Festool CMS Router Table/Kapex

[Charles Wilson]

Contemplating the purchase of one of these pieces of equipment and was interested in your impressions of it (CMS).

How big of a bit can the OF 1400 in the table?

As for the Kapex, working with a Harbor Freight 10" SCMS, so it would definitely be an upgrade.  Impressions?

Thanks,
Chuck

 

[Connollyir]

Contemplating the purchase of one of these pieces of equipment and was interested in your impressions of it (CMS).

How big of a bit can the OF 1400 in the table?

As for the Kapex, working with a Harbor Freight 10" SCMS, so it would definitely be an upgrade.  Impressions?

Thanks,
Chuck

I would say thats a minor understatement.... like comparing Civic to a Ferrari.

What kind of work do you do? Do you install a lot of trim/crown moulding to need the dual bevel action of the saw? It is such a tremendous upgrade from what you currently use that you would probably see a lot of improvement from just about any decent chop saw at a significantly lower price, especially if you decide you don't absolutely need a dual bevel saw.

To be clear, I am not trying to knock the Kapex - its a wonderful tool and in the right hands it works magic, but that technology comes at a premium that could be used for other tools.

Bottom line, what are your needs compared to your budget?

-Ian

 

[Charles Wilson]

Hobbyist and DIYer.

Old home with lots of things to do ALWAYS.  Finishing a fence that I can use the bevel on.  Planning on remaking wooden storms for the house to restore back to the way that it was in the 1920's. 

Dust collection is a premium as I am prone to sinus infections.  Wood dust is a big time irritant for me. 

Currently have: TS 75, 1080 workbench, Rotex, and Festool detail sander (along with various lengths of rails)

This would be my major tool purchase for the year.

 

[Runhard]

Hobbyist and DIYer.

Old home with lots of things to do ALWAYS.  Finishing a fence that I can use the bevel on.  Planning on remaking wooden storms for the house to restore back to the way that it was in the 1920's. 

Dust collection is a premium as I am prone to sinus infections.  Wood dust is a big time irritant for me. 

Currently have: TS 75, 1080 workbench, Rotex, and Festool detail sander (along with various lengths of rails)

This would be my major tool purchase for the year.

I needed to make wooden storm windows for my 1930's home 1-1/2 yrs ago and invested in Festool. I used: TS75, MFT/3, OF1400, CT26, Kapex and Domino500. I also used a Kreg router table with PC7815 router with Whiteside window sash bit. I would say that the Domino helped the most. I used cypress wood and would recommend it.

Daniel

 

[semenza]

Hobbyist and DIYer.

Old home with lots of things to do ALWAYS.  Finishing a fence that I can use the bevel on.  Planning on remaking wooden storms for the house to restore back to the way that it was in the 1920's.  

Dust collection is a premium as I am prone to sinus infections.  Wood dust is a big time irritant for me.  

Currently have: TS 75, 1080 workbench, Rotex, and Festool detail sander (along with various lengths of rails)

This would be my major tool purchase for the year.

I needed to make wooden storm windows for my 1930's home 1-1/2 yrs ago and invested in Festool. I used: TS75, MFT/3, OF1400, CT26, Kapex and Domino500. I also used a Kreg router table with PC7815 router with Whiteside window sash bit. I would say that the Domino helped the most. I used cypress wood and would recommend it.

Daniel

Me too, I made a bunch of wood storms over the last year or so and used cypress.  

Chuck, I don't see how you could go wrong with either of those tools.  If you set the Kapex up right, the DC is reeeallly good.

Seth

 

[Connollyir]

Well as far as dust collection, nothing I have used is better than the Kapex, but I'll admit I have only used 5-6 different saws. Beat the hell out of my 12" Dewalt.

I personally like the lasers, though some people may prefer to go to the tooth. My eyesight isn't the best and for me it works. It is adjustable.

The micro bevel adjustments are awesome. I can't really overstate that when trying to dial in a precise angle and do it repeatably.

As far as I am concerned its a light saw which is good for mobility if thats important to you. I also do a lot of work on my knees and I like how you can use a systainer for outfeed support.

I can't speak on longevity because I have only had the opportunity to use a friend's on one job, but I was impressed.

For me I'm going to have to wait for my Dewalt to kick it.

-Ian

 

[skids]

I am a hobbyist/DIYr with an occasional side job here and there, also owner of the Kapex. If you choose to buy Festool, be warned that you are about to step through a portal and once you do there is no turning back.  [wink]

This is great for your projects, and terrible for your wallet.

Honestly though, the Kapex changed the way I thought about my work. There are just so many things about it that make it better to use than ANY other saw. The dusto collection, the bevel (

 

[sancho57]

I was looking at up grading/ changing my router table. I thought the CMS was way to expensive or what I needed/ wanted. Especially when compared to other after market router tables.Well when you add in the cost of a router lift, folding legs, outfeed table and sliding table and fence combined with portability and its part of the festool system

I still wasnt convinced :>D.

But I had somethings happened where I felt it would be a good idea to buy the CMS as I might be able to get the other modules.

Well I bought the GE version with all the accessories.

I must say that I am very pleasantly surprised. The craftsmanship  and quality were excellent and it actually exceeded my expectations. Really feel I got my $$ worth. 

 

[Runhard]

I was looking at up grading/ changing my router table. I thought the CMS was way to expensive or what I needed/ wanted. Especially when compared to other after market router tables.Well when you add in the cost of a router lift, folding legs, outfeed table and sliding table and fence combined with portability and its part of the festool system

I still wasnt convinced :>D.

But I had somethings happened where I felt it would be a good idea to buy the CMS as I might be able to get the other modules.

Well I bought the GE version with all the accessories.

I must say that I am very pleasantly surprised. The craftsmanship  and quality were excellent and it actually exceeded my expectations. Really feel I got my $$ worth.   

I'm kind of in the same boat. I have a pretty new Kreg router table, kreg lift, PC7518 and a few other accessories with very light use (in fact I made 5 storm windows with it and haven't used it since.) If I could sell it for around $1000 I would buy the CMS. I initially thought it was too expensive, but after thinking about dust collection, the systems approach, and reading the good reviews I will probably end up buying one... Now time to put my kreg router table setup in the classifieds  [smile]

So to the OP, I can highly recommend the Kapex and wish that the CMS was available when I was searching for my router table 16 months ago.

 

[Rocky]

I have the same router table setup and just about everything that Kreg makes never used because of the dust.  Thinking about the CMS also.

 

[mouppe]

Contemplating the purchase of one of these pieces of equipment and was interested in your impressions of it (CMS).

How big of a bit can the OF 1400 in the table?

As for the Kapex, working with a Harbor Freight 10" SCMS, so it would definitely be an upgrade.  Impressions?

Thanks,
Chuck

There's more than one answer to that question.  [unsure]

I came up with a safe and easy workaround to use 3 1/2" panel raising bits in my OF1400 when mounted in a CMS, but the straightforward answer is nearer to 2 1/2" if you want to normally raise and lower the bit through the table aperture.

 

[Charles Wilson]

Dust collection is often a deal breaker for me.  Although I have no clinical diagnosis, I am prone to sinus infections most often after I have worked with wood and have created copious amounts of dust.  Fortunately this isn't as much of a problem when I work outside.  Unfortunately, this cuts down on the amount of time that I can spend working on things that my wife wants done.  Both the Kapex and the CMS would be welcome additions to my arsenal of Festools. 

Seth - How did you make the storm windows?

Michael - How do you manage to swing a 3 1/2" raised panel bit?

 

[semenza]

Seth - How did you make the storm windows?

They were roughly 3' x 5' two light windows.  Just big rectangles really. I used 5/4 cypress  (thickness was right for the job) rails and stile are somewhere between 3"- 4" wide. 

Just made all the pieces nice and square with good jointing for the connections. Assembled with TiteBond - III and sipo  Dominos. Rabbetted for the glass after assembly, used a corner chisel to clean the corners of the rabbet. The storms  needed to be fitted  for each window (old, old house). So I built them  a little  oversized, and cut them with TS55 to fit. Used four strips of 1/4" plywood to  make a template inside each window opening. Then I was able to just transfer the exact size and shape (nothing square) to the rough sized window for cutting.

