Festool Air Scrubber

[Boski]

Is anyone here going to buy the air scrubber? Does look like a neat little bit of kit.

I work in a small garage and there isn't much ventilation. I always see little bit floating around, so I'm tempted.

 

[six-point socket II]

Yes, but not for workshop use. It’s going to replace an aging “ventilation unit with filter and hose” that I use to extract dust from otherwise sealed off areas I work in.

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[Boski]

What do you do for work, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[six-point socket II]

It’s not work in terms of occupation/ working for customers. It’s upkeep, maintenance and remodel/renovation of properties we own.

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[Laminator]

I'm very interested, mostly because of the size.  The build clean and the bluedry air scrubbers I use are rather bulky.  I'm looking forward to a video review...

 

[woodbutcherbower]

I’m also very interested. Application will be to reduce superfine airborne dust particles in the homes of customers, especially when doing cutting and routing-heavy tasks such as kitchen installs. As we all know - our extractors grab most of it, but not all of it.

 

[ChuckM]

No matter what air filtration system is used, invest in an air quality monitor.

You may be surprised how bad or how good your shop air is. I have two shop-made air filtration systems in my shop, and most of time, they are not needed when I use my SS PCS table saw and Kapex (because most dust is collected at source).

But some air quality monitors are sold dirt cheap online for $30 or $40 and, according to some YouTube reviews, they give you wrong results.

Without a monitor, you're pretty much flying blind as the most dangerous dust particles are smell-less and invisible.

 

[MikeGE]

No matter what air filtration system is used, invest in an air quality monitor.

You may be surprised how bad or how good your shop air is. I have two shop-made air filtration systems in my shop, and most of time, they are not needed when I use my SS PCS table saw and Kapex (because most dust is collected at source).

But some air quality monitors are sold dirt cheap online for $30 or $40 and, according to some YouTube reviews, they give you wrong results.

Without a monitor, you're pretty much flying blind as the most dangerous dust particles are smell-less and invisible.

I use a Dylos DC1700 every time I work in my shop.  The Dylos, possibly all AQMs, does not distinguish between pollen and airborne wood dust.  It's possible to have a very high 0.5 to 2.5 micron particle count with the ambient air.  I make a note of the starting point for the session and take a break for the air scrubber to work when the >0.5 micron count reaches about 1500 over the ambient level.

 

[ChuckM]

Yes, the AQM starts working as soon as you turn it on whether or not my woodworking session begins. It gives me the baseline as a start, good, air or poor depending on the air quality in my surrounding. We have had some really bad days due to wildfires in B.C. and Jasper, AB, and for occasions like those, I have a couple of box-fan turned air filtration units in the house to handle them when all the windows are closed.

 

[Cheese]

Yes, the AQM starts working as soon as you turn it on whether or not my woodworking session begins. It gives me the baseline as a start, good, air or poor depending on the air quality in my surrounding. We have had some really bad days due to wildfires in B.C. and Jasper, AB, and for occasions like those, I have a couple of box-fan turned air filtration units in the house to handle them when all the windows are closed.

I have a DC1700 and last summer during the wildfires, when the sky was sort of red  [blink], I brought it outside to measure the air quality. It absolutely pegged the meter within a very short period of time. I had not experienced that before. I was just trying to verify the AQ reading on the Dylos vs the AQ reading of a local monitoring service a mile away.

This air scrubber becomes more interesting the more I think about it. The stair refinishing and concrete floor/wall refinishing seems like a natural. A large volume of air removed and scrubbed directly at the source of contamination. That's certainly more efficient than scrubbing an entire room volume of air which is what I do now.

I have a Jet AFS 1000 on casters that I roll around, but it's at ground level and is difficult or impossible to elevate it to within inches of the dust source. It also weighs about 70# mounted on the roll cart vs 22# for the SYS-AIR.

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]

The real shocker is the price of the preliminary filter replacements. 5 each scrubber filters for £82.60 isn't that far off of the replacement price for CT 36 self clean bags at £60.34.

So with the main filter costing £187.21, a guy could error on replacing the preliminary filter more often to stave off the high cost of replacing the main filter.

I wonder if there is/will be a general rule of thumb for preliminary filter replacements per main filter replacement?

 

[mino]

... with the main filter costing £187.21, a guy could error on replacing the preliminary filter more often to stave off the high cost of replacing the main filter.

I wonder if there is/will be a general rule of thumb for preliminary filter replacements per main filter replacement?

This is not about "erring". Unless one is in a super-fine-dust-only setting, the preliminary filter is the one replaced regularly while the microfilter mostly based on when it starts to affect air volume.

When researching industrial class filtration systems (those with 3'x3'x3' size filters), the rule of thumb was about 25:5:1 ratio for general air cleaning needs, with bigger particles /like wood/ it was advised to swap the first prefilter even 10x as much as the second one.

With one prefilter, a 10:1 ratio seems a good rule of thumb for budgeting, but really, the main filter should be done based on air volume (or smell issue), else it is a waste. Will be less so for fine dust from paint, more so for woodworking dust with generally bigger particles.

I see it similar to CT bags and main filters. With some use cases the main filter can last a decade+. With some super-fine dust cases it may need a replacement every bags pack or so. Depends but should last pretty long in a woodworkign setting. Similarly as is with the CTs.

 

[woodbutcherbower]

This new gadget = a plastic box, a vac motor, and a couple of filters - lists at GBP850 - that's 300GBP more than a brand-new TS60.

Let that sink in, people.

As [member=44099]Cheese[/member] also points out, an already-fleeced buyer will then be repeatedly fleeced every time a filter needs replacing. For Festool - this will be the gift which keeps on giving.

I’ve never used price as a yardstick - I’ve always looked at the value, with the best Festool example being my CT-VA-20. Very little material cost and a high price = but mine’s probably paid for itself twice over in bag savings. It’s always a balancing act for manufacturers and customers, and in the case of this, they’re having to price it based on recouping their development costs over a much smaller number of units since it’s a niche purchase. And for me - this tips the scales way too far since it doesn’t add enough value to justify itself. I’ll reluctantly pass. What a shame.

 

[six-point socket II]

The price is absolutely within what other professional M or H class filtered ventilation units cost. And depending on volume/size they can go way beyond that.

Spot dust extraction directly where you work is just one use. The unit can be used for/with sealed work areas. 

(This is not the old school ventilation unit that simply sucks air and spits the dirt wherever the discharge is placed. You see that a lot with work in basements over here, one light well covered in “white” dust … Then you know they simply use a “hosed fan”. At least they use a fan. )

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[kitfit1]

This new gadget = a plastic box, a vac motor, and a couple of filters - lists at GBP850 - that's 300GBP more than a brand-new TS60.

Let that sink in, people.

As [member=44099]Cheese[/member] also points out, an already-fleeced buyer will then be repeatedly fleeced every time a filter needs replacing. For Festool - this will be the gift which keeps on giving.

I’ve never used price as a yardstick - I’ve always looked at the value, with the best Festool example being my CT-VA-20. Very little material cost and a high price = but mine’s probably paid for itself twice over in bag savings. It’s always a balancing act for manufacturers and customers, and in the case of this, they’re having to price it based on recouping their development costs over a much smaller number of units since it’s a niche purchase. And for me - this tips the scales way too far since it doesn’t add enough value to justify itself. I’ll reluctantly pass. What a shame.

Yep, i've looked at this a few times and come to the same conclusion. Particularly in the realms of kitchen fitting.
When i look at the way and methods that i use for machining, be that router, track saw, bench saw or sliding mitre saw. Most of the kitchens i fit are not big enough to machine indoors anyway, which is why i have a pop up 3m x 3m cover for when it rains(and for those in the USA, it rains a lot here in the UK  ). My extractor with the CT-VA-20 has been a complete game changer. Lower cost in bags being the biggest and also less sweeping up, because some dust still ends up on the ground.
This though would be a very expensive niche product and to be honest, might well be even more niche than Festool think it is.

 

[six-point socket II]

Just think outside your specific trade. You might not need one/ not be able to justify the cost of purchase in your specific case.

If you do any type of concrete grinding, chiseling, sanding plaster, large sanding projects like the stairs pictured, retrofitting floor heating, (…) indoors, this is essential. Just like sealing off the work area. This is nothing niche or special, it’s done all the time - Festool did not invent a new product. They just put one in a Systainer (format) and people using their vacs, rollers/ Systainer-System, concrete grinders … will probably appreciate that.

Just one example of various available units:
https://www.zero-dust.de/bau-luftreiniger-bau-entstauber/bau-luftreinigungsgeraete/?p=1

In Germany purchasing one of these is also actively supported = percentage based cash back by the governmental occupational health and safety insurer, if you are a member. In this particular instance, 25% of the price without VAT.

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[woodferret]

I wonder how well it'd do as an intake/secondary filter for in-place painting.  I have a large fan with the requisite blue filters for the first stage filter, but find that because of the coarseness required to maintain air flow, it'll capture most, but not all.  The superfine dry airborne still works its way about.  The compactness looks tempting.

 

[Fourmi]

I've pre-ordered one. Hoping it will keep airborne dust under control when at a clients property. If it works as intended, it will pay for itself in reduced clean-up time.

 

[HighlandMarine]

As a marine tradesman, this unit is a bargain for all the ultra fine composite dust we produce. Can’t wait to put one to use.