Festool 850 Planer

[GJ]

Hi, I'm new to this forum and did not see a word search feature on the home page so I'm not sure if this planer has been discussed. Anyway, I just received the 850 yesterday and have two issues: 1) although the front plate is dead flat, the rear plate is not flat - it's has a 12thou bow in it from front to back. At least it's bowed down (both front and back edges of the plate register on the work surface) instead of up, so maybe this is not a concern in practice. The cutter appears flush with the front edge of the back plate, but it's hard to tell for sure because of the spiral design 2) When set in the Park position, it cuts at a depth of 5 thou. When set at the "0" position, it cuts at 10 thou. This is a problem because I can't measure increments of under 10 thou and, in any event, can't cut less than 5 thou. You can assume that I know how to start a cut with this tool and that I used a dead flat piece of oak and an accurate feeler gauge for the test cuts.

That said, the motor and dust collection run beautifully and the quality of the cut surface is very nice. I'm curious as to whether these problems are common, or if this one is just a lemon. I need to decide whether to send it back for a refund or exchange it for a non-lemon. Thanks

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

Welcome to the forum. I hope my comments don't come across as insensitive, but this is a woodworking tool. I don't know of any application where someone would need accuracy to thousands of an inch (edited for clarification) on the flatness of the baseplate.

That said, please feel free to swap under our 30 day return policy if you aren't satisfied with the tool. However, I don't know what the tolerances are for the plate and can't guarantee that you will find one that is within ten thousands of an inch, which seems to be the goal.

Shane

 

[GJ]

The human finger can easily feel 1 thou. A 10 thou depth of cut is huge. When planing out by hand, I often take shavings of about 2 thou per pass. As mentioned, I'm not so concerned about the plate as I am being able to adjust depth of cut --- starting from zero. This will go back and I'll stick with my LN hand planes. I have other Festools and paid the premium over similar tools for accuracy and dust collection. If one is just truing up studs or other similar tasks, I would agree with your comment (but might be just as happy with a much cheaper Bosch or, for that matter, hammer and chisel [laughing]).

 

[tbellemare]

When set in the Park position, it cuts at a depth of 5 thou.

Are you perhaps using a Rustic Head? They don't park.

Tom

 

[GJ]

Tom, I purchased the machine new and it's just the head that came installed on it. I did check the blade to make sure it was fully seated and it appears to be. Unless a rustic head was stuck in there by mistake (probably not likely, but possible, I guess)? I have not seen the rustic head so I'll get a picture and take a look just to be sure.

Forgetting about not Parking for a minute. the machine starts cutting 10thou at Zero. If I am reading the instructions correctly, depth of cut should be zero (no wood removal) at "0" on the handle, and I should then be able to very precisely increase the depth of cut from there, each click corresponding to 0.1mm. Seems like the infeed table (in jointer-speak) isn't being moved up high enough by the handle...the two are not properly synchronized.

As mentioned, if this is just unique to mine, I'd probably swap it for another one...I do like the feel and operation of it over all.

GJ

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

GJ,

The HL 850 can be adjusted for zero. If you need assistance with that, contact our service department and they can describe the process over the phone.

Basically, place a straight edge from front to rear, adjust the large bolt on the front plate until the blade is flush with the straight edge.

I was referring to the plate with my previous comment. I checked with the guys in service and the rear plate is made to be very slightly concave and your measurements for it are within spec.

Shane

 

[tbellemare]

Tom, I purchased the machine new and it's just the head that came installed on it. I did check the blade to make sure it was fully seated and it appears to be. Unless a rustic head was stuck in there by mistake (probably not likely, but possible, I guess)? I have not seen the rustic head so I'll get a picture and take a look just to be sure.

Forgetting about not Parking for a minute. the machine starts cutting 10thou at Zero. If I am reading the instructions correctly, depth of cut should be zero (no wood removal) at "0" on the handle, and I should then be able to very precisely increase the depth of cut from there, each click corresponding to 0.1mm. Seems like the infeed table (in jointer-speak) isn't being moved up high enough by the handle...the two are not properly synchronized.

As mentioned, if this is just unique to mine, I'd probably swap it for another one...I do like the feel and operation of it over all.

GJ

It sounds like there is something out of calibration. On mine, the blade is barely retracted in the park position with the Standard Head on it. It doesn't cut in that position. With the depth setting at zero "0", the blade is even with the front table.

Tom

It looks like Shane beat me to it...

 

[deepcreek]

I have an 850 and the standard cutter can be registered to zero so that the depth of cut adjusted in 1/10mm increments or roughly 4 thousandths of an inch (0.004).

The OP's concern is over "10 thousands" in machinist terminology which translates to 1/100th of an inch for an American woodworker or roughly 0.25mm for everyone else.

I do not think a piece of Oak is precise enough to measure flatness.  A steel straightedge or granite surface plate would be a better choice.

 

[Tinker]

I have the 850 and I can adjust so it cuts "0" at the "0" setting.
I don't remember having any problems with original setup other than not being used to operating a power hand planer before the 850 found its way into my shop.

I eventually came hoe with the bench mount and fence and I had no problem with setting that up either.
The Rustic cylinder does not seat to zero. 
Tinker

 

[GJ]

PROBLEM SOLVED! In about 30 seconds. I adjusted the front plate using the bolt as recommended (a note on alignment in the manual would have saved all this fuss...or maybe I just missed it!). Anyway, works fine now and, for those of you troubled by talking in terms of thousandths, I can now get it to take off just a smidge, a teeny tiny, eesny weensy amount, a hair (4thou), a tad, a very fine shaving, or anything in between [smile]. I'm happy now.

As far as plate flatness, it's probably better to be slightly concave that to risk going convex. Concave won't rock, convex could. As many of you probably know, some of the Japanese chisels (and a couple of my older hand planes) are hollow in the sole - work fine as long as the edges register with the work surface.

I am impressed with the speed and degree of attention generated on this forum. Thanks to those who responded.

GJ

 

[semenza]

PROBLEM SOLVED! In about 30 seconds. I adjusted the front plate using the bolt as recommended (a note on alignment in the manual would have saved all this fuss...or maybe I just missed it!). Anyway, works fine now and, for those of you troubled by talking in terms of thousandths, I can now get it to take off just a smidge, a teeny tiny, eesny weensy amount, a hair (4thou), a tad, a very fine shaving, or anything in between [smile]. I'm happy now.

As far as plate flatness, it's probably better to be slightly concave that to risk going convex. Concave won't rock, convex could. As many of you probably know, some of the Japanese chisels (and a couple of my older hand planes) are hollow in the sole - work fine as long as the edges register with the work surface.

I am impressed with the speed and degree of attention generated on this forum. Thanks to those who responded.

GJ

Welcome to the FOG! GJ

The above is pretty standard here.  [smile]

Seth

 

[AIPDX]

As far as plate flatness, it's probably better to be slightly concave that to risk going convex. Concave won't rock, convex could. As many of you probably know, some of the Japanese chisels (and a couple of my older hand planes) are hollow in the sole - work fine as long as the edges register with the work surface.

I found this discussion quite amusing. I observed similar issues with the planer which I got recently, and in my view, the planer is just not up to the Festool standards. The planer which I got has concavity of the rear sole plate of 0.15 mm (0.006"). The front sole is not parallel to the rear sole, it is tilted and in its best aligned to the rear sole position its front is 0.4 mm (0.016") off the plane which goes through two high points in the rear sole and the back of the front sole. The blade sticks out by 0.3 mm (0.012") over the geometrical plane which goes through the front and bottom of the concave rear sole and through the rear of the tilted front sole. The blade cannot be adjusted / reset better than that. Additionally, the front sole is twisted so that its front is 0.5 mm off the line that goes along the side of the rear sole, but this is the least of my worries.

I went to the Home Depot and checked how their planers on display look like. Using a straight edge, I found that Bosch and Makita have perfectly flat rear sole and front sole coplanar with the rear, as far as I could see with the naked eye. Ryobi, with its rear sole which is reminiscent of a cheap iron for ironing clothes, also has flat soles and also coplanar. Blade position is adjustable in all those planers.

Apparently, soles can be made flat and coplanar in Chinese factories. However, it appears to be too much to ask from a German factory. This is ridiculous, guys. HL850 was designed as an ultimate tool which is accurate without adjustments. This design is challenging to make as rear sole is one solid piece which includes the motor housing and cutting head housing. No adjustments are included in this design. It has to be made extremely precise to work as intended. This accuracy, evidently, was not met in manufacturing.

I think Festool should take this seriously and address it. It is just so different from its other tools which are precise and adjustable.

I am going to return this unit within the 30 days policy. I'd love to get another HL850  which is accurate and well aligned. It is a nice tool when accurately made. I sincerely hope that the planer that I got is a lemon. However, this discussion suggests that they all may be like that - not flat, not aligned, not align-able. In this case, getting a one that is perfect is a big gamble. If other FOG members could comment on how their planers are close to alignment (or far from it), it would be much appreciated. 

 

[Linbro]

I got mine a few weeks ago, a new one, not reconditioned. I didn't check anything with straight edges etc. - just picked it up, plugged in and used it. I've owned five or six planers, over the years, and the best way to check is to plane something - inaccuracies show themselves straight away with power planers, in my experience. The 850's performance was exceptional, but I'm going to check my plates for straight, and see if they're co-planar. Will report back.

 

[AIPDX]

Thanks, Linbro. I took my planer to the dealer who I bought it from, returned it, and picked up another one. At first glance, it appears to be much better aligned. I would need to get a straight edge and a feeler gauge to quantify the difference, but I hope it will be much better.

 

[sancho57]

Dood,

I dont and wouldnt sweat .0010. A nose hair is 003- 005, dont ask me how I know that.

Bottom line what are you using that sort of planer for.  They are not precision tools. + or- a couple of thou isnt that big of a deal.

I use mine for cleaning up a edge saw marks etc ensuring its 90' to the sides. I take a woodpecker square to check it. As long as its a perfect 90, Im good.

Your not building the space shuttle

 

[Tinker]

When I use the 850, I get it close (for me/maybe way off for my dad's work when he was alive),I will then finish off with hand planes, maybe the wood rasps and finally, with scraper and then with sanding if necessary. 

I seldom get to finish what I started on the same day I started. If I start something any where between March 1 and December 1, it could be weeks, or even months before i can get back to finish, or even get to complete the step I was working on the day i had to stop.  Sometimes, between steps, there can be quite a bit of wood movement and i might have to touch up what I had thought was (nearly) "purfic" before, but now I can see spaces where there were none when I last looked. 

I am sure there is always movement in wood. My work is far from precise, but i do try to take into consideration that movement is going to occur and try to work to eliminate such problems.  I don't get all spastic if the fit is not within .001.  two days later, it might be .01.  But it goes together and the glue holds.  And you can't see the glue line.  I don't own a micrometer.  Straight edges, rulers and squares are all I have and all I have ever used.  I did buy a battery operated caliper (the kind with digital read out) but every time i would get it out, i had to take a trip to store for new battery.  That is now so far down deep in a corner somewhere, I will probably never find it.  But I still make projects that fit together and I don't lose a lot of sleep worrying about them.  Most of what I make are for friends.  They display out for all to see, so i am sure they have not noticed if there is maybe .001" of warp or out of square.  They are happy and I am happy.  They, nor I, can not see such imperfections. 

I am working on a serving tray right now (among other projects).  I resawed a piece of walnut for the bottom.  The two pieces looked perfectly flat before I glued together.  They looked perfectly flat after they were glued together and I sanded.  BUT, I had to leave the glued up piece on the bench for a week or two while I went back to work at my day job.  By the time I got back to even look at the piece, it had a twist.  I put a primary finish on it (both sides)anyway, clamped it down on a flat surface with spacers between the piece and the flat surface so it could get air all around and left it for a couple of weeks.  I unclamped it yesterday and checked it.  By eye there was no more warp or twist.  But, I did not have time to work on trimming the edges.  I am sure that when I go back down to shop later today, there will be twist where yesterday there was none.  I will reclamp while I work on a much larger project I have started. I am not sure the twist will be gone when I get back to it and once I make the sides, I will fit that bottom into the side rabbets and the whole thing will fit and the twist will not come back once assembly.  Oh, and there will be slight space all around for that bottom to move around.  The sides will move as well, but the five pieces will not fight each other. And my friend will be happy with the result.  I will have no idea how many .000's off everything was or will be.  It fits and will not break or split from wood movement. 
Tinker

 

[carlb40]

I am working on a serving tray right now (among other projects).  I resawed a piece of walnut for the bottom.  The two pieces looked perfectly flat before I glued together.  They looked perfectly flat after they were glued together and I sanded.  BUT, I had to leave the glued up piece on the bench for a week or two while I went back to work at my day job.  By the time I got back to even look at the piece, it had a twist.  I put a primary finish on it (both sides)anyway, clamped it down on a flat surface with spacers between the piece and the flat surface so it could get air all around and left it for a couple of weeks.  I unclamped it yesterday and checked it.  By eye there was no more warp or twist.  But, I did not have time to work on trimming the edges.  I am sure that when I go back down to shop later today, there will be twist where yesterday there was none.  I will reclamp while I work on a much larger project I have started. I am not sure the twist will be gone when I get back to it and once I make the sides, I will fit that bottom into the side rabbets and the whole thing will fit and the twist will not come back once assembly.  Oh, and there will be slight space all around for that bottom to move around.  The sides will move as well, but the five pieces will not fight each other. And my friend will be happy with the result.  I will have no idea how many .000's off everything was or will be.  It fits and will not break or split from wood movement. 
Tinker

Hope i'm teaching you to suck eggs  [embarassed]
With panels such as that, after glue up if i cannot use it right away. I put it somewhere flat with timber stickers below / above and put some weight on the top stickers to help keep it flat. I also leave it over size by a good amount while it settles, so it can be planed/ trimmed to final dimensions when i'm ready for it.  [smile]

 

[Tinker]

That's basically what I am doing.  At first, i used clamps at the corners with stickers underneath.  When i needed the clamps elsewhere, I left the stickers underneath but put some books on top with stickers between the books and the panel.  In a day or so, when i get a rainy day, I will be trimming to size and making sides for the tray.  I checked this evening and the panel seems to have settled flat, but will leave it weighted and stickered until final fitting.

In the past when making this sort of tray, I have used 1/4" plywood.  This is the first time i have tried a tray using resawn to 5/16" thickness.  I have made panel doors and panel sides to cabinets, but the overall thickness for those were resawn to 1/2" or more.  This is the first with such a thin panel other than plywood.

Tinker

 

[sancho57]

I was making some picture frames today, cut some material, then set up the 850 bench stand on my MFT, it cleaned up the edges nicely. Then I noticed a couple of pieces were a tad thicker then the other so I used it to rake of a MM or 2 to make them all the same thickness.

 

[Tinker]

I have used the 850 to edge joint as well as face plane an squaring.  I have done a few frames using the grooving heads as well.  I have also done rabbets for the backs of the frames.  I have not tried the rustic head yet, but am planning to try this fall on a couple of Christmas presents.

It is very simple and quick to change cutting heads, even for someone as simple as ... well, er, ah,  [embarassed]  [unsure] I guess you get my point.
Tinker