Dust extractor question

[Fed]

I am new to FOG and Festool.  I am a hobbyist, and my workload if quite small.  I am using Ipe (Brazilian hardwood) mainly. I will be cutting with a Dewalt 745 table saw, and sanding with hand sanders, as well a drilling with a 1930s Delta drill press (I love that machine). I know the risks are small for my situation, but I work in the basement of my house, and worry about the health consequences of Ipe's fine dust.

I also solder for electronics work.  I would like to pump the fumes outside somehow.

I am thinking of getting the Festool mini (for financial reasons) and a cyclone (to take care of the large pieces).  I have several questions:
Does the mini have all the great features of the larger units, such as low noise, slow startup for the connected tools, auto off for connected tools, variable speed, full certified Hepa protection, self cleaning, and antistatic hoses?
Will my table saw fit the mini?
Can I add a carbon filter on top of the Hepa filter, so that I can use the mini to suck and filter the soldering fumes? I would like to have a blower exhaust to pipe the fumes outside, but it looks like this is now possible with Festool, right?

I know I am asking a lot from the mini, but I am exploring various options, and this one looks best to me so far.

Thanks for your help in advance.

Fed

 

[ear3]

Welcome to the FOG.  The differences between the Mini/Midi and the CT26-46 are just capacity and CFM.  Otherwise it has all of the features you mention as far as AS hose compatibility, autostart, variable speed, etc.  I would be curious to see if the Mini were powerful enough to handle table saw dust, though.  To hook it up to the table saw you would have to use a normal hose or an adapter, as the Festool hoses are metric.

As far as the extra filtering, I would think that would have to be outside the machine -- the Festool filters are proprietary and fit tightly in the internal space, leaving little room for something else besides the bag.  But someone else should chime in who's actually dealt with the modifications you're thinking of.  As far as the blower/exhaust option is concerned, I thought that feature was only available on the CT-Sys.

I am new to FOG and Festool.  I am a hobbyist, and my workload if quite small.  I am using Ipe (Brazilian hardwood) mainly. I will be cutting with a Dewalt 745 table saw, and sanding with hand sanders, as well a drilling with a 1930s Delta drill press (I love that machine). I know the risks are small for my situation, but I work in the basement of my house, and worry about the health consequences of Ipe's fine dust.

I also solder for electronics work.  I would like to pump the fumes outside somehow.

I am thinking of getting the Festool mini (for financial reasons) and a cyclone (to take care of the large pieces).  I have several questions:
Does the mini have all the great features of the larger units, such as low noise, slow startup for the connected tools, auto off for connected tools, variable speed, full certified Hepa protection, self cleaning, and antistatic hoses?
Will my table saw fit the mini?
Can I add a carbon filter on top of the Hepa filter, so that I can use the mini to suck and filter the soldering fumes? I would like to have a blower exhaust to pipe the fumes outside, but it looks like this is now possible with Festool, right?

I know I am asking a lot from the mini, but I am exploring various options, and this one looks best to me so far.

Thanks for your help in advance.

Fed

 

[MattrYYC]

Welcome to the FOG.  The differences between the Mini/Midi and the CT26-46 are just capacity and CFM.  Otherwise it has all of the features you mention as far as AS hose compatibility, autostart, variable speed, etc.  I would be curious to see if the Mini were powerful enough to handle table saw dust, though.  To hook it up to the table saw you would have to use a normal hose or an adapter, as the Festool hoses are metric.

As far as the extra filtering, I would think that would have to be outside the machine -- the Festool filters are proprietary and fit tightly in the internal space, leaving little room for something else besides the bag.  But someone else should chime in who's actually dealt with the modifications you're thinking of.  As far as the blower/exhaust option is concerned, I thought that feature was only available on the CT-Sys.

I am new to FOG and Festool.  I am a hobbyist, and my workload if quite small.  I am using Ipe (Brazilian hardwood) mainly. I will be cutting with a Dewalt 745 table saw, and sanding with hand sanders, as well a drilling with a 1930s Delta drill press (I love that machine). I know the risks are small for my situation, but I work in the basement of my house, and worry about the health consequences of Ipe's fine dust.

I also solder for electronics work.  I would like to pump the fumes outside somehow.