Seth

 

[Charles Wilson]

Seth,

You cut the pieces to size, used butt joints (glue and Sipo dominoes), assembled, then ran a rabbet around the inside of the storms, corner chisel to square off, place glass in, then glazing compound?  No running through a router table with rail and stile bit?  I you have pictures, share them please as I have a ton of them to make.

Also, if no rail/stile joinery, what are your expectations for durability?

Thanks

 

[mouppe]

Dust collection is often a deal breaker for me.  Although I have no clinical diagnosis, I am prone to sinus infections most often after I have worked with wood and have created copious amounts of dust.  Fortunately this isn't as much of a problem when I work outside.  Unfortunately, this cuts down on the amount of time that I can spend working on things that my wife wants done.  Both the Kapex and the CMS would be welcome additions to my arsenal of Festools.   

Seth - How did you make the storm windows?

Michael - How do you manage to swing a 3 1/2" raised panel bit?

Hi, I presume the question was directed at me, not Michael!

You need to clamp or stick with double-sided tape a 1/2" piece of material to the top of the CMS with a hole cut out large enough to surround the large bit. This acts as a false table surface. Then you can raise or lower the bit without the problem of the CMS hole being too small. You insert the bit from above the table- this is tricky but can be done with care.

 

[Birdhunter]

I was highly reluctant to buy the Kapex. I had a really good miter saw, but hardly ever used it due to debris it ejected with great vigor. Today, I'm not sure how I would work without the Kapex. I can have my table saw setup for one cut and use the Kapex for another cut. Not sure I'm stating that clearly, but the Kapex saves time and aggravation.

I have a large Woodpeckers router table that I built an enclosure for that's good for dust collection and has a large work surface. If the CMS allowed me to use my 2200 router, I'd probably find room for it.

I'd say the Domino changed how I do woodworking more than any of the other Festool products I own. All the others do what other tools do, just a lot better. The Kapex comes in next.

The twin MFTs come in next, but only after I added an extension with a real vise and beefed up the table's stability.

 

[peter halle]

A little ,ore than a year ago i was asking for router table advice from your guys and hoping that the CMS was going to come out.  I asked about a release date but like you guys I was kept guessing.  I ended up making my own table and getting a Masterlift II to mount my old PC undersized router into.  I tried using that with an external speed control to turn large horizontal panel raising bits.  To say that I was unhappy with the results would be understatement.  I tried vertical bits also and the results were a little bit better.

I got a CMS for Christmas and about two months ago tried doing some test panels with the vertical bits and the 1400 I already owned.  The results were unbelievably different   Sedge was demonstrating using vertical bits at JLC and he was also using an auxiliary taller wooden fence.  The results with the 1400 were great.  He had an interesting bit profile with a bead the came from Lee Valley.

I don't think that I will miss horizontal bits at all.  I'll probably be selling my lift soon.

Peter

 

[jeep jake]

The twin MFTs come in next, but only after I added an extension with a real vise and beefed up the table's stability.
[/quote]

pics please

 

[semenza]

Seth,

You cut the pieces to size, used butt joints (glue and Sipo dominoes), assembled, then ran a rabbet around the inside of the storms, corner chisel to square off, place glass in, then glazing compound?  No running through a router table with rail and stile bit?  I you have pictures, share them please as I have a ton of them to make.

Also, if no rail/stile joinery, what are your expectations for durability?

Thanks

Correct on the method.

As far as durability .... they have been up for several years with no issues.  Joint seem very strong when I built them.  Inch thick  x about 4" wide surface area  plus two Dominos per joint. All glued.

Nothing wrong with  the  rail and stile / router table method either though.  I really don't remember why I chose to Domino the joints. Maybe just to try it? 

Seth

 

[3PedalMINI]

I would say thats a minor understatement.... like comparing Civic to a Ferrari.

LOL more like a 75 Yugo to a 2013 Lamborghini Adventador  [tongue]

Kapex is seriously amazing. Paired with a 36mm hose and a CT series vacuum dust collection is excellent.