Mini and Midi, even if routing isn't the best.  So then it turns into a matter of efficacy and bag size.

As mentioned I don't have a current extractor.  On my planer and mitre saw I use bags that collect some dust, but it gets all over and then I clean up later fwiw. But for doing a reasonable amount of cutting on a mitre and table saw, will the SYS and mini be overwhelmed (full) in no time flat?  Is there a practical minimum volume that makes sense for hobbyist workflow?  I don't want to be changing bags all the time, but I also want the balance of a smaller machine. 

For sanding, I can't see that I need anything more than a very smal machine, SYS or mini or midi. If I'm cutting down 2x4s in my mitre saw, or taking apart 3/4" plywood on my table saw, is it just stupid to think that this is a reasonable use for something even as large as the midi model? I just don't do that much cutting, but I do make such a mess...

My optimal would be one of the small guys with a 36mm hose and use it on my saws, then be able to sand with it too...  Let's say I'll never do more than 200" of cuts on a project, and would intend to change bags if sanding... But if they just won't handle saws and planing for something like that, then I'll need to consider a 26.

Thanks for your thoughts!

 

[peter halle]

First of all  [welcome] [welcome] to the FOG!

If I were in your shoes I would pass right by the CT-SYS.  Really designed as a portable solution / augmentation to other FESTOOL dust collectors.  For sanding you really need the variable speeds and the bags will fill up quickly for you in your work situation I fear.

I personally fell that the Midi is at a great spot in the line-up if the 26 is too big.  For larger chip handling and storage some of us have added cyclones to our systems but of course there is always the risk of static electricity causing or not causing damage to the electronics.  I have the older 22 and have not had issues but some with the 26 have.

Peter

 

[antss]

Forget the ct-sys.  You should also have a look at Oneida's Dust Deputy.

But , what kind of saw and planer do you have ?  If you've got a cabinet saw with a 4" port and or a stationary planer - even a DD and a vac are going to overwhelmed. You'll do ok if they are a jobsite saw and lunchbox planer.

I'd look at the mini though , as the increased bag capacity of a midi or 26 is kinda moot when connected to a DD.  You'll need a 50mm hose for the planer and saw too.

 

[JHZR2]

Thanks for the replies!  I have a dewalt 7491 which has a 2 1/2 bottom port and a inch and something top port. 

My planer is a makita KP0810, 3 1/4" unit.

I also have a 12" mitre saw with a top port to collect dust.

Good point in variable suction - a key reason to get HEPA is to collect the fines very efficiently...

I've found a ct26 used locally.  Not sure that will be my end all selection, because of size/space, but it's a good start given the cost of these new.

But a midi may be my best end bet.

Anything like a Venturi collector takes up even more space. At that point, I might as well get a bigger vac.  If I know I'm not doing anything with lead, can a basket type "filter" be used to make removal of big chips easier, or will that kill the HEPA element too fast?

Thanks!

 

[Michael Kellough]

The main feature of the Dust Deputy is to save the cost of filter bags.

 

[antss]

Hand held planer is fine with a vac and a 27/36mm hose.

As long as you don't mind the cost of the bags roughly $7-8 a piece then the Midi would fit your bill. You'll still need a larger hose (50mm) for the table saw - I'd suggest a shorter inexpensive one from the Depot for the few time you'll hook up to the saw(s).

The second you balk at the bag cost ; you're sunk.  You'd need a D.Deputy or other cyclone which takes up space.  Don't even think about running these vacs without a bag installed.

Never.

You'll kill off the suction and quickly clog and ruin that HEPA filter @ $70 -$80 . 

p.s. - you can always take off the hose garages if you want the vac to be shorter.

 

[Kodi Crescent]

Forget the ct-sys.  You should also have a look at Oneida's Dust Deputy.

But , what kind of saw and planer do you have ?  If you've got a cabinet saw with a 4" port and or a stationary planer - even a DD and a vac are going to overwhelmed. You'll do ok if they are a jobsite saw and lunchbox planer.

I'd look at the mini though , as the increased bag capacity of a midi or 26 is kinda moot when connected to a DD.  You'll need a 50mm hose for the planer and saw too.

I bought a DD once.  It tipped over during assembly, cracking the plastic cyclone at the mounting bolts.  I called up Oneida and asked if they could rectify it.

Their reply was something to the effect of "since the cyclone was in perfect shape when you opened the box, then YOU damaged it.  We can ship a new cyclone for [ some unreasonable amount ]." 

"The thing tipped over upon assembly.  Are you telling me that the build is so weak it can't withstand tipping over?  Is that really acceptable or reasonable?"

"We can ship you out a new cyclone for [ some unreasonable amount ] plus shipping.  Are you interested? "

Thank you Woodcraft for accepting it as a return.

I'll never do business with Oneida.  I used the money to buy the Festool Long Life Bag instead.  It works flawlessly, no matter how many times I tip it over.

 

[antss]

Another reason one should consider shopping at their local dealer rather than over the internet.

Kodi would have been SOL if he'd pointed and clicked on Oneida's site.

 

[grbmds]

I have a CT and have tried using it on my jobsite size table saw and my router table. I found that, while it's certainly better than using a dust bag on the exhaust or nothing, the results are not that great. For me, it would be worth it to find a way to fit a dust collector that has HEPA filtering in your shop. I have found that is the only way to really grab the required amount of dust off these machines.

As for Oneida, I have used their equipment for over 20 years and found them to be the best in terms of service and quality of dust collectors, including filtration. I would certainly have taken my request for replacement to a higher authority at the company. However, I don't usually hold a company responsible for something I did during unpacking or assembly. If you feel it truly was damaged by just knocking it over onto the floor, I'd certainly give it a second try.

 

[QuailRider43]

CT26 + Ultimate Dust Deputy for handheld power tools.  I also love the boom arm when using handheld tools.  27 mm hose for sanding and domino.  36 mm hose for track saw or mitre saw, 50 mm hose for the table saw.  I use a spare loose 36 mm hose (can be generic) for floor vacuuming / cleanup.  When it's time for extended use of the planer or joiner (i.e. large chips), I use the CT with a generic 50 mm hose to a garbage pail with a Veritas cyclone lid.  Works a treat, since I don't have room for a large stationary duct collection system.

 

[antss]

[member=19734]grbmds[/member]  - what diameter hose are you using when connecting to the tablesaw ?

That a small hose would explain the performance you see.

 

[grbmds]

[member=19734]grbmds[/member]  - what diameter Jose are you using when connecting to the tablesaw ?

That a small hise would explain the performance you see.

I tried the two largest Festool sizes, 36mm and the 50mm extension from my CT. Neither was as good as my 4" cyclone. I'm sure this is because the Sawstop Jobsite saw has a 4" port and any of the Festool hoses are smaller (plus the inlet on the CT is smaller also). My experience has always been that, with most table saws, anything less than a 4" hose doesn't give the desired results. The only time it didn't make any difference was when I owned a Ryobi BT3000, which already had a 2 1/2" port. Then, it made no difference whether I used my dust collector with a larger hose or a vac with the 2 1/2" hose.

 

[antss]

Most jobsite saws have a 2 1/2" port an do fine with that. 

Sure a 4" port and a true cyclone dust collector would be better, but that's a lot more $$$ and space that's needed to go that route.  I'm guessing that's not likely for jhzr2.

The CT's don't move enough air or have enough water lift to run a 4" hose, so I'm not surprised you had less than stellar results if that's what you tried.

 

[grbmds]

Most jobsite saws have a 2 1/2" port an do fine with that. 

Sure a 4" port and a true cyclone dust collector would be better, but that's a lot more $$$ and space that's needed to go that route.  I'm guessing that's not likely for jhzr2.

The CT's don't move enough air or have enough water lift to run a 4" hose, so I'm not surprised you had less than stellar results if that's what you tried.

Actually just checked and I misspoke. I adapted the Sawstop port up to a 4" port (It's been awhile and, when I looked, it looked like the original port; not an adapter). I did that because I didn't get good results with even a 50mm hose. I get much better collection with a 4" hose to the 4" adapter. Anyway, I guess I was just cautioning the poster that he might not get the results he expects using a vac on a table saw. I didn't.

 

[Kodi Crescent]

As for Oneida, I have used their equipment for over 20 years and found them to be the best in terms of service and quality of dust collectors, including filtration. I would certainly have taken my request for replacement to a higher authority at the company. However, I don't usually hold a company responsible for something I did during unpacking or assembly. If you feel it truly was damaged by just knocking it over onto the floor, I'd certainly give it a second try.

I knew I'd get at least one of these...Perhaps in your 20 years of service you purchased lots of equipment from them, and you are a known customer with a certain level of "value" to the company.  Me, I'm a hobbyist.  That was going to be my final purchase regardless of the outcome.

The point is to make a more durable product.  In my opinion, after you spend $250 for one of these (UDD), you have some basic expectation of durability (see Kapex dead motor threads for other examples).  If it didn't get tipped over during assembly, it certainly would have been tipped over at some point in it's life, such as when it gets emptied.  Or it could get bumped into something while you are moving the vac. 

For $250, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect some basic level of durability, especially when the replacement part was $60+ (IIRC) (again, see Kapex dead motor threads).

I understand they have a metal cyclone (an upcharge) that prevents this.

 

[RKA]

I would tend to agree re: Oneida.  For what you get, they charge a princely sum.  You would think the parts would withstand a little rough handling, it's not like it fell off the roof.  I'm looking for a larger stationary HEPA system and as it is im a little turned off that the instructions portray it as some kind of DIY project (except the price doesn't reflect a DIY project).  Stories like this are helpful, so thank you for sharing your experience.

 

[grbmds]

[member=8843]Kodi Crescent[/member] Nope. Just a hobbyist. Guess I was just lucky then. Still, if it were me, I'd try again with a contact at a higher level. Doesn't always work, but it does quite often.

 

[Kodi Crescent]

[member=8843]Kodi Crescent[/member] Nope. Just a hobbyist. Guess I was just lucky then. Still, if it were me, I'd try again with a contact at a higher level. Doesn't always work, but it does quite often.

I appreciate that.  Perhaps I had a bad day and caught the lady on a bad day as well.

I've been very happy with my Festool long life bag that I bought instead!  Never tears, no matter how many times I bump the vacuum into something or knock it over.  [wink]