Exterior Paint Job..Which Festool tool should I buy?

[purplemoneypit]

We are planning to repaintthe exterior of our house in June 2012.  The home was built in 1907 and we are in the process of getting a lead paint test.  I had planned on a purchasing a Festool Dust Extractor..maybe the Midi? but wasn't sure which sander to purchase? The house was painted 13 years ago and thanks to gutter failure never corrected by previous owners, the paint on the North and East side has completely failed i.e. enormous chunks of paint coming off with exposed bare wood..We had planned to hand scrape anything loose and originally going to Paint Shaver everything else to bare wood. However, we were getting nervous about the scope of the project so we had a painting company bid the job with excellent historic home references and they said they follow the National Trust recommendations not to remove all the paint if there is even a possibility of lead (they were EPA Cert. also) So they simply sand and use the HEPA.  Well asbestos discoveries in the basement ate a chunk of our planned professional painting budget! So now we are back to tackling this job. Other forum members on historic property forums recommended Festool for the dust containment and I see their sanders have great reviews as well.  The problem I am having through my research of festool tools is that people are sanding down to bare wood..we don't need to do this..All I want is a smooth surface to paint that also follows recommended lead removal procedures. 

Any suggestions?  The siding material is fir.

Thanks!

 

[semenza]

Hi,

Welcome to the FOG!  [smile]

I would go with the RO150 Rotex. This will remove all the loose paint , the semi loose paint, and smooth the rest. Because of the two sanding modes you can strip off the paint in the agressive mode and if need be do a little extra smoothing with the random orbit mode. DC will be very good with this sander , but you should still be wearing protective gear.

I would be looking to use either Cristal or Granat abrasives.

Generally the RAS115 is recommended for stripping paint but that one will definetly take it to bare would and you might still need another  for smoothing.

Get an extra long hose and you can leave the vac on the ground.

Seth

 

[AlexThePalex]

I do this a lot. My go to Festools are the RO 150, the DTS 400 and the CT Mini.

The RO 150 is great with fast removal and smoothing out of large surfaces. In aggressive rotary mode you eat paint away quickly and in the gentle eccentric mode you can smooth out the surface without taking too much off.

The DTS 400 works great for smaller surfaces like window trim and for getting into corners. Since all houses here in Holland are made out of brick and not wood, the DTS 400 is my most used sander.

I have two vacs, the CT26 and the CT Mini, but the Mini is the one I use for paint jobs. It's suction is good enough for any sander and its small size makes it ideal to move around to all spots of the house.

I would recommend these 3 Festools to everybody doing paint work around the house, and wouldn't like to be without any one of them as I regard them the essential minimum to do the job swiftly and professionally.

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

If it is your own house and you are doing the work, you are exempt from following RRP procedures.

You can bet your sweet bippy, when I get to the exterior on mine, the epa can suck it.

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

I would go with a Rotex 150 or 125 depending on the reveal of your claps. 

They will work great to feather out the paint that is still stuck on. 

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Sure I could, and you were probably expecting it, but I'm keepin' da mouth shut!  This could go so many different ways.  Right Darcy?  [big grin] [big grin]

 

[alamont]

I recently (last month) finished stripping and prepping our Victorian home for painting. The Chicago house was built in 1908 and was hidden under layers of asphalt and aluminum siding. I started stripping the house using a Rotex 125 for the clap boards. The 125's size works great for 4-5 inch clapboard reveals. I also used a CT mini for the dust collection and it worked like the little champ that it is. However, once I got to the window casings, sashes, and jambs I used the RO 90. I can not even begin to say how amazing this little thing is. If your house has intricate moldings (which it would because old houses are awesome) this tool is amazing. Both sanders have their place in this type of restoration.

As a side note, I also used these sanders in conjunction with a silent paint remover, carbide pull scrappers, and lots of time. Nail holes and patches were filled with WoodEpox made by Abatron.

Hope that helps. Good Luck,
Alamont

 

[semenza]

Hi Alamont,

Happy first post  [smile]

Thanks for the helpful info.

