festool CTL dust bags
- Thread starter slimm
- Start date
You would think so, although you never seem to be able to tell from any Festool site or Festool dealer site what some items actually do or what they fit - and we end up on here asking technical stuff which really should be covered on the appropriate website.
I find Festool sites, and most Festool dealer sites, bit like mobile phone manuals - you need to know how to use the phone before you can understand the manual!
I find Festool sites, and most Festool dealer sites, bit like mobile phone manuals - you need to know how to use the phone before you can understand the manual!
You should contact Phil Beckley to see if he'll weigh in, but my semi-learned opinion is that the CTH26 and CTH48 bags will fit their CTL counterparts. FT's position may well be to tell you no, because they are different part numbers and ratings and testings - bla bla bla.
A study of the owner's manuals and ekat should lead you to conclude the only diff is the bag. And the filter - depending on the scope of delivery.
What we're talking about here amounts to just a few thousandths of a % in increased filtering with the "h" bag.
As always - caveat emptor applies.
A study of the owner's manuals and ekat should lead you to conclude the only diff is the bag. And the filter - depending on the scope of delivery.
What we're talking about here amounts to just a few thousandths of a % in increased filtering with the "h" bag.
As always - caveat emptor applies.
Which covers exactly the dust fraction you don't want to have in your air, as it is small enough to get deep into your lungs.antss said:
I still wonder why festool, who voice that their goal is providing clean air to keep the user safe, still sell non-HEPA stuff at all... as the difference in production cost should be somewhat around 10€ (or lower, depending on volume).
Gregor - the reason festool doesn't offer HEPA across the board is that it's not a one size fits all world.
HEPA would be a disaster in an AC vacuum coupled with a Planex sanding drywall. The smaller holes in the HEPA would get plugged too fast.
The suction is also decreased with a HEPA over the standard filter. Maybe not enough for most people to notice, but your mileage may vary.
And while "h" level may be warranted for sanding lead or cleaning up asbestos, most of us aren't doing that. Those that do , aren't screwing around trying to convert a product for that use. They buy a certified vac already proven to have the capability and rating. They will also wear a respirator while working.
"h" level filtration for those of us cutting wood and plastic isn't so important. Most won't notice that .005% xtra capture rating. But if you want the xtra rating - go for it. But don't fault FT for not forcing that capability on everyone.
I for one, would rather have the xtra suction than to filter out of the air another .005% of the pine, mahogany, oak and walnut dust I make. Everyone has different priorities though.
HEPA would be a disaster in an AC vacuum coupled with a Planex sanding drywall. The smaller holes in the HEPA would get plugged too fast.
The suction is also decreased with a HEPA over the standard filter. Maybe not enough for most people to notice, but your mileage may vary.
And while "h" level may be warranted for sanding lead or cleaning up asbestos, most of us aren't doing that. Those that do , aren't screwing around trying to convert a product for that use. They buy a certified vac already proven to have the capability and rating. They will also wear a respirator while working.
"h" level filtration for those of us cutting wood and plastic isn't so important. Most won't notice that .005% xtra capture rating. But if you want the xtra rating - go for it. But don't fault FT for not forcing that capability on everyone.
I for one, would rather have the xtra suction than to filter out of the air another .005% of the pine, mahogany, oak and walnut dust I make. Everyone has different priorities though.
antss said:
I was sucking up aspestos yesterday simply because an inexperience labouror disturbed some in artex, it was unplanned. Its a rare occasion and one which cant be justified by spending 800 on dedicated machine for the task. but would be reasuring to know i can sawp out the adequate bags for the job
AlexThePalex
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- Nov 12, 2008
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- 7,808
Gregor said:
You're calculating with the wrong numbers.
The amount of dust generated at the source (the tool) that is not sucked up by the vac in the first place, is much larger than the amount the vac spews back into to air through its filter.
Why bother about a 0.005% gain in the vac when you've got your 10% right under your nose?
AlexThePalex
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slimm said:
If you turn the power of the vac down, you only miss more dust at the tool.
I almost always have the vac at 100% because most tools aren't affected, only the smaller sanders like DTS, RTS and ETS125 need it.
It is very,very unlikely that plain wood dust, fine or otherwise is going to kill you. Or even shorten your lifespan. It might give you asthma.
If you think you'll be the 1 in a million unlucky lottery winner , then buy all means buy or import the cth bags. You should also be wearing a respirator at all times while your working.
