ETS EC 150 - Electronic extraction detection removed?

[UFOking]

Hello,

I didn't find the answer to my question anywhere not even from Festool, so I'm asking here.
Just bought a new Festool ETS EC 150/5 from an official Festool seller, and my sander has no Electronic extraction detection function.
Did Festool remove this function on the new machines? Mine was manufactured 2021-02.
The seller said, that this is strange and that the function should be there, and then some Festool guy contacted me and said, that the function was remove and it's already not available for more than a year.
I than contacted Festool directly, but didn't get any response from them.

Thanks.

 

[xedos]

Don’t know specifically about the 21’ models.

Why don’t you telephone them and ask, might be faster.

Is there a new (updated) owners manual ?

 

[squall_line]

What do you mean by "electronic extraction detection function"?

If you plug a corded tool like the ETS EC 150/5 into the "Tool Power" port of a Festool Dust Extractor and switch the extractor to "auto", it should turn on and off when you power the tool on and off.

Any other methods of starting and stopping an extractor would generally require bluetooth, which is only offered by the cordless tools and as a separate module for the larger Festool extractors or by default in some of the newer smaller extractors (Mini and Midi).  Non-bluetooth tools can also start a bluetooth-enabled extractor with a separate button that can be paired to the extractor and clipped to the hose.

 

[xedos]

squall -

The EC sanderS have ( or used to ) a sensor and a setting that would not allow operation unless the sander was connected to a dust collection hose.

 

[squall_line]

squall -

The EC sanderS have ( or used to ) a sensor and a setting that would not allow operation unless the sander was connected to a dust collection hose.

Thank you for this information; I was not previously aware and probably shouldn't have butted in.

That said, is it related to this thread?https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/...-the-new-ets-ec-1505-yet/msg635795/#msg635795

 

[Cheese]

It used to be a user actuated option.

[attachimg=1]

 

[rmhinden]

[member=75246]UFOking[/member]

I have the ETS EC 125, this has the ability to enable or disable this feature.  Are you sure it isn't just disabled?

I found a online manual for the 150:

Switching the extractor signal ON/OFF.  The extractor signal is supplied in a deactivated state.
  Switch on power tool by briefly pressing the ON/OFF button [1-1].
  Switch off the power tool again and hold down the ON/OFF button [1-1]. Power tool beeps once.
  Turn speed control [1-2] to both end positions(Level 1 and 6).  Power tool beeps three times for ON and twice for OFF.
  Release ON/OFF button [1-1].  Extractor signal is activated or deactivated.

Sounds like the default is off for the 150.

Hope this is helpful.

Bob

 

[AlexThePalex]

Yes, it has been removed from the standard ETS EC 150 EQ model.

Instead they introduced the new model ETS EC 150 EQA (added the A) which has extraction detection.

A stands for Absaugerkennung which is german for Extraction Detection.

From the current ETS EC 150 manual:

[attachimg=2]

[attachimg=1]

 

[AlexThePalex]

I guess they got tons of complaints from people who's sander suddenly didn't function anymore. The extraction detection is activated by holding the ON/OFF button for a certain time. It is not difficult to figure this happens all the time inadvertently.

We see this trend a lot in electronics lately, multiple functions on a single button. I find it a very troublesome development, because it goes wrong all the time. Want it foolproof? One function, one button.

Friends of mine had a few Gira dimmers installed during renovation. They really got weird results, lights were often not working or doing strange things like flickering and switching off automatically. They asked me to look into it, so I downloaded the manual for these dimmers. Turns out, you can program the dimmer with 5 or 6 different functions, all accessed through the main button. Hold for 3 seconds, turn left, hold for two seconds, turn right, tap 3 times, sacrifice a lamb, etcetera, etcetera. No wonder things didn't work out.

Suffice it to say, the Gira dimmers went back and I installed some plain and simple dimmers that could do only one thing: Dim, reliably.

 

[DeformedTree]

Alex,

Exactly.  Anytime things try to get clever with buttons with holds, multi-taps, etc. it just leads to frustration.  Having a separate switch cost money (switches are expensive, thus why products try to get rid of them), but in a case like this, I don't think festool factored in how much it would cost them having tools continually coming back in the first 30 days because it randomly powers off and so forth, any cost savings gets eliminated fast.

Sadly products everywhere are going this route. Trying to find simple, straightforward products that are not "smart" "connected" "touch screen" etc is getting hard.

I absolutely had no idea the ETS EC's had this function.  It's not like you expect a sander to have functions beyond on/off and maybe speed.

 

[Coen]

[member=5277]Alex[/member] for the sacrificial lamb to program the dimmer; that only works well with full moon and bright sky. 

Gira has plain dimmers too btw. And their round button is compatible with other brand's dimmers too.

[member=68063]DeformedTree[/member] You would not expect people to use a sander without extraction

If this was on my sander I would definitely enable it to stop family from using it "for just a minute" without extraction, hehe.

 

[semenza]

squall -

The EC sanderS have ( or used to ) a sensor and a setting that would not allow operation unless the sander was connected to a dust collection hose.

Thank you for this information; I was not previously aware and probably shouldn't have butted in.

That said, is it related to this thread?https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/...-the-new-ets-ec-1505-yet/msg635795/#msg635795

I don't have any special info but I do not believe these are related issues.

Seth

 

[DeformedTree]

You would not expect people to use a sander without extraction

If this was on my sander I would definitely enable it to stop family from using it "for just a minute" without extraction, hehe.

Yeah, I don't use them without either. I can get where Festool was coming from, such interlocks make sense, especialy in a commercial environment with health and safety, etc.  It's the not knowing is was there verses just thinking the sander is busted that would be bothersome. I do suspect a future where tools are required to be connected to extractors to work.

Interlocks to prevent others from using tools would be interesting. Ability to connect family members to extractors could get interesting.  ;D

 

[xedos]

Want it foolproof? One function, one button

While this is quite logical, I think the simplest/ best solution would have been to design the sander to not need this function in the first place.

 

[Cheese]

There’s nothing inherently wrong with this function, what’s amiss is the method used to toggle it on or off.

A more fool proof method would probably void this conversation.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Want it foolproof? One function, one button

While this is quite logical, I think the simplest/ best solution would have been to design the sander to not need this function in the first place.

I agree with you. It seems this function creates more problems than it solves. Most people also have detectors on board, if my hose drops off I generally notice it within seconds.

 

[bertv]

I guess it is also about liability.  In some countries people sue companies over the most absurd things (yeah, if you don’t wait for your hot drink to cool off a bit before drinking it you’ll burn your mouth…).

 

[UFOking]

Hi,

here is a picture of my sander withoud the LED for extraction detection.
I was also said from someone, that now, there are not 2 models as mentioned in the manual, one with extraction detection and one without, but only without the extraction detection.
Does anyone else have a new model manufactured in 2021 and can confirm this?

Thanks

 

[DeformedTree]

I guess it is also about liability. 

As I mentioned, I suspect regulation may be coming, or maybe Festool expected it too and was trying to get out ahead of this.  Company very well want to reduce their liability when it comes to dust regulations with employees.  Harder for a lawsuit later if the companies can say they had tools with interlocks for dust exposure, thus any exposure means the employee defeated the system.

It's better for companies to get ahead of such things instead of having government/other companies decide how the "problem" will be solved for them.

Like anything, safety systems are fine, just don't make them horrible, intrusive, un-reliable........