ETS EC 150/3. Why does it exist?

[Cheese]

[member=42263]c_dwyer[/member]

I'm just looking at the prices you've referred to and I find it rather interesting that they kind of support the $100 difference in price between the 125 and the 150.

My assumption is that Festool sells a lot more 150's than they do 125's. Just a hunch.
Now they also offer a 150/5 sander which uses all of the same parts that the 150/3 uses except for maybe 3-5 different items. Thus between the 150/3 & the 150/5 the economy of scale factor weighs in. Worth mentioning, is that when I opened up my 125, there were several parts that were stamped 150/3.

So, if they're selling more 150's, they'd be ordering larger lots of 150 parts, thus their piece part price would be lower and yet they sell the 150 sander at a $100 premium compared to the 125 sander that they produce fewer of.  Marketing at its best, you can't charge a premium for a 125 because they aren't the king of the market, however you can charge that extra $100 for the 150 because the market will support it.

 

[TylerC]

Have we ever gotten an official comment from Festool about using the 6" pad on the 125? Like, is this something that would void warranty? [member=57769]TylerC[/member] ?

My gut here says that it would void the warranty -- as it is using a consumable that wasn't designed to be used with that tool. However, that's not the "official comment". I'll see if I can get an answer by morning.

 

[TylerC]

Using a 6" pad on 5" sander will void the warranty.

The length of the mounting bolt (threaded portion) is not the same.  The pad will not engage the pad brake due to the height difference, and you would there not have effective pad control.  This can risk damage to the work surface as well as increase vibration for the user. It was not made or designed to work this way, and it is not recommended.

 

[bobfog]

Using a 6" pad on 5" sander will void the warranty.

The length of the mounting bolt (threaded portion) is not the same.  The pad will not engage the pad brake due to the height difference, and you would there not have effective pad control.  This can risk damage to the work surface as well as increase vibration for the user. It was not made or designed to work this way, and it is not recommended.

Sorry Tyler, but I've done a side by side comparison of all the parts mentioned and a side by side comparison with an ETS EC 150 with a reputable dealer who is a member of the FOG and what you've said is completely inaccurate.

 

[grbmds]

I guess I'm not sure "Why does it exist?" matters. I have the ETS125 and ETS150/5 as I felt, at the time I bought them, the 150/5 would be faster for sanding with the coarser grits and I'd use the 125 with a smaller orbit for the final few finish sanding steps. It turns out that, except for size on smaller projects, the 150/5 does just as good a job with finer grits as the 125 (or probably the 150/3). It's a good point for people buying sanders to realize; namely that the 125 and 150/3 are essentially the same sander with a different pad, but a lot of the whole sanding thing is what any one person feels comfortable with or works best for them. I like the 125 for some jobs and the 150/5 for others.  I also recently bought a Rotex 125 with an interface pad to do some work carving out a chair seat. I like it for that but would not likely use it for other things (although I don't know how it functions in the other finish sanding mode). It's possible that, once I use that sander more I might not use the others as much. With Festool, there are too many sanders and, for most of us who don't work in wood for a living, any one sander could do all jobs; Rotex 125, Rotex 150, ETS125, ETS150/3, or ETS150/5. It's hard to know until you work with them. People tend to create different habits once they use a tool for awhile so things change over time. What works best today might not be the way you work next year. I personally like having choices and what company doesn't make overlapping tools? Designs and function changes over time for them also.

 

[Holmz]

Using a 6" pad on 5" sander will void the warranty.

The length of the mounting bolt (threaded portion) is not the same.  The pad will not engage the pad brake due to the height difference, and you would there not have effective pad control.  This can risk damage to the work surface as well as increase vibration for the user. It was not made or designed to work this way, and it is not recommended.

Sorry Tyler, but I've done a side by side comparison of all the parts mentioned and a side by side comparison with an ETS EC 150 with a reputable dealer who is a member of the FOG and what you've said is completely inaccurate.

I am sure that Tyler's conclusion is correct in that if voids the warrenty. And I am sure Festool knows who they sell the parts to.
And this says nothing about whether or not there is any reasonable facts to it.

Basically you can get the same as the Mirka DEROS 5/6" combo, but it voids the warrenty, and it also is only possible in the 3-mm stroke.

That said, have I ever changed the pad on the DEROS? ... Nope.
Did I want a 5-mm stroke? ... Yep

Even though the ETS is more is a finish sander, the is nice handling with the ETS EC, and of course the DEROS is also a Finnish sander.