But not everyone needs that level of filtration or expense when unwarranted. That's why there are half a dozen different part numbers. Buy what's best for you and your situation.
If you think you'll be the 1 in a million unlucky lottery winner , then buy all means buy or import the cth bags. You should also be wearing a respirator at all times while your working.
But not everyone needs that level of filtration or expense when unwarranted. That's why there are half a dozen different part numbers. Buy what's best for you and your situation.
The absolute amount of dust isn't that interesting in the scenario, the size of the particles is what makes them dangerous.Alex said:
Exaggerated to make the point: a whole log isn't dangerous (as long as you're not hit by it falling/rolling), but turning it into find sawdust and inhaling it is. The finer the particles the better and depper they can be inhaled, above a certain size the problem goes away.
In case it would kill instantly we wouldn't have this debate as the results would be obvious.antss said:
Fine dust is proven to be able to enter deep into the lungs, chemicals in (naturally created by the plant or later applied as treatment) or on (mold that grew on the lumber later) the wood are proven to be quite unhealthy.
Wood dust from many if not most species is, at least here in germany, rated as likely to induce cancer - with a good list of them without the likely part. The M variants of the dust extractors are required for any commercial use.
Might be different in the US, from what I have read over the years the laws there seems to be less oriented toward prevention but cling to the fantasy of employing post-mortem litigation preventing people from doing harm to others (how good that works in terminal stage capitalism is highly debateable, anecdotal evidence points into a different direction).
My point was: as the extractors differ only marginal from each other and the bottom line of the BoMs insignificant, why not only one model that offers the best protection possible? For uses where the best possible filtering gets in the way (planex where you need AC without a filter bag, whatever) the extra filters could be removeable by pressing a green plastic lever...
Bohdan
Member
The issue is not which bag you have but which filter is fitted.
In EU the L class machines are designed for normal vac use as in cleaning the carpet and the filtration is rated as "For dust with limit values > 1 mg/m³" but this carefully avoids specifying down to which particle size.
The M class machines are the ones designed for wood dust and is rated "For dust with limit values > 0.1 mg/m³" and have a warning system.
The H class for lead and asbestos. The bags are different to ensure that there is no dust escape when they are removed but
the H class filter only goes down to 1 micron.
The HEPA filter filters down to 0.3 microns "The filter material has a dust separation rate > 99.995 %".
In AU and US all of the machines are now sold with HEPA filters and they are available in the EU.
So there is no real benefit to using the H class filtration, just get a HEPA filter and use the ordinary bag.
This information was gleaned from the various Festool websites.
In EU the L class machines are designed for normal vac use as in cleaning the carpet and the filtration is rated as "For dust with limit values > 1 mg/m³" but this carefully avoids specifying down to which particle size.
The M class machines are the ones designed for wood dust and is rated "For dust with limit values > 0.1 mg/m³" and have a warning system.
The H class for lead and asbestos. The bags are different to ensure that there is no dust escape when they are removed but
the H class filter only goes down to 1 micron.
The HEPA filter filters down to 0.3 microns "The filter material has a dust separation rate > 99.995 %".
In AU and US all of the machines are now sold with HEPA filters and they are available in the EU.
So there is no real benefit to using the H class filtration, just get a HEPA filter and use the ordinary bag.
This information was gleaned from the various Festool websites.
Potato chips and Coca Cola are "likely" to make you fat also. :
Except there are a whole lot of people for which they don't.
I commend Germany for taking the high road when it comes to workplace saftey, but the best filtering capability is not always best. You seem to be on a mission to get FT to make the "h" bags standard. Good luck, not going to happen.
Bohdan - the "h" bags have more filtering capacity / smaller pore size.
Except there are a whole lot of people for which they don't.
I commend Germany for taking the high road when it comes to workplace saftey, but the best filtering capability is not always best. You seem to be on a mission to get FT to make the "h" bags standard. Good luck, not going to happen.
Bohdan - the "h" bags have more filtering capacity / smaller pore size.
No, just to get them cut the model diversification BS and make one standard hardware model -skipping the neutering of the airflow detection (in the software on the PCB, as they most likely currently do for the L models) and instead installing the two euro airflow sensor and the one euro extra knob- and include a laminated piece of paper with a table that lists which filters/bags (and their product numbers for easy order) need to be installed to reach whatever classification level one wants/needs or for the application you have in mind. Same goes for the AC feature. Most likely the higher material cost in production would be completely absorbed by having to produce and stock less different parts.antss said:
