Electrical circuit took a day off

[ryanjg117]

Woke up on Saturday and observed my garage door openers weren't working. Realized the new outlets I put in for my new jackshaft openers were dead. Using my voltage tester, I noticed the Romex I tapped for the new outlets was also dead. Unfortunately, it goes into a wall in the garage and I don't know exactly where it goes from there, but I know we have a few other outlets on the same circuit going all the way into our living room. I walked around and it appeared all outlets on this circuit were operating fine. Pretty stumped as I haven't made any changes that could have caused this... No new appliances on the circuit, no new outlets except the ones I added for these openers weeks ago, and no history of intermittent electrical issues.

Went to the main panel and popped off the cover. Looked good and my voltage tester showed the breaker on the circuit was delivering power just fine. I did hear some faint buzzing, about once every ten seconds, but no way I could really know what component in the panel was causing this. It's an early 80s GE panel with no mains switch off (I guess it has a series of top mounted breakers that need to be switched off, not really familiar with this style).

Out of ideas, I went to the hardware store and purchased a few replacement 15a breakers. Was planning to install them this morning when I walked into the garage and, well, the garage door openers were working just fine.

So, either I dreamed this problem yesterday, or the house is haunted.

My question: could a faulty breaker energize just part of a circuit? I know 99% of these issues are caused by a bad wiring connection inside of an outlet or light switch, which could certainly still be the culprit here.

 

[Gregor]

So, either I dreamed this problem yesterday, or the house is haunted.

Both possible, but very likely very unlikely. Since

Unfortunately, it goes into a wall in the garage and I don't know exactly where it goes from there,

maybe somewhere inbetween is a switch that has been actuated?
As the line goes to the garage (as I understood it), possibly there is a switch somewhere in your house to turn the power (or lights) off in the garage?

My question: could a faulty breaker energize just part of a circuit? I know 99% of these issues are caused by a bad wiring connection inside of an outlet or light switch, which could certainly still be the culprit here.

No, not really. Only a part of a circuit behind a breaker being powered is either a faultly connection somewhere in the cabling, or a switch you havn't accounted for.

Carefully check everything you have touched.

 

[Bob D.]

"maybe somewhere in between is a switch that has been actuated? As the line goes to the garage (as I understood it), possibly there is a switch somewhere in your house to turn the power (or lights) off in the garage?"

As I read the OPs post this was my thought too.

Do you have somewhere in the house a switch that you've never figured out what it controls? I think you may have found it.

Only other explanation I can think of is a poor connection. Double check your terminations for the new portion of the circuit.
If you have room in the panel you might be better off with a new circuit as from your description it sounds like this circuit has a enough on it already.

 

[peter halle]

I agree with Bob.  I would search for the last working receptacle and then check if the wires feeding the new portion were back wired into that receptacle.  Too often I have seen those work themselves slightly loose causing intermittent operation of downstream devices.

Peter

 

[Sparktrician]

Look carefully at the receptacles themselves to see if the wire connections are stab-in or screw-down types.  If they're stab-ins, get rid of them throughout the house and replace them with screw-down receptacles.  Too often the spring tooth in the stab-in fatigues (weakens) over time and a high-resistance short develops from the corrosion that forms in the area where wire contacts the receptacle conductors.  Eventually the circuit fails, and in the worst case, there may be a fire.  Some good reading on the subject is here.

 

[Alanbach]

Could there be overload protection on the garage door opener that tripped and then later cooled on it’s own?

 

[RKA]

So it sounds like the circuit is a Y with a single hot wire originating at the breaker, but somewhere in the middle of the circuit it was split to run into your living room and another running into the garage?  If you're certain the outlets in the living room were functional at the time that garage door had issues, I would trace everything tied to this breaker and one by one check them to find out where that line in the garage originated.  Shut off the breaker and find every switch, outlet and appliance that will no longer work. 

And I agree with one of the comments above, if something is wrong, I typically start with the last thing I touched before I go nuts troubleshooting.  Usually that only takes a few minutes.

 

[Rob Z]

Hello Ryan

I agree with all the previous comments made about connections, especially back stabs.  I never did electrical work but did hire and work with a lot of good electricians on my jobs.  It seems to me that back stab devices were the cause of more phantom problems than anything else. 

Also,  a few times we traced odd issues such as this to buried junction boxes that had tenuous connections on some conductors.  Sometimes the circuit would be energized and other times not.

 

[xedos]

GFCI  somewhere ?

They are common / required in garages these days.  Not so much in homes from the last century.

 

[Gregor]

GFCI  somewhere ?

That wouldn't have reset on it's own after it tripped...

 

[Cheese]

I did hear some faint buzzing, about once every ten seconds, but no way I could really know what component in the panel was causing this.

The faint buzzing sound is not a good thing.  [eek]    I'd want to address that issue first. Using an IR camera or a IR thermometer, probe every breaker connection to determine if all the connection points are approximately the same temperature. An intermittent/faulty connection will produce a higher junction temperature. This can usually be corrected by tightening the connection screw. In a worst case scenario, the corroded/arced end of the offending wire may need to be clipped slightly to produce a clean wire end for reconnection.

As others have pointed out, a buried junction box somewhere in the circuit could also be a partial culprit. They can be tough to find and are illegal but they're unfortunately quite common especially in older houses. 60+ years provides a lot of opportunity for someone to "upgrade" the electrical circuit.  [smile]

 

[Gregor]

I did hear some faint buzzing, about once every ten seconds, but no way I could really know what component in the panel was causing this.

The faint buzzing sound is not a good thing.

