Ease of use of Domino 500

[Cincinnati]

I just took delivery on a Domino 500. I looked at this for years, but as a hobbyist I couldn't justify the cost because there were other things I needed first. After deciding I wanted to build several sets of louvred shutters, I finally pulled the trigger.

I also recently got the notice on the Woodpeckers One Time Tool - the Offset Base for the DF500. I easily decided I don't think the outrigger system is useful to me.

I'm wondering about how easy the DF500 is to keep in place and stable during the cut as it comes from the factory. For those of you who have used it regularly, does the Festool design need some help with a larger platform/fence? Can I do everything with the Woodpecker fence that I can do as the DF 500 comes from the factory?

I discovered red anodized aluminum has the identical effect on me as red Kryptonite has on Superman - I lose all my ability to resist and I immediately want it without inhibition.  Had they put this in a matching grey systainer, they probably would have hopelessly broken me. Thankfully I was able to resist.

If there is a stability issue with the DF500 that will be improved with this bigger fence, I'd consider it again. My gut is telling me that if a larger platform were needed, Festool would likely have either changed the design or offered an accessory.

(May I add that green plastic also has a similar effect on me as green Krytonite has on Superman. I'm not saying I'm Superman, just pointing out two similarities and the fact that he & I have never been seen together!)

 

[zapdafish]

grats on the domino.

I'm a hobbyiest too and haven't had any issues. For items that are narrower than the plate I just cut a scrap piece for support.

I think the domiplate is one of the better value aftermarket accessories.
http://www.festoolproducts.com/sene...XVOzKQwR6qBWG6HapA7szOMVo6CNDACy2ahoCBxPw_wcB

 

[ear3]

The Domino is already pretty stable -- the exception is when you are doing vertical plunges, for which Festool provides a plastic base widener in its kit.  But this doesn't solve the problem completely, which is why Seneca's Domiplate is a pretty essential accessory (also useful for doing centered plunges in 3/4 and 1/2 nominal ply).  I've never used the Domino offset base from Woodpecker, but my impression is that it's one of their more luxury accessories rather than a necessary add-on.

 

[ShadyMaple]

I'm a new Domino user as well.  I've been looking at the woodpecker's system, and I happen to think the outrigger might be useful for me.

I do have a domiplate that came with my (used) domino.  What is really nice about the plate as opposed to the festool system is the rigidity.  The festool fence can come unlocked if you set it.

What kind of stinks about the plate is that it only has 2 offsets - 1/2 and 3/4. 

The biggest pitfall I've run into on the domino is making sure you reference the 'outside' edges on the boards you want to join - otherwise if it doesn't center you don't get a flush connection.  99% of the time, I'm just using the pins or a pencil mark and it gets me pretty close. 

Can I do without the woodpecker system?  Sure.  But it looks a lot nicer than the seneca system, and it stores in a systainer, so that will probably be the clincher for me.

 

[justaguy]

I purchased one of the offset bases from the first run and sold it. The base only works on the ends or edges of the boards. If you are joining boards to make a table top that is great. Joining two boards end to end to extend the length also great. Want to join two boards at a 90 degree angle.. you can only use the base to cut the slots in one of the two boards. Building a plywood case for a cabinet.. you can only us the base on two of the four panels.

The top part of the offset base keeps you from using the Domino in the vertical position. If you remove the top part of the base then look at the round area on the lower part of the base where the spacer attaches. That round area keeps you from using the Domino in the vertical position even if you remove the top section.

There is a reason all of the pictures and videos show the offset base being used on board ends or edges. That is the way it can be used.

 

[geoffshep]

I'm a fairly new hobbyist with the Domino too, but already I can see its strengths.  I get the best results be being very careful about placement, and putting most of the effort into holding it steady, and hard up against the reference surface and/or the face of the workpiece, and then making the plunge slowly and steadily - which I have to make myself do slowly despite wanting to rush to see the effect!  ie more effort on holding it steady than plunging.

The biggest part, is checking and double checking you reference the correct surface, and make sure the depth is correct.  I mark it all carefully and keep all the parts logically positioned, and draw little ovals where I plan the mortices to be.  I've practiced on things that really don't deserve domino joints (like raised beds!) just to make sure I'm getting it right - but I already have a mortice hole in the top of my MFT [embarassed].