Seth

 

[Corwin]

If you will be sanding areas higher up (if you have a two-story home) you might consider one of the CTs, as opposed to a Mini/Midi, as these larger vacs will accept the Boom Arm.  I found the Boom Arm made it easier to handle the vac's hose when up on a ladder when I sanded my second-story trim.  That's the story I'm sticking too.  [wink]

 

[greenMonster]

all the new festool dcs are now fully hepa cert...including the mini/midi fyi

 

[FulThrotl]

We are planning to repaintthe exterior of our house in June 2012.  The home was built in 1907 and we are in the process of getting a lead paint test.  I had planned on a purchasing a Festool Dust Extractor..maybe the Midi? but wasn't sure which sander to purchase? The house was painted 13 years ago and thanks to gutter failure never corrected by previous owners, the paint on the North and East side has completely failed i.e. enormous chunks of paint coming off with exposed bare wood..We had planned to hand scrape anything loose and originally going to Paint Shaver everything else to bare wood. However, we were getting nervous about the scope of the project so we had a painting company bid the job with excellent historic home references and they said they follow the National Trust recommendations not to remove all the paint if there is even a possibility of lead (they were EPA Cert. also) So they simply sand and use the HEPA.  Well asbestos discoveries in the basement ate a chunk of our planned professional painting budget! So now we are back to tackling this job. Other forum members on historic property forums recommended Festool for the dust containment and I see their sanders have great reviews as well.  The problem I am having through my research of festool tools is that people are sanding down to bare wood..we don't need to do this..All I want is a smooth surface to paint that also follows recommended lead removal procedures. 

Any suggestions?  The siding material is fir.

Thanks!

i'd go with two sanders...  ro150 and a ro90....  and a CT 26...

if the WE involves two people bonding over sanding, get a second hose, and a Y connector,
so you can run 2 sanders at the same time.

your sanding dust will be minimal, and as was mentioned above, as homeowners, you are
not bound by all the regulations an abatement contractor will have.

however..... make SURE you have good respirators, and purple cartridges. i use ones
made by north, myself. you will need a new set of cartridges after 16 hours of work time,
as a general rule.

use inner bags on the vac, and double wrap them in plastic before disposal.

i'll bet a cheeseburger your lead test comes back positive. that means without
abatement, you get to disclose the lead on future escrow, if you sell the property.

if it were mine, i'd remove it and sand down to bare material, especially as 24 grit
paper in a RO 150 removes stuff like old paint and snarfy wood at an astounding rate.

to remove about 5 layers of floor finish on 375 sq foot of oak parquet, and level the
wood of all the gouges took about 4.5 hours with an RO 150 and a RO 90...

there are encapsulation coatings for lead contaminated surfaces, but they are a lot more
money than sandpaper, and don't remove the problem.

the dust extraction on that floor was good enough that we didn't use respirators.
as foolish as that sounds, if you have never used festool sanders, you will be surprised.

 

[Brice Burrell]

First, welcome to the FOG. [thumbs up]

I'm a general contractor and I have some experience with type of work.  You gotten some good advice so far.  As Alamont said you better be prepared to spend a lot of your time doing hard work. 

.....i'll bet a cheeseburger your lead test comes back positive. that means without
abatement, you get to disclose the lead on future escrow, if you sell the property....

Unfortunately testing for lead paint isn't always a good idea.  In fact, I prefer the don't ask, don't tell approach.  I don't know all the legal requirements for disclosure are but it is something you are going to have to consider if (read when) your test comes back positive. 

...your sanding dust will be minimal, and as was mentioned above, as homeowners, you are
not bound by all the regulations an abatement contractor will have......

 

Several people have mentioned this issue and they are correct, as the home owners you are not required to follow the same rules RRP or abatement contractors have to.  However, it might still be a good idea to follow the EPA's guidelines.  You can find some important info on this page at the EPA's website.

Now for specific tools.  My recommendations are largely the same as you have already received.  First, I say go with a smaller dust extractor, I think the CT Mini would be perfect if you are going to have one person sanding at a time.  If you want to have two people sanding at once they you'll need the Y adapter that FulThrotl mentioned.  The problem is the Y adapter won't work with the CT Mini or CT Midi.  You'll need to get one of the larger CT vacs, I'd recommend the CT26.  Also someone mentioned a long hose, that's not a bad idea and also one of these three way plug adapters to plug into the vac to allow you run more than one sander at a time.  Okay one more important thing about vacs that you'll want to know, see below.

all the new festool dcs are now fully hepa cert...including the mini/midi fyi

Well, this isn't completely correct.  There are still the older models CT22 and CT33 vacs for sale that aren't HEPA certified.  Also there is new old stock vacs that don't have the "certified" HEPA filters included.  Be sure to call the your Festool dealer and ask if they have the newest "HEPA certified" vacs in stock.  This is particularly important with the CT Mini and Midi since there were recent improvements to these models that the older stock units won't have.  Be sure to order extra filter bags if you'll be doing a lot of sanding.  Be sure to get the self cleaning bags, not the older style paper bags. 

