ets 125

[darrell]

I recently posted a question about this sander on another page... I don't know where. Thanks for the replies. Anyway, I'm having the same problem as A LOT of others.  I have tried all the things recommended; vac on and off, varios grits on raw wood and on finish, it has quite a few hours on it.  I spoke with someone as festool yesterday. He recommended the break in period and also to wax between the rubber skirt and the pad.  This sander is simply under powered. Why make a variable speed sander that is under powered at full speed?  I have the 150/5 and it is awsome. I can apply a bit of pressure on the 150 and it keeps humming.  If I apply any pressure to the 125 it slows down to a crawl.  The two people I spoke with told me I shouldn't apply any pressure.  Huh? Does anyone there actually use a sander daily and know what kind of performance we expext from a $175 sander?I know that for the final pass you want to run the sander under its own weight.  But we also need a sander that can remove some material. I replaced a $50 makita with this.  I can apply quite a bit of pressure on that sander and it still runs well.
  So afer all of that, I finally cut about 1/16" off the perimeter of the hard plastic on top of the sanding pad. This is right where the rubber skirt (pad break?) Contacts the sandind pad.  It now barely touches.  The sander runs quite a bit better now.  It still should be more powerful. When I can get thing to perform well it is very comfortable and almost a joy to use.  The 150 is actually fun to use.  What can be done about this?  My simple fix has been a good help but its still not quite what it should be.  One of the guys at festool said that this has been the biggest complaint.  Clearly this company makes quality tools.  Why such a stain on an otherwise clean record? Does festool have any intention on resolving this problem?  The friction between the skirt and the pad is a simple one for them to deal with. Why would you want to rob power from an already under powered motor? I know this has been a bit longwinded but I'm looking for more than "it needs a break in period", " try turning the suction on the vac down", I'm well past that.  And besides that, why should any of us need to "break in"a $175 sander? That should be done at the factory and then checked for performance so they won't send out any duds.  I like the domino and the 150, but this feels like I'm being used. I don't want to return it yet, I want festool to remedy this problem and send all of us 5" ro sanders that perform the way they are supposed to.  Its a great start guys, but you are not quite there.  Thanks. And I hope we can all get this resolved.  Festool should want to.

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

Darrell,

The ETS 125 is an ultra-fine finish sander. Most other manufacturers' 5" sanders are general purpose sanders, which may be what you're basing your experience or expectations on. Based on your comments, it doesn't sound like there's anything wrong with your sander. There's no problem to solve. The sander, from your description, sounds like it is probably performing normally.

You really shouldn't bear down on a sander. Choose the proper grit of abrasive to do the job, not pressure. The ETS 125 has a very tight 2mm stroke for an ultra-fine finish. It's not intended or designed for stock removal. It is not underpowered, it is purpose-built. The pad brake is designed to prevent the pad from spinning wildly and potentially nicking your finish, so it is working as intended. If you want to remove material quickly, go with the ETS 150 or a Rotex sander.

Normally, you'd have the option of returning or exchanging the sander within the 30-day guarantee period. But, since you've modified the sander at this point, it cannot be returned. I'm sorry if you feel this isn't an acceptable answer. The ETS 125 has never been billed as a fast material remover. It does what it's advertised to do.

My question would be: what are you trying/hoping to accomplish with this sander?

Shane Holland
Festool USA

 

[mouppe]

Hi Darrell,

I read your post and perhaps more than any other Festool, the ETS 125 has its fans and its detractors and almost nobody else on the fence. I sympathize with your point of view but beg to disagree.

Shane is right- you should not be bearing down on the sander. Add his opinion to mine and the two other people you spoke to. There are other sanders in the Festool stable that are more aggressive, and you can bear down on those.

Personally, I love my ETS125. I sold all my sanders except this one and the RO125. It does the job it was built for exceptionally well. I cannot see a problem with it, or something that needs remedying. I also fail to understand why you did not return it if you were so unhappy with it before "fixing" it. So IMO, nothing to be "resolved."

Finally, welcome to the FOG.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Darrell, I love my ETS 125. It is well broken in and there is not a hint of it being underpowered. I can do fine finish work with it and in blatant disregard of what is said above, I also like to bear down on it with force when I need it to remove stock faster with a coarser grit.

That said, I completely agree with what you say about the break in period. Festool does do themselves a great disservice by leaving this break in period to the customer. Because, as a result the customer gets the wrong impression about this sander right away. You wouldn't believe how many posts we read on here about the ETS 125 being underpowered, and as a result, difficult to control. I had the same experience with a DTS 400 I bought new, it's basically the same machine as the ETS125 with only a different pad. It is incredible how much difference in power there is between a brand new and a  broken in sander.

And that's where Festool really makes a stupid mistake, because the customer, always weary of making the right decision by buying such an expensive sander, expects the sander to perform right out of the box and evaluates it in the first few moments he uses it. A promise of "it will do better in 10 hours or so", will simply not do. Festool really should find a solution to get this break in period out of the way so the customer gets full performance right away.
       
But once that break in period is out of the way you do get a very nice sander. Which is, as Shane mentioned, a finish sander and meant to get the finest surface possible.

It is not really fair to compare it with 125 mm sanders from other brands because they make those more an all-round type of sander instead of a finish sander. What you'll also see, is that they don't come close to the number of different sanders Festool offers. So the couple of sanders that they do offer have to cover a larger spectre of all available jobs. While Festool makes some sanders that are optimised for one particular thing. The ETS 125 is such a sander.

 

[deepcreek]

I just bought an ETS125 and a RO125.

What's the easiest way to "break them in" besides spending 10 hours each with sub-par operation?

I love Festool but this is ridiculous.

Thanks!

Joe

 

[AlexThePalex]

I just bought an ETS125 and a RO125.

What's the easiest way to "break them in" besides spending 10 hours each with sub-par operation?

Easiest way is to hang them with a rope and let them run idle while you get as far away as possible.

Doesn't have to be done with the Rotex, only the small ETS125, DTS400 and RTS400.

I love Festool but this is ridiculous.

Yes, it is.

 

[deepcreek]

Thanks for the info!  I wasn't sure if the break in would work at idle or if the sander had to be under load.

My initial test of the Rotex had it bucking like a bronco.  I attributed this to using an industrial shop vac with full suction rather than the lower setting of a CT.

I'm going to try drilling some holes in my adapter to provide make up air.  A Festool dust extractor just isn't in the budget right now

 

[semenza]

Thanks for the info!  I wasn't sure if the break in would work at idle or if the sander had to be under load.

My initial test of the Rotex had it bucking like a bronco.  I attributed this to using an industrial shop vac with full suction rather than the lower setting of a CT.

I'm going to try drilling some holes in my adapter to provide make up air.  A Festool dust extractor just isn't in the budget right now

The Rotex definetly takes some practice to get the feel for it in Rotex mode. So just keep using it and it should stop bucking.

Seth

 

[Ken Nagrod]

I just bought an ETS125 and a RO125.

What's the easiest way to "break them in" besides spending 10 hours each with sub-par operation?

Easiest way is to hang them with a rope and let them run idle while you get as far away as possible.

Doesn't have to be done with the Rotex, only the small ETS125, DTS400 and RTS400.

I love Festool but this is ridiculous.

Yes, it is.

Did I understand that correctly?  You're saying the Rotex doesn't need to go through the break-in period?  Not what I experienced or, from what I recall on here, what others have said.  I seriously questioned buying it when I put it to use on it's first job.  That was before I knew about a break-in.  I too agree that Festool should be doing this at the factory.

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

Take a look at this article on our blog. It has some recommends on how to hold your Rotex. As the title of the article states, technique matters.

http://blog.festoolusa.com/post/2011/02/18/Why-Technique-Matters.aspx

The Rotex sanders really don't need lower suction.

All of our sanders, including the Rotex, come with brushes that are brand new. The sander needs to be operated for about 10 hours for those brushes to fully seat against the armature. A fully seated brush will result in a power increase essentially.

Shane

 

[nickao]

Finally, someone from Festool that is with me on this. I have said from the beginning I keep my vac at full ALL the time while using my Rotex and many still say that lower suction must be used for certain instances(I have found none). I feel sightly vindicated as a couple years back I got some slack(well a lot of it really) for my recommendation on not needing the variable suction or specifically low suction for the Rotex sanders. I had one person say to look into my heart and admit my fault or something along those lines, why it took years for Festool to verify this is beyond me. Maybe some were trying to just sell the Festool vacs (that I have and like) variable suction feature when the Fein originals with no variable suction worked great with the Rotex. Heck, I recently used my Rotex with a crappy shop vac and it worked great!

Rotex is still my favorite sander. The ETS sorry to say is NOT the best 5" sander , not even close. Actually, the PC 390 blows it away for me, though I have read recent issues with the PC 390 I have had none and it is only 99.00!

 

[mouppe]

I don't know if there's a definitive yes or no to the question of using lower suction with the rotex, and I wouldn't  argue with anyone if they have a system that works for them. But personally, I use half-power suction because it's sufficient to collect the dust and much quieter.

 

[nickao]

Absolutely its more quiet and an excellent reason to use less suction, but I personally wear hearing protection 100% of the time so sound level is not an issue for me. From a use stand point a big issue here was swirl marks and the sander jumping and people pointed to the full power suction being the cause, its not the cause. Not enough break in and not knowing how to use these sanders(learning curve) is the cause of the sander hopping and swirl marks.

 

[mouppe]

Agreed. And now that I come to think of it I do use hearing protection withe rotex but not with the ets 125.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Did I understand that correctly?  You're saying the Rotex doesn't need to go through the break-in period?  Not what I experienced or, from what I recall on here, what others have said.  I seriously questioned buying it when I put it to use on it's first job.  That was before I knew about a break-in.  I too agree that Festool should be doing this at the factory.

Well, what I mean is that as far as your operation and user experience is regarded, the break in shouldn't affect you. I do realise there's a break in period for the brushes and the gears, but that doesn't have any influence on it's operation like with the small sanders, because the Rotex has so much power that it wil pull through anyway. Say with the ETS125, you loose 100 watts due to the break in, and you're left with a 100 watt sander which is only half a sander. Say you loose 100 watts with a 500 watt sander and you still have 400 watts at your disposal.

As for the jumpiness a lot of people report about the Rotex at first, that's probably due to the user's break in period, not that of the sander. I used both my own Ro150 and my nephew's Ro125 brand new out of the box without any problems whatsoever.
 

Finally, someone from Festool that is with me on this. I have said from the beginning I keep my vac at full ALL the time while using my Rotex and many still say that lower suction must be used for certain instances(I have found none).

I'm with you. I never lower the suction, certainly not with the Rotex. Most of the time not even with other sanders like the DTS400 and the ETS125 either. They work just fine with full suction on most surfaces. Only time I really needed to lower the suction for my DTS400 was when I was sanding some plastered wall, I could just stick the sander to the wall and it would stay there without falling down, and it would dig itself into the wall when I moved it. But never had a problem on any other project.

Agreed. And now that I come to think of it I do use hearing protection withe rotex but not with the ets 125.

I always use hearing protection with any sander. Even the small ones are noisy buggers. The noise added by the vac is minimal compared to the sanders themselves.

 

[darrell]

Well after 28 days and a lot if frustration I blew th e 30 bucks on a new pad and returned it.  Talk about an expensive learning curve.

 

[Kodi Crescent]

They probably would have taken it back with the old pad.

I guess I need to break mine in now...

What other Festools need a break in period?

 

[Brice Burrell]

They probably would have taken it back with the old pad.

I guess I need to break mine in now...

What other Festools need a break in period?

The small sanders, ETS125, DTS400 and RTS400, also the Rotex sanders tend to run a little cooler after they break in.

 

[Kodi Crescent]

Do you break them in from use, or by hanging them up and letting them run for awhile? (or does it matter?)

 

[peter halle]

The sanders will have less power during their break in period.  You can use them at their less than optimal state, or you cn hang them and lock them on and go surf the FOG!

Peter