 

[sheperd80]

I guess I'm not sure "Why does it exist?" matters. I have the ETS125 and ETS150/5 as I felt, at the time I bought them, the 150/5 would be faster for sanding with the coarser grits and I'd use the 125 with a smaller orbit for the final few finish sanding steps. It turns out that, except for size on smaller projects, the 150/5 does just as good a job with finer grits as the 125 (or probably the 150/3). It's a good point for people buying sanders to realize; namely that the 125 and 150/3 are essentially the same sander with a different pad, but a lot of the whole sanding thing is what any one person feels comfortable with or works best for them. I like the 125 for some jobs and the 150/5 for others.  I also recently bought a Rotex 125 with an interface pad to do some work carving out a chair seat. I like it for that but would not likely use it for other things (although I don't know how it functions in the other finish sanding mode). It's possible that, once I use that sander more I might not use the others as much. With Festool, there are too many sanders and, for most of us who don't work in wood for a living, any one sander could do all jobs; Rotex 125, Rotex 150, ETS125, ETS150/3, or ETS150/5. It's hard to know until you work with them. People tend to create different habits once they use a tool for awhile so things change over time. What works best today might not be the way you work next year. I personally like having choices and what company doesn't make overlapping tools? Designs and function changes over time for them also.

I think the question matters because Festool has created a unique position for themselves in the market and we have to be wise to it. Theyve got people convincing themselves that everything Festool is better because its so expensive. Asking these questions enables discerning users who arent rich to sift through the sea of products and find whats worth the heavy investment for them.

Theres true genius behind this line of sanders... Each one seems so versatile!!!...Yet makes you feel the need to go buy another one. If we can help new users weed out a couple choices then the question is worth asking imho. And the answer?... based on this thread it seems that the 150/3 exists to cost you $485. And of course to trigger the festool spiral of insanity in your brain that says "well if its that good then the cost is irrelevant!!!" And that logic that i hear so often on these forums is the result of absolitely brilliant engineering...(in the marketing department.)[emoji6]

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

 

[bobfog]

Using a 6" pad on 5" sander will void the warranty.

The length of the mounting bolt (threaded portion) is not the same.  The pad will not engage the pad brake due to the height difference, and you would there not have effective pad control.  This can risk damage to the work surface as well as increase vibration for the user. It was not made or designed to work this way, and it is not recommended.

Sorry Tyler, but I've done a side by side comparison of all the parts mentioned and a side by side comparison with an ETS EC 150 with a reputable dealer who is a member of the FOG and what you've said is completely inaccurate.

I am sure that Tyler's conclusion is correct in that if voids the warrenty. And I am sure Festool knows who they sell the parts to.
And this says nothing about whether or not there is any reasonable facts to it.

Basically you can get the same as the Mirka DEROS 5/6" combo, but it voids the warrenty, and it also is only possible in the 3-mm stroke.

That said, have I ever changed the pad on the DEROS? ... Nope.
Did I want a 5-mm stroke? ... Yep

Even though the ETS is more is a finish sander, the is nice handling with the ETS EC, and of course the DEROS is also a Finnish sander.

My comment was to do with the practicalalities that if you just buy a 150mm pad and use same hex bolt that came with the machine it all works properly with absolutely no undesirable results. I wasn't disputing Tyler's point that Festool would take the opportunity to void the warranty as punishment for outsmarting them and realising the pad is interchangeable... not that they'd ever be able to tell; provided the end user wasn't stupid enough to either tell Festool or send the 150mm pad to them along with the tool in the event of a warranty claim.

 

[Holmz]

I guess I'm not sure "Why does it exist?" matters. I have the ETS125 and ETS150/5 as I felt, at the time I bought them, the 150/5 would be faster for sanding with the coarser grits and I'd use the 125 with a smaller orbit for the final few finish sanding steps. It turns out that, except for size on smaller projects, the 150/5 does just as good a job with finer grits as the 125 (or probably the 150/3). It's a good point for people buying sanders to realize; namely that the 125 and 150/3 are essentially the same sander with a different pad, but a lot of the whole sanding thing is what any one person feels comfortable with or works best for them. I like the 125 for some jobs and the 150/5 for others.  I also recently bought a Rotex 125 with an interface pad to do some work carving out a chair seat. I like it for that but would not likely use it for other things (although I don't know how it functions in the other finish sanding mode). It's possible that, once I use that sander more I might not use the others as much. With Festool, there are too many sanders and, for most of us who don't work in wood for a living, any one sander could do all jobs; Rotex 125, Rotex 150, ETS125, ETS150/3, or ETS150/5. It's hard to know until you work with them. People tend to create different habits once they use a tool for awhile so things change over time. What works best today might not be the way you work next year. I personally like having choices and what company doesn't make overlapping tools? Designs and function changes over time for them also.

I think the question matters because Festool has created a unique position for themselves in the market and we have to be wise to it. Theyve got people convincing themselves that everything Festool is better because its so expensive. Asking these questions enables discerning users who arent rich to sift through the sea of products and find whats worth the heavy investment for them.

Theres true genius behind this line of sanders... Each one seems so versatile!!!...Yet makes you feel the need to go buy another one. If we can help new users weed out a couple choices then the question is worth asking imho. And the answer?... based on this thread it seems that the 150/3 exists to cost you $485. And of course to trigger the festool spiral of insanity in your brain that says "well if its that good then the cost is irrelevant!!!" And that logic that i hear so often on these forums is the result of absolitely brilliant engineering...(in the marketing department.)[emoji6]

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

There may be genius in the Rotex.
The belt sander has been around 1/4 century.
The ETS EC is similar to the DEROS that preceded it.
The rest are nothing special.

 

[sheperd80]

I guess I'm not sure "Why does it exist?" matters. I have the ETS125 and ETS150/5 as I felt, at the time I bought them, the 150/5 would be faster for sanding with the coarser grits and I'd use the 125 with a smaller orbit for the final few finish sanding steps. It turns out that, except for size on smaller projects, the 150/5 does just as good a job with finer grits as the 125 (or probably the 150/3). It's a good point for people buying sanders to realize; namely that the 125 and 150/3 are essentially the same sander with a different pad, but a lot of the whole sanding thing is what any one person feels comfortable with or works best for them. I like the 125 for some jobs and the 150/5 for others.  I also recently bought a Rotex 125 with an interface pad to do some work carving out a chair seat. I like it for that but would not likely use it for other things (although I don't know how it functions in the other finish sanding mode). It's possible that, once I use that sander more I might not use the others as much. With Festool, there are too many sanders and, for most of us who don't work in wood for a living, any one sander could do all jobs; Rotex 125, Rotex 150, ETS125, ETS150/3, or ETS150/5. It's hard to know until you work with them. People tend to create different habits once they use a tool for awhile so things change over time. What works best today might not be the way you work next year. I personally like having choices and what company doesn't make overlapping tools? Designs and function changes over time for them also.

I think the question matters because Festool has created a unique position for themselves in the market and we have to be wise to it. Theyve got people convincing themselves that everything Festool is better because its so expensive. Asking these questions enables discerning users who arent rich to sift through the sea of products and find whats worth the heavy investment for them.

Theres true genius behind this line of sanders... Each one seems so versatile!!!...Yet makes you feel the need to go buy another one. If we can help new users weed out a couple choices then the question is worth asking imho. And the answer?... based on this thread it seems that the 150/3 exists to cost you $485. And of course to trigger the festool spiral of insanity in your brain that says "well if its that good then the cost is irrelevant!!!" And that logic that i hear so often on these forums is the result of absolitely brilliant engineering...(in the marketing department.)[emoji6]

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

There may be genius in the Rotex.
The belt sander has been around 1/4 century.
The ETS EC is similar to the DEROS that preceded it.
The rest are nothing special.

I think you missed my point. And btw i wish they would come out with a belt sander for the US!!!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

 

[grbmds]

Actually, most threads on the forum end up denigrating one product or another of the Festool line so I doubt there is a danger anymore of people thinking all their tools are the best. They are just like all other tool manufacturers. There are tools in the Festool line that are genius, extremely useful for pros and hobbyists (like the Domino) or just perform better than anyone else's tools (like the CT's) or allow dust collection better than any tool on the market (like the routers even without a CT). Then there are tools which probably aren't that much better, powerfull, effiecient. As for sanders, for me, it's about what I am comfortable using in a particular situation. Do I have too many sanders? Probably, but I feel only one of them is questionable and may have been a waste for me. Each one I own has a strong point for certain jobs and that is why I'm glad I have them. Could I get along without some? No doubt. Certainly let those looking at sanders know your experience but, to me, it doesn't matter that there is overlap. Thanks for the feedback on the sanders though. It was interesting.

 

[Cheese]

Okay...so much to my chagrin, it's time again to weigh in...I took a video of the converted EC 125 with the much maligned 150 pad installed. I tried to post it but this website does not accept .mov files...what's with that?

The bottom line is, the brake still functions properly and the pad didn't accelerate to an unknown  warp velocity, which if we were to believe the alternative facts agenda, the 150 pad would now have jettisoned itself from the sander and be orbiting Pluto.

So the good news is that Pluto is safe and the offending 150 pad is still safely downstairs attached to a sander that has a bolt too short to retain it.  [big grin]

 

[TylerC]

Using a 6" pad on 5" sander will void the warranty.

The length of the mounting bolt (threaded portion) is not the same.  The pad will not engage the pad brake due to the height difference, and you would there not have effective pad control.  This can risk damage to the work surface as well as increase vibration for the user. It was not made or designed to work this way, and it is not recommended.

Sorry Tyler, but I've done a side by side comparison of all the parts mentioned and a side by side comparison with an ETS EC 150 with a reputable dealer who is a member of the FOG and what you've said is completely inaccurate.

I stand behind my response. There's a 1-2 mm difference in height between the two mounting posts.

 

[Holmz]

[member=62796]sheperd80[/member] the marketing is good and there is likely some opportunity being missed.

The RAS and LS13O are two others worth a special mention.
I have a DX93 and the fingers are ready to get a BS105.
In 1/2 sheet and random orbital I already have good sanders.

I am sure that selling a combo like the DEROS in a 5"/6" would move a lot of units... But maybe less than 125 and 150 combined.
So there is not likely a good reason to do it.