I am thinking of getting the Festool mini (for financial reasons) and a cyclone (to take care of the large pieces).  I have several questions:
Does the mini have all the great features of the larger units, such as low noise, slow startup for the connected tools, auto off for connected tools, variable speed, full certified Hepa protection, self cleaning, and antistatic hoses?
Will my table saw fit the mini?
Can I add a carbon filter on top of the Hepa filter, so that I can use the mini to suck and filter the soldering fumes? I would like to have a blower exhaust to pipe the fumes outside, but it looks like this is now possible with Festool, right?

I know I am asking a lot from the mini, but I am exploring various options, and this one looks best to me so far.

Thanks for your help in advance.

Fed

If I'm not mistaken the Mini/Midi were upgraded a few years ago to have the same power / CFM as all other units, if you are adding a cyclone you shouldn't be too worried about capacity so it sounds like a good fit to have something portable where you need it.

I work in a basement shop as well and have a CT26, it works very well. I also have a Dylos meter to measure dust / particulate and find my table saw (similar Jobsite saw to the DeWalt) to be the largest creator of fine dust in my workflow, the TS55 is a little better, but still it creates a bit that shows up on the meter. I would recommend an air cleaner, I made my own but there are a number of others you can buy relatively cheaply. I also do some electronics work and have never noticed the fumes to be that bad away from the source but I imagine the air cleaner would help with this.

 

[AlexThePalex]

I don't think the Mini would work very well for your soldering fumes. I think that if you add a carbon filter you are left with very little suction.

 

[RustE]

I personally would take the Midi over the Mini for the capacity.  The 27mm hose on the Midi might not be large enough to handle the amount of dust generated by the table saw.

The two threads below indicate the 36mm hose will fit the Midi.  Keep in mind that the 36mm hose will need some space above the Midi because it does not have a 90° connector like the 27mm hose.http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-how-to/ct-midi-hose-question/http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/36mm-as-hose-on-ct-midi/

If that is still not enough capacity or capability, then also take a look at the new Fein Turbo X extractors.  I mention this to keep your budget about the same versus spending more on the CT26.

For the soldering fumes, have you considered one of the bench top fume collectors?  Have a look around the Newark Electronics website to get an idea of what is available.  Basically, these machines draw the fumes across a carbon filter and then return the air to the room.  You could probably make a deflector from a piece of Kydex or a sheet of aluminum to keep the exhaust from blowing dust around the room.

 

[mike_aa]

[member=64464]Fed[/member]
Some years ago, while spraying oil based paint on some trim in my home, I used some carbon impregnated filter fabric taped over the input of a Jet air cleaner propped up on sawhorses.  I did wear a personal respirator, but this setup did help quite a bit in trapping the fumes and keeping them from circulating.  IIRC it was about a 1/4 inch thick and not too expensive.  I bought it by the foot from a local HVAC supplier so unfortunately I don't have a link.  Might be worth trying to track some of this down to experiment with.

Mike A.

 

[leakyroof]

Although some people have used a Festool Vac hooked up to a table saw, they aren't designed to handle that size of a machine- You'll get better results with a traditional Dust Collector and the nominal 4" sized hose hooked up to a Table Saw.  You can research Air Volume and Air Velocity for Dust Collection, and see what the Pros and Cons are. A small vac that's hooked up to a dust port very near the saw blade or guard however, is how some people add to the dust collection of a table saw, with their 4" dust collection port lower down in the cabinet of the saw or a makeshift dust collection area on a Portable saw
Having said that, you WANT very good filtering attached to any Dust Collector you end up with when working with Exotic Woods that pose a long term allergy risk or worse. So, do not expect the usual 30 Micron or 5 micron filter bag that most of these Dust Collectors come with to be of much use with Exotic Woods- You'll end up throwing very fine dust out of the bag esp. on start up of the dust collector, very messy at the least.
  I think the Bench Top solder Fume Extractor or something similar is the way to go with soldering. Grizzly has sold some Benchtop units in the past that you could add some filtering to as well. They might sell offer something along those lines...Here we go, they still do.....
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Benchtop-Dual-Fan-Dust-Filter/G9955

 

[Peter_C]

I would recommend adding your location IE USA, or another country.