 

[geoffshep]

Want to join two boards at a 90 degree angle.. you can only use the base to cut the slots in one of the two boards.

It took me while to get to grips with this method of joining boards at 90 degrees in the middle of another piece, but I just built a small shelf unit this way and I'm pleased to say all the slots ended up in the right place and it all went together square!
=1m46s

 

[justaguy]

geoffshep - I think maybe I did not make myself clear. The method you describe works fine with the Domino and festool stops. I use that method regullary.

The issue is that with the Woodpecker offset base installed you cannot place the Domino in the position that you show in the video at 3:00 minute and 4:50 minutes..

 

[AIPDX]

Cincinatti, let me add my two cents to this discussion. I own Domino 500 and used it on a non-professional level as you do for several sub=projects which were a part of my home remodel. I also purchased the Woodpeckers Off-set base during the previous production run and with some regret sold it a couple of months later when my remodeling budget got a little tight.

The Woodpeckers off-set base is indeed a little bit larger than the Festool tool base, but not by very much. There may be some improvement to tool stability due to its larger size, but it is just incremental, maybe 15% or 20%. I might even go as far as saying that the benefits of a larger base are offset by an inferior design of the handle on the base which is just the standard Woodpecker's component, sort of a large wingnut rather than a real handle.

The main purposes of that base are two: a) help  US users to cut mortises in exact location in non-metric materials (e.g., 15/32 or 3/4"), and b) to attach outriggers for semi-automation of repeatable cutting in the same locations.

For non-metric materials, it is not the only solution, there are (I think) a couple of after-market options in the $70-$80 range. The woodpecker's solution is very stable and quite versatile, but requires some set-up time to change material thickness as one has to physically remove 4 screws and replace spacers.

Outriggers are great but they are only useful for production work, e.g., when one has to cut mortises in parts of the cabinets all day long. You set the tool one time and keep on going, panel after panel. Also, if you use full length of them, you need lots of space and lots of support.

If you are joining two boards, you can get away without outriggers quite easily. You put the boards side by side and draw pencil lines across both boards at the future location of mortises. Then you align the center mark on your domino's scale with these lines and cut the mortises.

Stability is not a problem, but you have to have a strong steady non-dominant hand (left for me) to press the tool down, and you have to develop a light touch with your other, dominant hand (right in my case) which you use to plunge the bit into the wood. The motor of the tool which doubles-up as a handle for the "tool plunging hand" has a lot of leverage over the tool due to its length. If you jerk it sideways or up/down during cutting, you most likely will break the cutter (don't ask me how I know) or will move the tool off its position and your cut will not be precise. Same applies to reverse motion, when you finished cutting, you should let the cutter go out of the mortise while keeping the tool steady. We have that urge to grab the tool with our dominant hand at that moment to move it to the next location, but this is not the role of the dominant hand with this tool. This is where stability issues and concerns may come from. It takes some attention and practice to develop the skill to use your dominant hand in a very gentle manner, only forward and back in the direction of mortise. Once you got the idea, it works really well. Whether or not you are breaking the cutters is a good indication. I think I went through two broken ones before I learned.

 

[curiousdork]

The Domino is already pretty stable -- the exception is when you are doing vertical plunges, for which Festool provides a plastic base widener in its kit.  But this doesn't solve the problem completely, which is why Seneca's Domiplate is a pretty essential accessory (also useful for doing centered plunges in 3/4 and 1/2 nominal ply).  I've never used the Domino offset base from Woodpecker, but my impression is that it's one of their more luxury accessories rather than a necessary add-on.

Have you any experience with Seneca's DF500 Imperial thickness gauge?  I'm looking into springing for one and was wondering if anyone in FOG has bought and used one.  Maybe [member=59331]TSO Products[/member] will make their own version? 

 

[Klemm]

[member=64276]curiousdork[/member]  - we have a Seneca Domiplate as the only non Festool accessory with our DF-500. I wish the function of that accessory did not involve having to use the DF-500 upside down.
Yes we have looked at the DF-500 to see if there are any compelling unmet needs. One thing became clear and talking with a good number of experienced DF-500 users: centering the mortise on the thickness appears to be unnecessary for two reasons:
1. thickness of material of the same nominal thickness can still vary - making the "centering" reliability questionable at best
2. By always referencing off the same surface (regardless of slight thickness variations) you'll always end up with a very goo match.

About the Woodpecker accessory: I was surprised when I looked at the knob they use for such an essential function on the DF-500. Couldn't see ourselves ever using such a design- and cost shortcut. User interface has to be right - always.
Hans

I'll be interesed in other commments including in referencee to my raply here.

 

[UncleJoe]

[member=9212]Cincinnati[/member] I am also a hobby user so let me add what I have picked up over the past couple of years. First, when you first get the domino plan on spending some time getting acquainted. Take some scrap 3/4 ply and draw some lines and practice lining up your dominos. Join 2 pieces of 3/4 as you would building a cabinet then do it as you would be adding a center shelf. It took me a while and watching some Youtube videos to really understand how easy it works....if you do it right. Big hint here. Clearly label the "reference side" on each piece when you start. Now I don't even think about it for more than a second but when you first start out if you don't keep a sharp eye on which is the reference you will find all your joints off by just a little bit. The domino when used properly is dead on accurate.

As to woodpeckers, I own a bunch of that red stuff. I really like the design of their plate but I bought the one from Seneca when I first got my Domino so no need for another. Could a hobby guy be happy with just a plain domino and no add on's? hell yes.

As to the spacers. I have not really found a need for them. I have the original Festool ones and I used them once and they are just not stout enough and that could lead to compounding errors. I make marks on both boards and off I go. I do not have a reason for exact spacing of dominos in my work pieces.

 

[Neal W]

I am a hobbyist as well.  And I really like the Domiplate.  I use it frequently especially when cutting slots in 3/4" material. As the others say, always reference the same face.  But the height won't change, and it will be in the same spot.  Using the tool upside down doesn't really bother me. 

I do (did) use the outriggers (broke one) when cutting slots for cabinets.  It was more repetitive work, and it allowed for very consistent placement. 

Having a good hold on the tool with your Non plunging hand is essential. 
Dust collection is essential. 

Biggest thing (for me) is to take my time and think about what I'm doing.  It is not a tool I can just "go to town" with.  When I don't think about each cut, I start making mistakes. 

I've found it easiest, if I don't grab the tool by the handle to plunge it, but rather grab it near the very end of the tool usually around the plugit connection and just push gently. 

Also if you are looking for repeatability do some searches here, there is a good solution using the domiplate, a t track and some flag stops.  I'll see if I can find it.  Far less money than the red stuff.

 

[grbmds]

In general, for me, the DF Offset set isn't a necessity as the Domino works just fine without any non-Festool accessories. However, I do own it and I have found that the base and spacers improves my capability to plunge accurately and without side to side movement. I wouldn't buy the outriggers if I had it to do over again. They just don't improve any work I have done and I really don't use them.

Centering the slot in any thickness of wood is usually not a necessity. I only have had one instance where centering was a requirement. However, the spacers are very accurate and get the Dominos right in the middle of standard wood thicknesses, but again, it's usually not a necessity.

I'd try the Domino with a significant number of test pieces and see what you think. After you get used to using it (usually very quickly) you may determine that any additional accessories are a waste of money. If you have problems preventing some slight side to side shifting while plunging, the DF Offset Base and spacers will definitely help with that, but there are probably other accessories that would help at a lower price.

 

[clark_fork]

[member=64276]curiousdork[/member]  -

I'll be interesed in other commments including in referencee to my raply here.

Two basic Domino 500 unmet needs.

1. RTS has plans for a self-centering add-on. It is based on a sliding cable. This replaces a first version from some years ago. There may be a better solution and one that can come to market expeditiously  The existing trim stop takes some adjustment to work. A self-centering add-on would benefit users when only one Domino is required.

1. The existing Festool cross stop is too flimsy and too short. If the Woodpecker 500 offset base had used the existing V slots for their outriggers, the off-set base could have been used at 90°. What is needed is a new cross stop that fits into the V slots, can be tightened and is longer with stops that don't crowd the locking mechanism. Festool's lock lever is on the top and crowds the pin stop.

A bonus need would be to somehow have an extension of the side block that locates the center line of the cutter. There is a little space there that might allow an extension to more readily see when you are hitting the horizontal center line. Another bonus need which is probably more of a DIY project is to have a tool rest for the Domino to allow an easier means to make height adjustments. I find myself in a wrestling match trying to trip levers and find the right height setting.

Lastly, Festool needs to build the next series with a light over the center line and deepen the existing center line on the faceplate.

 

[Tezzer]

The cross stop is rarely used for me (and most Domi owners I know) I only use it when I want to come up around 220mm for a stretcher of shelf for a hall table, but using it for panels for me is useless as the the first plunge on one board and the very first plunge on the corresponding surfaces are on the tight setting, and the rest on the lose setting. And using the cross stop that way is all but useless.

 

[pettyconstruction]

I also have the domino 500 and the Seneca adaptor ,they seem to compliment each other real well.
I can see the woodpeckers version as being good also,to be able to set different heights accurately.
The out rigger set up maybe helpful ,but a 54" one seems overkill.

To answer your original question ,the domino is great with out the accessories.
For me ,I like the one I have (Seneca)

PS. If you buy the woodpeckers tool , you could probably sell it for all you money if you don't like it. Lots of people miss the deadline and then want the part.
Charlie 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[ear3]

[member=64276]curiousdork[/member]  I have the Seneca imperial thickness gauge.  Meh.  As someone has already remarked it is not critical to the joinery that the mortise be perfectly centered on the board, so that restricts the utility of the imperial gauge becomes to when you need to do precise offsets (say b/w aprons and leg), and you're not comfortable fudging the metric equivalent.  It has proved useful for me a few times, but I wouldn't say it has been worth the money yet.  It is also limited in that the presets only go up to centering on a 1 1/8" board.  You get close to 1 1/2" by registering the fence off the top of the gauge, but it's not true 1 1/2" centering.  The lack of a 1 1/2" preset, along with the significant cost of what is basically just a glorified piece of plastic, led another FOG user to create his own version (which has all the presets of the Seneca one PLUS the 1 1/2"), which you can purchase from Amazon for less than 1/2 the price:https://www.amazon.com/Imperial-Thickness-Gauge-Festool-Domino/dp/B01ASBQQ8K

Can't speak to whether it's offsets are true, since I already had the Seneca version when this came out, but given the simplicity of the design I can't imagine there would be any material difference with the more expensive Seneca version.

The Domino is already pretty stable -- the exception is when you are doing vertical plunges, for which Festool provides a plastic base widener in its kit.  But this doesn't solve the problem completely, which is why Seneca's Domiplate is a pretty essential accessory (also useful for doing centered plunges in 3/4 and 1/2 nominal ply).  I've never used the Domino offset base from Woodpecker, but my impression is that it's one of their more luxury accessories rather than a necessary add-on.

Have you any experience with Seneca's DF500 Imperial thickness gauge?  I'm looking into springing for one and was wondering if anyone in FOG has bought and used one.  Maybe [member=59331]TSO Products[/member] will make their own version? 

 

[ear3]

I sold my cross stops after a few months.  I don't think they're necessary unless you're doing production work.  And when you're doing edge joining, with a lot of dominos in a row, it makes sense, as you said, to use the wider setting on all of the mortises except the first, in which case you don't have to be absolutely precise in the mortise placement anyway, and can get away with, for example, having drawn your pencil line on the left side of the hash mark on your tape measure on one board, and on the right side on the other one. 

The cross stop is rarely used for me (and most Domi owners I know) I only use it when I want to come up around 220mm for a stretcher of shelf for a hall table, but using it for panels for me is useless as the the first plunge on one board and the very first plunge on the corresponding surfaces are on the tight setting, and the rest on the lose setting. And using the cross stop that way is all but useless.

 

[cpw]

I like the cross stops so that I can use the paddle to align the first mortise; and then just go down the line for a cabinet butt joint.  I find this easier than having to make the marks.  I use "precise" mortises for the mortises perpendicular to the reference edge; and the middle setting for the other side.  To make them line up, I have to plow out normal sized mortises, for all but the last one; switch to the medium size, then plow the last one, and go back in reverse order widening them.  That way the cross stops will index into the same place on both boards.

The negatives about my workflow is that I do need to remember to set the mortise width before proceeding; or I'll end up with mortises that don't line up.  The other thing that I need to be cogniscent of is setting the depth to 15mm on the sides vs. 25mm to avoid blowing out the sides (using 6mmx40mm Dominos in 3/4" plywood).