Could have been the microwave, arcing somewhere would be at less regular intervals.

 

[DeformedTree]

I did flip that mystery switch in my house this morning, and then back this afternoon, now I know it controls your garage.  Sorry about that.

Definitely time to work thru the circuits.  Others have mentioned things to look for. If you don't know how it works, there could be all sorts of ugly.  Bad connections happen.  Have there been any temp extremes or sudden changes in temp lately?  If your house has a mix of copper and aluminum wiring, you can get situations where temps and loads cause the improper connections to get flaky resulting in behavior similar to what you saw, the connection mid-circuit fails on and off thru course of day/loads.

The buzz concerning.  You could have something arcing in there.  This is where AFCI breakers are a very good thing.  Sure they cost money, and I know I'm very good on wiring, but stuff happens and I don't want to loose a whole house to fire. If you can't find anything wrong, but this keeps happening, or even if it doesn't happen again, you might want to spend the 40 odd bucks to get one, install it in place of the old and see what it does. If it keeps kicking, you know you have an arc fault issue in the circuit.

 

[ryanjg117]

Thanks all, good advice all around. I do need to map the circuits, especially if I get started on some of the planned renovations to the basements and bathrooms. Trouble is, this is a late 70s home and I don't have the original drawings. (I actually was able to call up the builder, now long retired, who informed me his architect was long gone.) I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the 15a circuit I tapped into for the garage doors is a little maxed out as-is. Like many old homes, I'm sure there's a few "non-code additions" made by previous home owners. In fact, you should see the installation job done on one of the old garage door openers -- a big part of why I replaced the doors with jackshaft openers:

[attachimg=1]

In full agreement on throwing out the back-stab outlets. I actually have a 20-pack of tamper resistant outlets (with solid screw terminals) I've been meaning to get installed everywhere as I have a couple a toddler and infant running around.

Question - Is there a way to map out the circuits using a tool that wouldn't require me to pull out each outlet? Something that could tell me in what position from the breaker a particular light or outlet resides? I'm sure something exists but I'm guessing it would be a pricey specialty item only an electrician would own...

I had an electrician swing by a few months ago to add an outlet for a new gas fireplace insert. He mentioned he could replace our aging main panel with a new SqD 200a box, all up to code with a mains switch off and GFCI, for something like $1,200. A good deal for the Pacific Northwest?

 

[ryanjg117]

SOLVED. I made the unwise decision to tap from a romex cable that led to the exterior lights outside the garage. These lights are on sensors but there is a switch in the entryway which always stays on until a toddler turns it off. Pretty dumb move on my part. I'll re-wire next weekend to pull power from an outlet in the garage.

Lesson learned - never tap power from a switched device to power another outlet or something you want to be always-on.  [wink]

 

[cpw]

Question - Is there a way to map out the circuits using a tool that wouldn't require me to pull out each outlet? Something that could tell me in what position from the breaker a particular light or outlet resides? I'm sure something exists but I'm guessing it would be a pricey specialty item only an electrician would own...

You can get one of these for $50, and it is worth it not having to take totally random guesses for each outlet.  Especially in an older house with lots of work that has been done over time, the layout of a circuit can often make about zero sense [vs. a newer house where a room at least is likely grouped together].https://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-Tools-Digital-Circuit-Breaker-Finder-ET310/308709729

 

[RKA]

Lol, well at least that’s one mystery solved.  That beam, ugh.  Easy to sister it now that you updated the door openers.  As for the panel upgrade, around me that would be a good price.  I would try to sort out whether you want a service upgrade which will depend on what upgrades you have planned for the house, shop plans and electric vehicles in the future.  Size the panel for your end state. 

As for the circuit tracer, they aren’t expensive ($20-35), but I haven’t always found them consistent or reliabledespite following the instructions.  I have one and I typically leave it in the box and pull breakers until the outlet or light is off.  My bigger breakers are marked, so that only leaves 50% of the breakers I have to cycle. 

 

[xedos]

Question - Is there a way to map out the circuits using a tool that wouldn't require me to pull out each outlet? Something that could tell me in what position from the breaker a particular light or outlet resides? I'm sure something exists but I'm guessing it would be a pricey specialty item only an electrician would own...

You can get one of these for $50, and it is worth it not having to take totally random guesses for each outlet.  Especially in an older house with lots of work that has been done over time, the layout of a circuit can often make about zero sense [vs. a newer house where a room at least is likely grouped together].https://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-Tools-Digital-Circuit-Breaker-Finder-ET310/308709729

For less than half that , this is a little gem from HF and is often "on sale" for even less.  As RKA says , it's not 100% on all panels / circuits. For 12 bucks it's worth having around.
https://www.harborfreight.com/circuit-breaker-detective-96934.html?_br_psugg_q=circuit+breaker+detective

I strongly advise having that beam repaired. A metal or plywood gusset will be easy to fit and shouldn't take a structural engineer more than 15min. to calculate for you.

 

[Sparktrician]

I had an electrician swing by a few months ago to add an outlet for a new gas fireplace insert. He mentioned he could replace our aging main panel with a new SqD 200a box, all up to code with a mains switch off and GFCI, for something like $1,200. A good deal for the Pacific Northwest?

Suggest that you check out the Leviton Smart Load Center.  This is a game-changing revamp of the traditional load center which offers plug-in breakers with all wiring done on the backplane, not to the breakers directly.  [smile]

 

[GoingMyWay]

I had a cheap circuit breaker finder and it didn't work that well in my experience.  I recently threw it out and I bought a more expensive Ideal Digital Circuit Break Finder based on Sparky Channel's  recommendation: