Felder K700S - AD741 - RL160

[Timtool]

My new toys arrived last month after 3 months of patience, took me 2 weeks to install and it's not nearly finished but i can at least continue to work for now.

I had Robland machines before and though i was satisfied i had the means to upgrade, so i did. I also had to do major transformations in my workplace, the biggest included building a floor 20 meter long above the area where i put my stationary machines. This so i could put the DC above and have more storage room, plus a lower ceiling above the machines and better lighting.

For this task i asked as part of the prize i won last year, the portable 245mm wide planer and 200mm chain saw from festool. these were really great to plane and cut the rough douglas posts and beams that would support the floor

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I could not have cut or planed these otherwise as by hand...

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I also invested in a used and battered fork lift, as i was alone to do all this it was like having 5 guys to help!

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What took the longest was cutting the floor beams all to custom size, as the wall they rest on is neither flat or straight. So with a laser level i measured the cut i had to make in each beam to make the top flat...

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Below is the part that will be above the machines, i left that for the last so i only had to dismantle my machines at the last moment. this used to be a cow stable, now converted to machine hall and my workshop.

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The is the AD741 planer/jointer in place, the options i took were electronic height and silent power spiral cutter.

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This is the K700S panel saw, the options i took were wider rip cut table, up to 1m30, a scoring blade and the ability to mount a dado type cutter tool

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Spiral cutter, so far i am really pleased with the finish it gives, it is flawless without any lines and doesn't seem to gum up as i feared. Even after a large quantity of pine

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A 300mm blade and a 100mm scoring blade

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On top the RL160 DC, it automatically starts and stops with the machines now, on this image it is not connected yet to the DC

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So far i can continue working as customers are getting impatientn but i would need to perfect the DC system, complete the central pressured are tubings that i installed to have the compressor above and several outlets below.
I also need to build an outfeed table for the panel saw with wood storage below.

Everything is not perfect with the machines yet, but i will post my findings in a separate reply.

 

[bkharman]

Wow Tim. You are in the big leagues now my friend!!

That is a nice sized shop. I know you do a lot in the Agriculture area so you need the shop space but also a storage space and it looks like you hit it in the head.

You also picked up some very nice machines there. Must have won quite a few contests!! 

Congrats and I really like that platform structure you made.

 

[Kev]

I'm very jealous!

Hey, at least we can all sleep in the hay when we visit [big grin] [wink]

 

[Timtool]

Here are my initial pro's and cons after about a week of use:

K700S,

pros
- really solid, smooth and relatively silent to operate
- adjustment settings are easy
- very complete manual
- installing the dado type cutter is faster than i thought and it works great.

cons
- replacing the blade requires almost 3 hands, some of the parts are very small and waiting to drop in the DC tubing
- settings were not all spot on. I had to adjust the cross cut bar and rip guide which takes a few hours to get right. These are supposed to come set exactly right.
- Blade is 0,15mm out of alignment (front to back) which causes the rear of the blade to mark the wood on one side.
- riving knife not centered exactly on the blade, it pinches wood against the rip guide.
- No "looking glass" on the cross cut stops, just a flat piece of transparent plastic with a red line, not as easy to set as my cheaper Robland which has a looking glass that scaled up the scale.
- Ripping guide is extremely hard to lock/unlock, my girlfriend would not be able to unlock the lever. When you lock it you also need to push down on the guide with the other hand because the huge weight you have to put on the lever lifts up the entire guide.
- reading the scale next to the ripping guide is not as easy as on my Robland, depending on where you position your head you can easily be off by half a mm.
- The stops on the cross cut guide can not be set smaller than 180mm, on my robland it was 60mm... Not sure how you are supposed to do those cuts that are under 18cm?? I will need to make a jig or use the rip guide as a stop, but it's a more dangerous method i like to avoid.
- the blade/dust cover is too short and doesn't capture the dust made when the blade exits the workpiece, only the dust lifted up by the back of the blade is captured.
- The blade/dust cover has a sharp edge at the front which blocks or pushes back your workpiece when it hits it, this means you have to block the cover in horizontal position and not leave it floating. On my Robland it was longer, smoother and i could let it float so that the blade was always hidden which felt safer.

AD741

Pro
- excellent finish
- low noise, even though the difference is not huge.
- ability to replace/rotate damaged cutters without having to change everything
- solid guide
- height is easily adjusted with a simple lever and you can read the scale.
- switching from jointing to planing is quick and easy

Cons
- on mine the belt driving the block was way too lose and made a terrifying scream each time you turned it on, i had to open the sides and tension it. there i noticed my machine is not as the one pictured in the manual, and the bolt i needed to tension was not where it was supposed to be, two removed panels later i finally found it on the opposite side.
- Since i tensioned this belt the second planing speed no longer works, not sure if these are related
- selecting the speeds and /or neutral is done by a lever which is not the most accessible and it will take some time to get used to it's awkward action.
- to go from planing to jointing the table needs to be at least at 200mm low, lowering the table requires you to hold the button for close to 20 seconds depending on how high it was. I really wish there was an automatic function where you press one button and the table lowers automatically low enough for the dust cover to rotate under it.
- there is no easy way to remove the guide, my planer is set right next to the table saw, with my previous Robland jointer i could completely remove the guide  with one lever and clear the table for when i need to cross cut very long parts that reach over the jointer.
- the protection cover is the same rubbish that comes standard with every jointer these days, exactly the same as on my 3 times less expensive Robland. Needless to say i removed it after giving it a try.

RL160

Pros
- It sucks! don't hold your hand in front of the hole to see if it sucks enough, it will swallow your arm!
The first days i didn't have the blast gates yet so i worked with 4 gates open and it sucked enough to work normally.
- relatively silent

Cons
- i only filled it once so far, but the bag closest to the gate was full while the other was half full. Doesn't seem to evenly fill the bags. So with a 400L capacity you only have an actual autonomy of 300L?
- One of the bags was torn on the upper edge after only one use, could be due to bad manipulation or placement on my part, getting the bags in and under appears delicate at first sight but i think it will get easier on the go.

I will contact service about some of these issues, especially the blade alignment and speed issue on the jointer need to be checked out by a service guy.
the list of cons looks big, but i am sure i will grow used to them in time and it doesn't change the fact that these machines seem and feel mechanically very well built.
By the way is there still a FOG for Felder? I tried connecting to it on Yahoo but can't manage to, Yahoo looks like it hasn't changed since the last time i saw it in computer class back in 2000... is it dead?

 

[RussellS]

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/felder-woodworking/info

Felder Owners Group on Yahoo is a the above site.

 

[Timtool]

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/felder-woodworking/info

Felder Owners Group on Yahoo is a the above site.

That's the one yes, but when i log in using my google account it asks me to create a yahoo profile with a link, and then i get lost in all kinds of incomprehensible menus leading nowhere with no mention of a Yahoo profile or what i actually need to do.

 

[junk731]

Tim its always a good idea to pay for commissioning on the sliders. I'm assuming you had the saw delivered and had to install the slider. If this is the case it could be connected to your alignment problem with the blade. The slider has to be setup properly in relation to blade and definitely not parallel. The lock on the rip fence is tight on all Felders, its that way so when you have a monkey working on the machine and slams a 5' x 10' x 1" piece of MDF into the fence it doesn't move. Have fun with your new toys. If you have any real problems getting setup in the other FOG feel free to contact me offline.

John

 

[Timtool]

Tim its always a good idea to pay for commissioning on the sliders. I'm assuming you had the saw delivered and had to install the slider. If this is the case it could be connected to your alignment problem with the blade ...

Nope, over here it's the official dealer that installs and sets everything right before delivering it. Everything is supposed to come set perfectly right ready for use.
All i had to do was attach the table to the slider. After i installed them a representative came by to check and explain everything, and to their credit everything seemed nearly perfect, but we tested on smaller pieces of panel and i didn't have dc installed yet. But after actually really using them i found the errors.
When i cross cut a panel on the slider and placed the cut side against the rip fence it would touch on one end, and leave a 1mm gap on the other. After more testing i found out both fences were were slightly off. And again to Felders credit they are very easy to adjust.

About the blade mis alignment, this only became obvious once i set the fences straight. When i place my digital caliper on the slider against the blade front, and then slide the slider forward, then you have a difference of about 0,1 to 0,2mm over the length of the blade. it's minimal but apparently enough for the rear of the blade to gouge your workpiece.
I don't know if the error is in the blade or in the slider and i don't think it really matters either one needs to be adjusted but its not my job and i have spend many hours already on adjusting things that should have been set right in the first place.

I had the same problem previously with the Hammers, on the shaper the axle 90 degree stop was off by a little. I only found out after gluing several table tops together and finding out they were concave... It's a funny anecdote now, but at the time i couldn't really laugh! The fence jaws were also not perfectly in line.
On the Band saw the fence was not in line with the blade, but you notice that immediately and it's an easy fix. Not such a big deal.

 

[junk731]

Tim I believe perfectly set is a relative term. What it means to Felder and what we think perfectly set means. Felder has some pretty broad specs in certain adjustments. I will say that when my K700S Pro came I paid for setup and delivery and it cut perfect. I haven't had to touch anything in 4 years. I did adjust the verticle and bevel stops so I could get over 0 degrees and to 47 degrees. It sounds like you have a dealer that will take care of your problems.

John

 

[pierwood]

I have the same issues with Yahoo. No way to connect or create account from the user group.
Hope you can fix all your problems with the Felder stuff.
Pier