If it were me I would rig up a "range hood" to remove the fumes. Can get one for around $20 on Ebay, if not free or near free from someones remodel. Craigslist might have something.  Restore (Habitat For Humanity) might have something which helps them out. This would be very similar to what chemists work with to keep the fumes away from themselves. Shouldn't be too hard to make the hose exit somewhere either permanently or thru plywood etc.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nu-Tone-30-Range-Hood-RL6230BC-5701N-/152472488608?hash=item2380118aa0:g:XaIAAOSwCU1YsEke

A CT dust collector will work fine for dust collection on a portable table saw. Use a full size hose IE 2 1/2".

 

[Fed]

Thanks, Edward, for pointing out the CT-sys has the blower option. I guess what I would be missing is the variable speed, lower suction, and a smaller bag.  I wonder if the small bag would be sufficient, considering my hobbyist status and that I will be using a cyclone as well.  Any ideas if it would be ok?

MattrYYC pointed out "If I'm not mistaken the Mini/Midi were upgraded a few years ago to have the same power / CFM as all other units, if you are adding a cyclone you shouldn't be too worried about capacity so it sounds like a good fit to have something portable where you need it."
But it doesn't look like the CT-sys was updated.  It seems to be on sale here in Canada now, so maybe it will be updated.
Do you think the CT-sys would suck enough for the table saw, with the cyclone in tow?

RustE mentioned "The 27mm hose on the Midi might not be large enough to handle the amount of dust generated by the table saw."
Does that limit which model I would be able to use?

Leakyroof stated "Although some people have used a Festool Vac hooked up to a table saw, they aren't designed to handle that size of a machine"
Is that because of the amount of sawdust or the need for more suction.  If the former, the cyclone should take care of that.  If the latter, what suction do you think you would need?

PeterC stated "A CT dust collector will work fine for dust collection on a portable table saw. Use a full size hose IE 2 1/2"."
Is that including the CT-sys, or just the bigger models.

As far as the soldering fumes, I think I am sticking with sending the air outside somehow, either with the CT-sys or other similar device.

Thanks everyone for your help!

 

[leakyroof]

Thanks, Edward, for pointing out the CT-sys has the blower option. I guess what I would be missing is the variable speed, lower suction, and a smaller bag.  I wonder if the small bag would be sufficient, considering my hobbyist status and that I will be using a cyclone as well.  Any ideas if it would be ok?

MattrYYC pointed out "If I'm not mistaken the Mini/Midi were upgraded a few years ago to have the same power / CFM as all other units, if you are adding a cyclone you shouldn't be too worried about capacity so it sounds like a good fit to have something portable where you need it."
But it doesn't look like the CT-sys was updated.  It seems to be on sale here in Canada now, so maybe it will be updated.
Do you think the CT-sys would suck enough for the table saw, with the cyclone in tow?

RustE mentioned "The 27mm hose on the Midi might not be large enough to handle the amount of dust generated by the table saw."
Does that limit which model I would be able to use?

Leakyroof stated "Although some people have used a Festool Vac hooked up to a table saw, they aren't designed to handle that size of a machine"
Is that because of the amount of sawdust or the need for more suction.  If the former, the cyclone should take care of that.  If the latter, what suction do you think you would need?

PeterC stated "A CT dust collector will work fine for dust collection on a portable table saw. Use a full size hose IE 2 1/2"."
Is that including the CT-sys, or just the bigger models.

As far as the soldering fumes, I think I am sticking with sending the air outside somehow, either with the CT-sys or other similar device.

Thanks everyone for your help!

. Table saws are generally rated for needing 350-400 CFM for dust collection, that's beyond what a CT Extractor can deliver. Please leave thoughts of hooking up a CT-Sys Vac to a Table Saw far far away..... [eek] Neat Vac, but VERY tiny in capacity and has less CFM than the larger vacs.  This where that battle of Cubic Feet per Minute versus Velocity starts to really matter based on type of dust particulate that you're trying to extract.
Saw dust is heavier than sanding dust. So, you need to get what will work with a table saw and not leave you disappointed or working in an unhealthy mode.
Portable Table saws are often harder to capture dust out of them depending on how they're designed since they may or may not have air losses that are different from a traditional cabinet table Saw.
Fine Woodworking did a nice article a few years back about tuning up different table saws to improve dust collection. They covered Portable, Hybrid and Cabinet if I remember right.

 

[RustE]

...
RustE mentioned "The 27mm hose on the Midi might not be large enough to handle the amount of dust generated by the table saw."
Does that limit which model I would be able to use?
...

The cross-section of the 27mm hose will probably be too small for the amount of dust you need to move for a table saw.  The smallest that I would want is the 36mm hose and the 50mm hose might be a better option.  I do not know if the 50mm hose can be used on the Mini or Midi since I have only seen the 50mm hose on larger machines.  I am also not sure how a Dust Deputy or other cyclone system fits into this discussion.

The photos I found of the DeWalt 745 do not show an obvious means for dust collection.  Are you planning to set this table saw in some sort of enclosure?  Or is the plan to collect dust using a hood suspended over the blade?

 

[Fed]

There is a dust port underneath facing back.  These pictures don't show much, but it is there.https://forum.canadianwoodworking.com/filedata/fetch?id=952850&d=1367011469
http://www.frecuenciaprimera.com/dewalt-dw745-table-saw-review-2017/

 

[leakyroof]

There is a dust port underneath facing back.  These pictures don't show much, but it is there.https://forum.canadianwoodworking.com/filedata/fetch?id=952850&d=1367011469
http://www.frecuenciaprimera.com/dewalt-dw745-table-saw-review-2017/

. What size is it?  I agree with RustE, 36mm min. or better yet 50mm.  A cyclone would GREATLY save you on bags filling up in a vacuum if you go that route.
To give you an idea, my Delta Unisaw has a 4" port at the bottom of its cabinet, and a 2" hose that's tee-fitting off that 4" line closer to the Single Stage Dust Collector that's my system. The 4" hose keeps the interior of my Saw super clean, that 2" hose which sits RIGHT above the Saw blade in a aftermarket over-arm blade guard struggles to catch the forward spray off the blade.... [embarassed]
I've tried hooking up one of my Festool Vacs to that 2" port , and the dust collection capture is much better than when hooked up to my usual DC arrangement. But I don't want to dedicate a vac to the table saw , so I don't......  [smile]

 

[flair woodworks]

Interesting thread.

Comparing current CT models, the CT Mini and Midi have softly less suction than the CT 26, 36, and 48. The CT SYS has less suction still, no variable speed, and limited capacity. The CT Sys does however have an exhaust port that fits a hose, so you could attach a hose and direct the exhaust outside the room.

Although not ideal for use with a table saw, I think that you will find that a 50 mm Festool hose will be your best option if you do wish to connect a CT. The fittings plug directly into the port of the SawStop Jobsite Saw, so I suspect you will find the same with your DeWalt.

If not for your soldering, I think that the Mini or Midi would be a good choice for you.

I would consider skipping the cyclone, as it will reduce the suction.

 

[RustE]

...
Fine Woodworking did a nice article a few years back about tuning up different table saws to improve dust collection. They covered Portable, Hybrid and Cabinet if I remember right.

Fine Woodworking, Issue No. 205, May/June 2009
The article has tips for contractor's, hybrid, and cabinet table saws.  One could leverage these tips to improve a portable table saw as well.

 

[antss]

CT-SYS and a cyclone are a non starter in my opinion. It's just not powerful enough.

A dewalt 745 or any other jobsite saw are not cabinet saws - they don't have 4" ports and the blade shrouds are designed much differently.  They tend to shoot the dust out of the backside instead of trying to catch it at the bottom like on a contractor/cabinet saw. Many come with a bag to attach to the 2.5" port - I think everyone will agree that a vac is better than that.

A shop vac will be fine on these types of saws. Sure a 500cfm + single stage dust collector capable of supporting a 4" hose would be better.  But not choked down to a 2.5" port. And modifying a jobsite saw to accept a 4" hose is not practical. Nor is carrying around that size collector.  Those that do , also carry a cabinet saw and a shaper and a jointer and a planer too.

So, a shop vac with a jobsite saw is adequate given the constraints of the system in general.  A ct-sys is not a good choice for a saw or router or a planer in my opinion.

[member=9555]Chris Wong[/member] - do you know when FT down rated the mini midi ?  I though , like others here, that they had the same rating .  At debut they were lower, then FT upgrade them later to be the same. Now different again ?  I always thought they played fast and loose with the spex.  I also think the tapered hose was an attempt to boost performance on those too.  Did the orig. mini midi have the tapered hoses ?

 

[leakyroof]

CT-SYS and a cyclone are a non starter in my opinion. It's just not powerful enough.