Sanders, you'll probably want more than one.  I'd go with the RO125 and the RO90 sanders.  For the RO125 For abrasives I recommend the following grits 40, 60 and 80 in Cristal and 100 in Granat.  For the RO90, for the round paper, Granat in 40-100 and the delta paper in Cristal 40, 60, 80.  I'd get 50 count boxes of all the abrasives.

Other tool, carbide scrapers and extra blades.  Drop cloths, plastic sheeting to cover the ground to collect the paint chips and paint drips.  Gloves, safety glasses and quality respirators.  There will be more that you'll figure out as you go. 

Now the big one, ladders/scaffolding.  If you aren't familiar with setting up and working from ladders then I'd strongly recommend you rent scaffold and go with a company that will set it up for you.  Otherwise you'll be buying or borrowing ladders if you don't have your own collection of ladders.  Don't underestimate the importance of a good, safe setup.  You'll get the job done much fast and easier with the right setup.

Good luck.                                   

 

 

[Sparktrician]

While I generally agree with almost everyone here so far, I think I'd be using a RAS with Rubin (60 or 100) and a CT36 with 36mm hoses for bulk removal of old paint to save time (and money) in changing full bags, then switch to either the RO125 or RO90 to get the best finish prior to painting.  Granat is wonderful on the RO125 or RO90 and lasts a bunch longer than Brilliant. 

[smile]

 

[Brice Burrell]

While I generally agree with almost everyone here so far, I think I'd be using a RAS with Rubin (60 or 100) and a CT36 with 36mm hoses for bulk removal of old paint to save time (and money) in changing full bags, then switch to either the RO125 or RO90 to get the best finish prior to painting.  Granat is wonderful on the RO125 or RO90 and lasts a bunch longer than Brilliant. 

[smile]

The D36 hose won't connect to the sanders as is.  I happen to like the Granat abrasives but they have a thin paper backing and that makes them less suitable for heavy duty removal tasks than the abrasives with a thicker backing.     

 

[Sparktrician]

While I generally agree with almost everyone here so far, I think I'd be using a RAS with Rubin (60 or 100) and a CT36 with 36mm hoses for bulk removal of old paint to save time (and money) in changing full bags, then switch to either the RO125 or RO90 to get the best finish prior to painting.  Granat is wonderful on the RO125 or RO90 and lasts a bunch longer than Brilliant. 

[smile]

The D36 hose won't connect to the sanders as is.  I happen to like the Granat abrasives but they have a thin paper backing and that makes them less suitable for heavy duty removal tasks than the abrasives with a thicker backing.       

Quite so regarding the hose, Brice.  Bob Marino sells an adapter whip that down-converts from the 36mm hose to the 27mm fittings on the sanders.  I don't disagree regarding the thicker backings, but note that Granat has a good life-span and clears quickly. 

[smile]

 

[FulThrotl]

While I generally agree with almost everyone here so far, I think I'd be using a RAS with Rubin (60 or 100) and a CT36 with 36mm hoses for bulk removal of old paint to save time (and money) in changing full bags, then switch to either the RO125 or RO90 to get the best finish prior to painting.  Granat is wonderful on the RO125 or RO90 and lasts a bunch longer than Brilliant.  

[smile]

The D36 hose won't connect to the sanders as is.  I happen to like the Granat abrasives but they have a thin paper backing and that makes them less suitable for heavy duty removal tasks than the abrasives with a thicker backing.      

Quite so regarding the hose, Brice.  Bob Marino sells an adapter whip that down-converts from the 36mm hose to the 27mm fittings on the sanders.  I don't disagree regarding the thicker backings, but note that Granat has a good life-span and clears quickly.  

[smile]

if i'm doing stuff up in the air, either on a scaffold or ladders, with multiple sanders,
my thought would be to put a vac on the ground underneath, a 25' extension cord
up to a 3 port cord cap, a 36mm long hose up to the working
level, the "Y" connector, and the two little hoses to each sander... that way, either
person turning on a sander pulls in the vac, and your cord and hose weight is minimal.

what works well, is the first person going along with the RO 150 and 24 grit paper in
aggressive mode, speed setting #2, and the second person going behind them with
80 grit, cleaning up on agressive mode, and switching back
and forth between aggressive and fine mode without changing paper.... that will leave
you with an 80 grit fine scratch pattern, and good adhesion for an airless spray, and the
airless will fill in any sanding scratches. it also means you only need two different papers.

doing this off ladders if two stories would be torturous. i use little giant ladders, and i have
a stretchy beam to go between them... i move them up a couple clicks at a time, and it lets me
get a lot done with minimal ladder dancing.

if i had a huge amount of wall to do, like a two story and clear access to the base of the wall,
i can rent a scissor lift around here for a couple hundred a week, put the vac on it, and rock.
you run it up to the top, and lower down, sanding as you go... get to the bottom, and move it
six feet.... and if the terrain didn't permit that, i'd get a little zoom boom... about the same
rental cost from el cheapo lifts. com, and while not as fast or comfortable as a scissor lift,
falling off an extension ladder sucks.

and if you are hot for all this, this month is 10% off on sanders, combo packages of sanders
and vacs, and sandpaper.......

it's time to load up the money gun.

edit:

there really is an el cheapo lift... honest.
i've used them a bunch. plumbing contracors,
who started this as a sideline.... nice folks.

 

[PaulMarcel]

The Romans would wonder what all the fuss is about lead... boil some wine in it and it makes it taste better  [tongue]

 

[Norm St.Onge]

I just finished a similar job. Started with the CT22 and it's just too big unless you have miles of hose, went to the mini for portability - easy to lug up ladders, staging and fits into the basket of of an aerial lift (if you can rent an aerial lift locally it will speed up the work tremendously - and is safer too). You might use a couple more bags in a mini than one fo the bigger vacs but so what, in the scheme of thigns it's short money.

I used this: http://www.dustlessdepot.com/ChipBuddie_Dustless_Paint_Scraper_And_Popcorn_Ceil_p/61001.htm for the loose paint and scraping and then shifted to the 125 for sanding. It worked well but as others have mentioned it's alot of grunt work. I can't imagine using a Rotex for any length of time while perched up on a ladder but whatever works for you.

IMO, you don't have to follow the full RRP regs but some of the basic set-up requirements are easy and just make good sense if you have kids or pets.

Good luck, -Norm

 

[Dan Clark]

With the help of two other fellows, I just refinished (and partially rebuilt) three decks on my house. It was in horrible condition and the prior stain had to be removed completely.  Factor in a several vertical walls, planters, and benches.  Prep was major grunt work.

At times we had thee sanders going - two on the CT22 via Y splitter (worked very well) and one on the CT26. The RO90 is a must have IMO.  And I found Granat to be excellent for stripping work - much better than Abranet and Abranet HD.  (I really dislike the HD.). However...

While my RO150 worked very well on the flats, my Mirka Ceros was easier to work with and faster. For the verticle surfaces, the the Ceros was far better.  The RO150 weighs 5 lbs while the Ceros weighs just 2 lbs. For vertical work, you feel that extra 3 lbs immediately. Since I was paying for the other fellows' time, I always got the RO90 or Ceros.  [smile]

Regards,

Dan.

 

[purplemoneypit]

Thanks everyone for your responses!  OMG FulthrotL your response (s) blew my mind.  Thanks for outlining the project equipment wise plus for your other suggestions i.e.  the Y on the dust collector..hopefully my husband will be able to help..he usually is a golf pro until October but this year it looks like the golf course he has been the pro at for last 3 years is going belly up! So a little more time at home [big grin]

Alamont I am grateful to hear someone else tackled this type of project. Yes old houses are cool..We had 4 houses in our neighborhood recently with original wood clapboard siding changed to vinyl..modern rail height on their porch..What a shame.. Thank you for posting about using abatron for the nails..we were planning on using it to repair our columns..You didn't happen to have blown insulation plugs on the exterior?  [big grin] Also wondered if the silent paint remover is worth the $$ We are about to buy one to strip the interior trim with 5 layers of paint plus shellac.