A dewalt 745 or any other jobsite saw are not cabinet saws - they don't have 4" ports and the blade shrouds are designed much differently.  They tend to shoot the dust out of the backside instead of trying to catch it at the bottom like on a contractor/cabinet saw. Many come with a bag to attach to the 2.5" port - I think everyone will agree that a vac is better than that.

A shop vac will be fine on these types of saws. Sure a 500cfm + single stage dust collector capable of supporting a 4" hose would be better.  But not choked down to a 2.5" port. And modifying a jobsite saw to accept a 4" hose is not practical. Nor is carrying around that size collector.  Those that do , also carry a cabinet saw and a shaper and a jointer and a planer too.

So, a shop vac with a jobsite saw is adequate given the constraints of the system in general.  A ct-sys is not a good choice for a saw or router or a planer in my opinion.

[member=9555]Chris Wong[/member] - do you know when FT down rated the mini midi ?  I though , like others here, that they had the same rating .  At debut they were lower, then FT upgrade them later to be the same. Now different again ?  I always thought they played fast and loose with the spex.  I also think the tapered hose was an attempt to boost performance on those too.  Did the orig. mini midi have the tapered hoses ?

. I have a number of smaller machines that are hooked up to my 4" DC hoses via adapters that fit their smaller 3", 2 1/2" or even 2" ports.  No choking or issues with this observed.
The one common DC issue for Woodworkers is that we under- buy on the size system we really need , and spend time and money catching up.
If you go the vacuum route, you still would want a Cyclone to prevent unnecessary filling of the vac's bag.

 

[jacko9]

I have the CT22 which I use with my Festool sanders, domino joiners and Kapex miter saw.  I have a Oneida V-3000 for my table saw and even that system is not quite up to total dust collection without an additional over the blade collection port.  Working with Ipe I would be very cautious cutting on the table saw even wearing a mask since so much of the fine dust will be in the air (and the festool CT system is just not designed to move that much air for a table saw) in my opinion.  I would get the largest CT extractor you can afford for your other tools just to save clean out time.

Jack

 

[antss]

Leaky - it's not a debate or discussion, it's simply physics.

Try breathing through a soda straw and the problem will become obvious.

Sure, you can rig up adapters and leave other blast gates open to draw in enough air so your cyclone's fan isn't starved and burn up your motor.  But trying to suck that much air through a jobsite saw's 2.5" outlet isn't going to happen on this planet. 

And like I said earlier , modifying one of their shrouds to accept 4" pipe is not practical in the least. Hence the shop vac and the 2.5" port - match the tool to the job at hand.  Of course there is usually more than one tool that will accomplish a job and cabinet saw with a 4" dust port and cyclone would be waaaay better than dewalt 745 and shop vac. It'll cut faster better and more cleanly, but the problem arises when you want to pack it all up and take it to the next job site.

 

[leakyroof]

Leaky - it's not a debate or discussion, it's simply physics.

Try breathing through a soda straw and the problem will become obvious.

Sure, you can rig up adapters and leave other blast gates open to draw in enough air so your cyclone's fan isn't starved and burn up your motor.  But trying to suck that much air through a jobsite saw's 2.5" outlet isn't going to happen on this planet. 

And like I said earlier , modifying one of their shrouds to accept 4" pipe is not practical in the least. Hence the shop vac and the 2.5" port - match the tool to the job at hand.  Of course there is usually more than one tool that will accomplish a job and cabinet saw with a 4" dust port and cyclone would be waaaay better than dewalt 745 and shop vac. It'll cut faster better and more cleanly, but the problem arises when you want to pack it all up and take it to the next job site.

. First, I understand your point about airflow/restrictions . 2nd, the OP states this is for their basement shop with that portable Saw. 
If they decide to leave the shop and head to a job site and actually still want DC with that saw at the site, then I whole heartedly support a vacuum .
You also seem to gloss over the statement I made about many woodworkers buying a DC system for present needs only versus one with expansion ability to the future.
So, I stand by my remarks that a single stage unit with a much better filter versus a porous cloth bag is what gets my vote for their question.
I only have a 1 1/2HP DC unit with a pleated filter. I haven't lost a motor or otherwise damaged it since I bought it in 2005.  For anything that I'm not running with one of my 3 Festool Vacs, the Single Stage DC unit does the Bench Top or Stationary machines as needed with the exception of a Jet 1" X 42" Belt Combo Sander.
Not to trying to fight with you or anyone else on this... [blink]